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Is an Ivy League education much better than public universities/colleges?


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48 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Going to a IVY school doesn’t mean success. That’s what I take away from it.  

You can take the top 10 schools from the non Ivy and get just as good results.  

Did you go to one?  

 

I'm not an Ivy grad but I have a great deal of familiarity with the programs (and the near Ivys like Chicago, which is the best of the bunch, IMO) through colleagues, recruiting and hiring.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Here’s an idea: Have your kid go to school, learn something that interests them, and if you can help them financially to attain some semblance of success, good work Mom and Dad. 

 

Absolutely.  Do something you’re great at and you absolutely love doing, and you’ll never WORK a day in your life.

 

I’ve met many a UB grad who can talk circles around me.

 

(It’s the Dartmouth guys that really get under my skin. ?)

.

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6 hours ago, Mark80 said:

I went to Cornell.  I passed classes that I attended less than 5 times and studied for maybe one day for mid terms and finals when they came up.  I also took classes such as Gamelan where I got 3 credit hours and an easy A for playing gongs.  I mean, our final project was a concert on a gorgeous May day in Ithaca sitting Indian style on one of the quads.  I had great professors, I had bad professors.  Some classes were tougher than others, but overall, if you were just concerned with passing with a decent GPA, you didn't really have to do much, at least I didn't.  I imagine its not much different from most well run Universities.

 

This is probably very true.  I got into a much better law school than I should have based on my GPA.  I'm sure this and a good LSAT were the reason.

You must be brilliant!!!

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5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

It's all in who you know. Just don't spend $400,000 on college and end up with a Gender Studies degree.

Cornell is an excellent value. It is half state-assisted (a state school), half private, but the same general studies are offered to the public and private students. Cornell also has very good tuition packages. 

 

I have a nephew with a VERY expensive degree from Rhode Islanbd School of Design. Around $300k I think.  Certainly one of the top art schools in the whole country. He’s extremely talented and has spent many years earning a living painting.......mostly houses and apartments while living in a tiny rental in Brooklyn. 

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6 hours ago, Mark80 said:

I went to Cornell.  I passed classes that I attended less than 5 times and studied for maybe one day for mid terms and finals when they came up.

 

So, during ‘reading week’, you finally cracked the textbook, and headed to Uris Library to watch 13 weeks of lectures?

 

6 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

  I also took classes such as Gamelan where I got 3 credit hours and an easy A for playing gongs.  I mean, our final project was a concert on a gorgeous May day in Ithaca sitting Indian style on one of the quads.

 

We had no Gamelan, no gongs.  All we had on the quad was frisbee, and dogs.

 

Maybe it’s easier now but, for me, it was brutal.

 

(BTW, we beat St. Lawrence 4-2 yesterday - will clinch 1st in ECAC with a win over Clarkson tonight.  Not that it means much - all 12 teams make the tourney.  Kinda makes me wonder why we play the other 22 games.)

.

 

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I was always under the impression that Ivy League schools were more likely to pay off as a grad school, not so much as an undergrad. I know people who went to state schools for undergrad, then went to Ivy League grad schools. Ivy League med school, law school, business school, etc. is where the big advantage comes in.  And the advantage has a lot to do with contacts rather than academics. 

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13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

It's all in who you know. Just don't spend $400,000 on college and end up with a Gender Studies degree.

Cornell is an excellent value. It is half state-assisted (a state school), half private, but the same general studies are offered to the public and private students. Cornell also has very good tuition packages. 

 

I was fortunate enough to get almost ‘full boat’ at one of the endowed (private)) colleges thru Regents, National Merit, and University scholarships.  Had to earn about $2K/academic year on my own.

 

Then again, total cost of tuition, room, board, books, incidentals were between $7-8K/year when I wore a backpack.

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1 hour ago, mead107 said:

I still believe that 50% of kids that go to college wasted a lot of money.  Not everyone can make it to the top. Saw it at GE.  They got away from bringing people off the floor into management.  

Just because you went to an Ivy League college or any other college  doesn’t make you smart. 

I know a lot of people that started their own business and made a ton of money. 

 

Get kids back into shop class. We need good trades people. 

 

Ya know, why is it that I can turn on the TV any hour of day or night and find Cellino & Barnes, Phil Mattar, or Honest Jed trying to get me to sue someone, but I can’t find a decent carpenter or plumber?

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Edited by The Senator
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10 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

So, during ‘reading week’, you finally cracked the textbook, and headed to Uris Library to watch 13 weeks of lectures?

 

 

We had no Gamelan, no gongs.  All we had on the quad was frisbee, and dogs.

 

Maybe it’s easier now but, for me, it was brutal.

 

(BTW, we beat St. Lawrence 4-2 yesterday - will clinch 1st in ECAC with a win over Clarkson tonight.  Not that it means much - all 12 teams make the tourney.  Kinda makes me wonder why we play the other 22 games.)

.

