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Alphadawg7

Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

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44 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i dunno. at this point i'd be real hesitant to trade Zay. i believe he is going to be the beneficiary of having not only an upgraded Oline but an NFL receiving corps along side him. with JBrown, CBeasley and RFoster out there, Zay will not be seeing the opposing teams top CB. with that said however, if Gettleman comes calling, you have to at least listen to what he thinks and might offer.

 

That could be a good point actually where he will see lesser DBs out there.  He struggled majorly against teams top corners last year.  Maybe he can’t handle the better corners but could shine against the opponents 2nd or 3rd corner.  Kind of like Robert Woods wasn’t quite good enough to be a #1 and face the opponents top DB each week but is flourishing in LA with guys like Cooks and Watkins drawing the top DB the last two seasons there.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

That could be a good point actually where he will see lesser DBs out there.  He struggled majorly against teams top corners last year.  Maybe he can’t handle the better corners but could shine against the opponents 2nd or 3rd corner.  Kind of like Robert Woods wasn’t quite good enough to be a #1 and face the opponents top DB each week but is flourishing in LA with guys like Cooks and Watkins drawing the top DB the last two seasons there.

i don't know that, 'struggled majorly' is a pejorative term i would use in regard here. i think there were many factors that parlayed into what we saw last year. a weak Oline, substandard overall receiving corps, a bad QB in Peterman and a rookie QB in Allen and no overall consistency. i think with improvements across all those areas i mentioned, we will be better able to get a more accurate gauge of who Zay really is. i do agree though that he is not a #1, but i am real interested in seeing how he makes out this year.

Edited by Foxx
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37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

That could be a good point actually where he will see lesser DBs out there.  He struggled majorly against teams top corners last year.  Maybe he can’t handle the better corners but could shine against the opponents 2nd or 3rd corner.  Kind of like Robert Woods wasn’t quite good enough to be a #1 and face the opponents top DB each week but is flourishing in LA with guys like Cooks and Watkins drawing the top DB the last two seasons there.

Maybe he had crap for QBs while here.

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1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

I haven’t heard of either person in those tweets. Are they well respected?

Marcel is the new ESPN reporter for the Bills

 

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51 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Maybe he had crap for QBs while here.

 

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

i don't know that, 'struggled majorly' is a pejorative term i would use in regard here. i think there were many factors that parlayed into what we saw last year. a weak Oline, substandard overall receiving corps, a bad QB in Peterman and a rookie QB in Allen and no overall consistency. i think with improvements across all those areas i mentioned, we will be better able to get a more accurate gauge of who Zay really is. i do agree though that he is not a #1, but i am real interested in seeing how he makes out this year.

 

In 3 of his last 4 games last year when Allen was playing better he was dominated badly by Jets, Lions and Pats.  Like physically dominated, pushed off his routes, etc.  He struggled a lot with press coverage and opposing teams top CBs.  It’s easy to give him a pass on the QBs, it’s a whole other thing to watch him struggle against opponents top opposition and struggle to beat the press, separate, and be taken out of games.  

 

Im pulling for him, but he earned his criticisms on the field both of the last 2 seasons.  

 

Good news is Zay recognized that (or his coaches did) and spent the offseason getting stronger.  Hoping it translates on the field to him taking his game to a new level.  

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On 5/31/2019 at 5:13 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I hope the Bills don't plan on playing Zay more than Foster. That would be a big mistake.

 

It's going to depend upon what they see.  Look, I like Foster.  I hope he becomes everything that John Brown is now.  He's got what you can't coach (speed) and it sounds like he's receptive to coaching and mentoring. 

But the fact is, he's very raw.  Last year he ran inconsistent routes.  He didn't necessarily diagnose the D and run his correct route option.  He struggled sometimes tracking the ball - sometimes looked back and lost a step and was overthrown.  Sometimes let the ball go through his hands.  He improved after being cut and put on practice squad, so it was motivational for him.  Right now, he's primarily a deep threat and doesn't have a full route tree.

He'll get the playing time he shows he deserves, and so will Zay, and it won't be a mistake however it falls.
 

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

In 3 of his last 4 games last year when Allen was playing better he was dominated badly by Jets, Lions and Pats.  Like physically dominated, pushed off his routes, etc.  He struggled a lot with press coverage and opposing teams top CBs.  It’s easy to give him a pass on the QBs, it’s a whole other thing to watch him struggle against opponents top opposition and struggle to beat the press, separate, and be taken out of games.  

 

Im pulling for him, but he earned his criticisms on the field both of the last 2 seasons.  

 

Good news is Zay recognized that (or his coaches did) and spent the offseason getting stronger.  Hoping it translates on the field to him taking his game to a new level.  

 

You're correct.  He also ran different routes than Allen expected at times (I'm not saying wrong - not sure which of them was correct given the D).
 

It may matter that Zay, due to various surgeries, did not have the off-season to get stronger last year.  In fact I think he lost strength and lost a step.

Hopefully he gained strength and recovered that step this off season.

I do feel this is a "fish or cut bait" year for Zay.  He's got to level up his game or the Bills have to move on.

 

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Posted (edited)

Oh no...........it's the Zay Jones thread again.....

