Does Beane's serious and concerted effort to trade for AB change your perspective on Beane & OBD?

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I'm beggining to start to like Beane but he should have read the tea leaves on this situation.  It was a major miscalculation on his part . Brown wasn't coming here and other players like won't come here either until we prove to be a competent organization that wins games regularly. When I say players like him I mean divas.

 

Btw great post I agree with what u are saying .

 

 

 

I agree it makes me like Beane more. I would have loved it if they pulled it off.

 

The story is muddled, but it seems like they went about it backwards. Wouldn't you request permission to talk to Brown or Drew, get a gauge of his attitude on a potential trade, then figure out terms?

 

Both have positions of weakness if brown says he'll go, all of the sudden his value is restored in Pittsburgh's view. If you get Pittsburgh to agree to the trade, then Brown regains negotiating power. 

 

It's really a mess of situation for an outside team. I defended Brown, laughed at the situation, because I hate the Steelers, but I hope now that guy never plays a down again.

58 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

This is my thinking as well. 

 

We want "process", high character type guys***

 

*Unless that player is Lesean Mccoy.  We'll ignore his off field issues, and the precipitous drop in on field production (combined with his grossly overpaid salary). 

 

**Or that player is Antonio Brown. He's probably the biggest locker room cancer in the league right now. 

 

 

It's how the league works. You weigh talent vs some character bull####. I don't know if some of you have a bad memory but I remember Chris Kelsay's contract no thanks.

 

It's funny how much you all eat it up. It's probably Russ Brandon's last marketing gift to buffalo.

 

 

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I dont think they were that serious. Schefter said the Bills didn't think they had a decent shot at Brown and were just doing due diligence.

 

This does change my feelings about Beane a little bit. I do like that he was trying to get talent but going after a declining WR who is delusional is concerning in that he doesn't fit the culture and why get a guy whose past his prime when were arent close to contending. Its not like we need just one more guy to win the SB, we are in the middle of a major rebuild and the whole thing doesn't make sense.

 

Lol how is he declining though? Yes he’s getting older but you can’t just throw that out there with absolutely nothing to back that up. Just like you always do. It’s moronic

 

Edit: yes just emoji it instead of providing any evidence. Why the admins and mods put up with your **** i’ll never know. You do you i guess. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by JoPar_v2

[Troll Toll]

17 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

It tells me that he thinks all the top WR’s in this draft are high 2nd rd picks like I do. I wouldnt be surprised if we tried to trade for another WR’s. I’m 100% sure that AB wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL at 31 years old and Beanie then said OK.....BYE.....

 

 

 

I think it may be a little different than that... I’m thinking they recognize the BPA at 9 will likely be defense, but they could miss out on the best WRs by their 2nd round pick.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

12 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I think it may be a little different than that... I’m thinking they recognize the BPA at 9 will likely be defense, but they could miss out on the best WRs by their 2nd round pick.

The talent at WR isn't even close to BPA at DE,DT,OT or D. White.

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

No.  They have a plan and they're moving forward with it.  They got their young QB, now they're trying to put pieces around him.

 

Too bad that they threw away so many pieces before they decided to get a "young QB", including the draft pick that would have gotten them a bonafide franchise QB.  They have a young QB and an aging RB and not much else on the offensive side of the ball.  By the time the Bills collect enough productive talent to be a respectable offensive team, much less a serious playoff contender, Allen will be long past his rookie contract.

 

IMO, the proposed trade for AB was a publicity stunt on a par with Russ Brandon's bringing in Terrell Owens after the Bills had collapsed in 2008.  It was an attempt to put lipstick on a very ugly pig by going for a very big name to improve season ticket sales.  IIRC, the Bills set a season ticket record in 2009 on the hope that TO would make the Bills winners.  "Deja vue all over again" as Yogi Berra would say. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

Too bad that they threw away so many pieces before they decided to get a "young QB", including the draft pick that would have gotten them a bonafide franchise QB.  They have a young QB and an aging RB and not much else on the offensive side of the ball.  By the time the Bills collect enough productive talent to be a respectable offensive team, much less a serious playoff contender, Allen will be long past his rookie contract.

 

IMO, the proposed trade for AB was a publicity stunt on a par with Russ Brandon's bringing in Terrell Owens after the Bills had collapsed in 2008.  It was an attempt to put lipstick on a very ugly pig by going for a very big name to improve season ticket sales.  IIRC, the Bills set a season ticket record in 2009 on the hope that TO would make the Bills winners.  "Deja vue all over again" as Yogi Berra would say. 

Would you please just stop with this nonsense that every move the Bills make us somehow related to mystery financial motives?  The Pegulas have money; they want a winner.  

 

Beane did his due diligence to get a star guy here to help his young QB succeed.  The deal didn't come together.   Nor has it for any other team including the Steelers.  This is on the player and not the Bills or the other teams that looked and said no.

[Punching Bag]

19 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

In the end, I have no doubt that Beane did his due diligence on AB, heavy due diligence, and felt that the concerns are not as big as the media and fans are painting them and had confidence that his work ethic and obsession with winning would mix in well with what they want and that McD's command of the locker room would be a good environment for him.  