 

  One class I had permission was granted to miss lecture as long as I secured notes.  Attending lab was mandatory on the other hand.  My advisor was strict and any classes I had with him were often difficult.  Also, my advisor had a habit of having his secretary call my residence house at the start of a semester to arrange a sit-down as to what I was going to take for a semester.  Did not ask when I would be available but just set a time and was told to be there!  

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I read an article a few years ago that stated admissions to top schools are:

 

1/3 each of legacies, intellectual achievers and (something like) set-asides. Set-asides are people who get in that do not have the $$ of legacies or the mind of the achievers and include athletes, quotas, artists or other prescribed student populations that are deemed important to the community.

 

j would hope that a child who is an honest achiever would get a chance to shine. Everyone thinks their child is one of these.

 

The worst situation is a set-aside who is trying and winds up in group projects with legacies, the “Gentleman’s C-grading” set that is wasting time at school till they join a career waiting for them since the cradle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

So, during ‘reading week’, you finally cracked the textbook, and headed to Uris Library to watch 13 weeks of lectures?

 

 

We had no Gamelan, no gongs.  All we had on the quad was frisbee, and dogs.

 

Maybe it’s easier now but, for me, it was brutal.

 

(BTW, we beat St. Lawrence 4-2 yesterday - will clinch 1st in ECAC with a win over Clarkson tonight.  Not that it means much - all 12 teams make the tourney.  Kinda makes me wonder why we play the other 22 games.)

.

 

 

When I was there, most classes had a service available where you could pay to get the lecture notes.  Also, most lecture PPT slides were available online.  Finally, my major (ILR) was a lot of stuff repeated year after year after year in various classes.  I mean, how many levels of Organizational Behavior classes do you really need?  Same with Labor Law and Collective Bargaining classes.  The 400 level classes were basically the same as the 100 and 200 level ones.

 

Also, I never claimed to get high grades or anything.  I had friends in the Engineering school who had 4.0+ GPAs.  They worked way harder than I did and it was reflected in their grades.  I was fine getting by with my High 2s Low 3s. 

12 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

You must be brilliant!!!

 

Nah, I just learned at a young age how to manipulate schooling to make it as easy as possible.  And, just because I crammed and learned things in one day, doesn't mean I retained it for more than that day or two!

Edited by Mark80
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1 hour ago, row_33 said:

I read an article a few years ago that stated admissions to top schools are:

 

1/3 each of legacies, intellectual achievers and (something like) set-asides. Set-asides are people who get in that do not have the $$ of legacies or the mind of the achievers and include athletes, quotas, artists or other prescribed student populations that are deemed important to the community.

 

j would hope that a child who is an honest achiever would get a chance to shine. Everyone thinks their child is one of these.

 

The worst situation is a set-aside who is trying and winds up in group projects with legacies, the “Gentleman’s C-grading” set that is wasting time at school till they join a career waiting for them since the cradle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean not to make this into a whole political crap show but George W Bush’s SAT scores were 150 points below the average for Yale freshman admits that year.  

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Not sure how true this still is but I was told that Ivy League schools have extension programs, essentially night school, where you get the same diploma for a lot less money. And it's easier getting in. Anyone know about this?

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14 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Here’s an idea: Have your kid go to school, learn something that interests them, and if you can help them financially to attain some semblance of success, good work Mom and Dad. 

Right on! My two year tech school associates degree, and my passion for my field has taken me a long way.

 

I am the luckiest man I know in that regard. I am making good money, doing what I wanted to do from age 5 on. Drawing pictures of airplanes ?

 

Unfortunately, my kids have no such passion.

Edited by BUFFALOKIE
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2 hours ago, Another Fan said:

I mean not to make this into a whole political crap show but George W Bush’s SAT scores were 150 points below the average for Yale freshman admits that year.  

  Except that you wanted to make it a crap show.  George W Bush is one of many who got a seat because of legacy.  It happens to people from a wide variety of backgrounds.  I know of a person who got into Cornell strictly because her father could throw an immense amount of weight  around over being admitted.  She clearly lacked the grades and background for her chosen field of study to be admitted based on her credentials.  

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22 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

You make connections for life at Ivys...worth a ton. 

its all about networking.  My sister has her JD MBA and did all her schooling Ivy League.  The school debt is burdensome.  But like you state, it is all about the connections,

 

Hell I subscribe the Stamford, Yale, and Royal Institution channels and watch all the lectures.  But I don't have those networking connections you get with Ivy league

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13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Except that you wanted to make it a crap show.  George W Bush is one of many who got a seat because of legacy.  It happens to people from a wide variety of backgrounds.  I know of a person who got into Cornell strictly because her father could throw an immense amount of weight  around over being admitted.  She clearly lacked the grades and background for her chosen field of study to be admitted based on her credentials.  

 

Yup.  My roommate for my first 2 years at Cornell was a legacy and had no business being there.  Nice guy but struggled to pass every class.

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