 

It is likely it was same situation as it was with Josh.  There was some dirty laundry out there, he researched it and determined it was not of consequence preventing a deal if terms were good.  Unfortunately with a player under contract during off season there is limited opportunity to talk with AB to determine if issue was just between WR and QB/HC or something more serious.  If they had opportunity to talk maybe AB would see changes in Bills to make him interested in Buffalo but Bills front office/coaches cannot sell Bills to him at current time.   Ideally for him he could give back the signing bonus portion for last three years and become a free agent but salaries were back loaded to make such a trade possible and he would never agree to it.

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

Here's where we are:

 

- out of salary cap hell

- top 5 defense

- franchise QB

- beaucoup draftpicks

 

what, is there another textbook I'm not reading?

 

Beane is a serious brawler.  I'm really super excited about seeing what he does from here!

[BillsSB2020]

3 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

Here's where we are:

 

- out of salary cap hell

 

I'm willing to give McBeane a shot at acquiring their guys, but this is simply not true. The only guy they probably couldn't afford to keep was Gilmore. They were also paying Tyrod like 15 mil. So you swap him out for the rookie QB of your choice and all of a sudden, you're perfectly fine cap wise.

 

You can make a case that they didn't think these players fit their system, but the salary cap thing is a misnomer. Pretty much all the good teams are in cap "trouble" every year and simply wiggle money around.

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

3 minutes ago, BillsSB2020 said:

I'm willing to give McBeane a shot at acquiring their guys, but this is simply not true. The only guy they probably couldn't afford to keep was Gilmore. They were also paying Tyrod like 15 mil. So you swap him out for the rookie QB of your choice and all of a sudden, you're perfectly fine cap wise.

 

You can make a case that they didn't think these players fit their system, but the salary cap thing is a misnomer. Pretty much all the good teams are in cap "trouble" every year and simply wiggle money around.

 

I don't understand you.  These numbers are facts.  Look it up.  We're super under the cap.

Edited March 9, 2019 by {::'KayCeeS::}

[oldmanfan]

49 minutes ago, BillsSB2020 said:

I'm willing to give McBeane a shot at acquiring their guys, but this is simply not true. The only guy they probably couldn't afford to keep was Gilmore. They were also paying Tyrod like 15 mil. So you swap him out for the rookie QB of your choice and all of a sudden, you're perfectly fine cap wise.

 

You can make a case that they didn't think these players fit their system, but the salary cap thing is a misnomer. Pretty much all the good teams are in cap "trouble" every year and simply wiggle money around.

CleRing cap space involves getting rid of guys you don't think are worth their contract.  It's not just reducing dollars to reduce dollars.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Bring back Buddy !

[Freddie's Dead]

McBeane has shown that they're willing to be bold when required.  Every move is calculated, weighing both risks and benefits.  Compare their move up to get Josh Allen with the previous move ups by other GM's, McCargo, TJumptotmakeacatch Graham, etc.  Their picks and move downs have been solid, as opposed to Marv in 2006.  With Leinart and Cutler still on the board, he could have traded down for a king's ransom, OR picked Haloti Ngata.  But he went with $hitner.  McBeane makes way better decisions than any GM we've had in the 21st century.

[BillsSB2020]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

CleRing cap space involves getting rid of guys you don't think are worth their contract.  It's not just reducing dollars to reduce dollars.

That doesn't contradict anything I said.

 

The fact is they weren't in salary cap "hell," especially if you just swapped Tyrod for a rook.

 

I like the direction and I'm cautiously optimistic they'll make good decisions, but they didn't HAVE to gut the roster. They made a calculated decision that may pay big dividends. Time will tell.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BillsSB2020 said:

That doesn't contradict anything I said.

 

The fact is they weren't in salary cap "hell," especially if you just swapped Tyrod for a rook.

 

I like the direction and I'm cautiously optimistic they'll make good decisions, but they didn't HAVE to gut the roster. They made a calculated decision that may pay big dividends. Time will tell.

They were in cap hell because they had big dollars tied up in guys that underperformed like Dareus.  So that meant they had to dump it to get the flexibility to get guys they want to keep.  So somewhat of a semantic thing.

 

They will be active in FA but likely will not pay huge bucks to one guy.  They will save some dollars to lock up and extend guys they've drafted like White and Milano.  They have said many times they feel you build through the draft primarily.  

[NoSaint]

On 3/8/2019 at 11:31 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

It didn't happen, but there's no denying now our very serious pursuit of arguably the best WR in the NFL for what likely would have been for a relatively hefty price.

 

No one really was talking about the possibility of that trade as a serious thing and I'm sure many questioned whether Brown is a Beane/McDermott type guy.

 

Does it change your perspective on Beane, what we're going to do in Free Agency, McDermott's Bills` culture and the outlook of out 2019 season?

 

I very much hoped they didn’t think they were going to win by being cheap with choir boys. 

 

You need star players and you need to take some chances.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

McBeane has shown that they're willing to be bold when required.  Every move is calculated, weighing both risks and benefits.  Compare their move up to get Josh Allen with the previous move ups by other GM's, McCargo, TJumptotmakeacatch Graham, etc.  Their picks and move downs have been solid, as opposed to Marv in 2006.  With Leinart and Cutler still on the board, he could have traded down for a king's ransom, OR picked Haloti Ngata.  But he went with $hitner.  McBeane makes way better decisions than any GM we've had in the 21st century.

 

With their only move down they passed on the MVP when they needed a QB

[LABILLBACKER]

19 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

This is my thinking as well. 

 

We want "process", high character type guys***

 

*Unless that player is Lesean Mccoy.  We'll ignore his off field issues, and the precipitous drop in on field production (combined with his grossly overpaid salary). 

 

**Or that player is Antonio Brown. He's probably the biggest locker room cancer in the league right now. 

 

 The whole idea of us trying to trade for Antonio Brown was stupid. The front office had to know that he had no intent on ever coming here, not in a million years. Hes a diva who would never play in a small market because he wouldn't get the limelight. Not to mention this prima Donna would be a huge character issue and cancer in the locker Room.  And as far as Shady's off the field issues, this will be his last season anyway, so it's moot.

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Would you please just stop with this nonsense that every move the Bills make us somehow related to mystery financial motives?  The Pegulas have money; they want a winner.  

 

Beane did his due diligence to get a star guy here to help his young QB succeed.  The deal didn't come together.   Nor has it for any other team including the Steelers.  This is on the player and not the Bills or the other teams that looked and said no.

 

Wanting a winner and being smart enough -- and committed enough -- to actually build one are entirely different creatures.  Over the last twenty years, the Bills have been neither, and NOTHING that McDermott and Beane -- or the Pegulas -- have done during their tenures indicates that there's been any serious change in the team's philosophy despite all the personnel changes from top to bottom of the organization.

 

1.  The Bills have tried the "trade for  a big name vet after stripping the team of talent"  twice before when  Donahoe traded for Drew Bledsoe in 2002 and Brandon traded for Terrell Owens in 2009. 

2.  The  Bills have alternatively attempted to placate/excite their fan base with big FA signings: in 2007 they signed Derrick Dockery and Langston to big FA contracts after repeated criticism of their OL, and in 2012 they signed Mario Williams after Chan Gailey's 2011 team proved incapable of stopping anybody. 

3.  They've traded away draft capital repeatedly to chase after questionable QB prospects:

•  -- in 1998, they traded first and fourth round picks for Rob Johnson after he played 1 NFL game;
•  -- in 2004, they traded a first, a second, and a fifth round pick to move up to grab JP Losman;
• -- in 2018, they traded a virtual fortune in talent and picks to move into the top ten to draft Josh Allen

4.  The Bills shed talented players that they drafted/developed rather than pay them their market value under Pegula/Beane/McDermott just as they had done repeatedly under Wilson/Donahoe/Brandon.

 

You can believe that Pegula/Beane/McDermott are somehow different from previous Bills regimes and they're on track to become winners, but I'm long past "Billieving" in this team until they actually field winning, playoff contending teams with regularity ... and 1 playoff appearance and 3 winning records in the last 19 seasons just ain't good enough to count.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SoTier

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Wanting a winner and being smart enough -- and committed enough -- to actually build one are entirely different creatures.  Over the last twenty years, the Bills have been neither, and NOTHING that McDermott and Beane -- or the Pegulas -- have done during their tenures indicates that there's been any serious change in the team's philosophy despite all the personnel changes from top to bottom of the organization.

 

1.  The Bills have tried the "trade for  a big name vet after stripping the team of talent"  twice before when  Donahoe traded for Drew Bledsoe in 2002 and Brandon traded for Terrell Owens in 2009. 

2.  The  Bills have alternatively attempted to placate/excite their fan base with big FA signings: in 2007 they signed Derrick Dockery and Langston to big FA contracts after repeated criticism of their OL, and in 2012 they signed Mario Williams after Chan Gailey's 2011 team proved incapable of stopping anybody. 

3.  They've traded away draft capital repeatedly to chase after questionable QB prospects:

•  -- in 1998, they traded first and fourth round picks for Rob Johnson after he played 1 NFL game;
•  -- in 2004, they traded a first, a second, and a fifth round pick to move up to grab JP Losman;
• -- in 2018, they traded a virtual fortune in talent and picks to move into the top ten to draft Josh Allen

4.  The Bills shed talented players that they drafted/developed rather than pay them their market value under Pegula/Beane/McDermott just as they had done repeatedly under Wilson/Donahoe/Brandon.

 

You can believe that Pegula/Beane/McDermott are somehow different from previous Bills regimes and they're on track to become winners, but I'm long past "Billieving" in this team until they actually field winning, playoff contending teams with regularity ... and 1 playoff appearance and 3 winning records in the last 19 seasons just ain't good enough to count.

You're delusional.  You insist on assuming a new owner with billions of dollars is the same owner as Ralph.  And the current front office cut previous draftees because they didn't see them as a fit.  They are not cutting their own guys.