Image result for bad taste gif
Edited by HOUSE
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3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

That could be a good point actually where he will see lesser DBs out there.  He struggled majorly against teams top corners last year.  Maybe he can’t handle the better corners but could shine against the opponents 2nd or 3rd corner.  Kind of like Robert Woods wasn’t quite good enough to be a #1 and face the opponents top DB each week but is flourishing in LA with guys like Cooks and Watkins drawing the top DB the last two seasons there.

 

That's what I'm expecting. Currently I see Zay's projection to that of Josh Reed. Be a #3 receiver just fine, but will disappear against stronger competition.

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3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Maybe he had crap for QBs while here.

He was not a TT fan, so I think Woods would agree with you. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

In 3 of his last 4 games last year when Allen was playing better he was dominated badly by Jets, Lions and Pats.  Like physically dominated, pushed off his routes, etc.  He struggled a lot with press coverage and opposing teams top CBs.  It’s easy to give him a pass on the QBs, it’s a whole other thing to watch him struggle against opponents top opposition and struggle to beat the press, separate, and be taken out of games.  

 

Im pulling for him, but he earned his criticisms on the field both of the last 2 seasons.  

 

Good news is Zay recognized that (or his coaches did) and spent the offseason getting stronger.  Hoping it translates on the field to him taking his game to a new level.  

Im talking about Woods there guy.  As to your statement concerning Zay, that is why he added muscle mass and he will definitely be on the roster and on the field week 1.

Edited by formerlyofCtown

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8 hours ago, K-9 said:

He was not a TT fan, so I think Woods would agree with you. 

 

No cos Tyrod wasted two years of Woods's career by turning him into an auxiliary right tackle  

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

So he’s not getting cut like folks was promising me lol

 

Um whoever said he was getting cut?  Not me, nothing in my OP or any post after.  I started this thread and even said he would not be cut.  I thought he could be a trade candidate in preseason.  It was pretty silly if anyone else suggested he would be cut.  

Edited by Alphadawg7

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7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Per Adam Caplan

 

I'm sure the coaches will all be glad to know that they can just close up training camp and go home now.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sure the coaches will all be glad to know that they can just close up training camp and go home now.

 

 

To be fair that's a pretty safe guess to make there's a good chance that might be what happens.

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Just now, Warcodered said:

To be fair that's a pretty safe guess to make there's a good chance that might be what happens.

 

I agree that right now, there's a good chance that's how it shakes down, but I don't think it's "set in stone" quite yet.

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6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Um whoever said he was getting cut?  Not me, nothing in my OP or any post after.  I started this thread and even said he would not be cut.  I thought he could be a trade candidate in preseason.  It was pretty silly if anyone else suggested he would be cut.  

 

 

Very true. You are set up to be to be somewhat less wrong than anyone who thought he'd be cut.

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:36 PM, FeelingOnYouboty said:

So he’s not getting cut like folks was promising me lol

Which folks was promising you?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2019 at 6:26 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

In 3 of his last 4 games last year when Allen was playing better he was dominated badly by Jets, Lions and Pats.  Like physically dominated, pushed off his routes, etc.  He struggled a lot with press coverage and opposing teams top CBs.  It’s easy to give him a pass on the QBs, it’s a whole other thing to watch him struggle against opponents top opposition and struggle to beat the press, separate, and be taken out of games.  

 

Im pulling for him, but he earned his criticisms on the field both of the last 2 seasons.  

 

Good news is Zay recognized that (or his coaches did) and spent the offseason getting stronger.  Hoping it translates on the field to him taking his game to a new level.  

 

 

That's just nonsense. I credit you for being consistent, but that's about all. He played quite well the last two games, getting open even when he wasn't thrown to.

 

He improved a lot the second half of the season after missing a lot of his offseason work in both of his first two years. That was seen by nearly everyone, certainly including the FO. You wanna ignore it, that's fine, but the people who know what they were expecting from him were happy.

 

He did earn his criticism, particularly in the first half of the year. In the second half there just wasn't much criticism except from you and a few others on these boards. Yeah, fair enough that he got owned by Slay, an elite CB but in the other games he was very solid.

 

As for others who got owned by Slay the last couple of years you'd have to count Stefon Diggs, Mike Evans (2 catches for 25 yards) and Julio Jones among others. If getting taken out of the game by Slay means you aren't good, just about nobody in the league covered by him would be considered good. Hell, Antonio Brown was thrown to a way above average 15 times against Slay in 2017 and had a below average day of it in spite of all those targets, and his one big catch, a 30-yarder came when Slay was elsewhere. Beckham had four catches for 36 yards against Slay in 2017.

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2019 at 4:35 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

For a refresher and clarity since this thread was started 6 months ago:  I never said he wouldn’t make roster as in get cut.  I posted in the original post I felt he would be a trade candidate in preseason with a deeper WR group providing better competition as I wasn’t confident in him stepping up against said better competition. 

 

And like I said before, I stand by how I felt the day I wrote this post, I will be very happy to be wrong and Zay becomes a good starting WR.  Actually pulling for him, nothing personal against him, just was very disappointed in his overall body of work going into the offseason, including last year.  

 

 

 

You may not hate the guy but many of your posts here have been a lot more personal and frankly wacky than you're trying to appear here. Quick example:

 

 

On 2/28/2019 at 12:54 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

More from McD:

 

“At the end of the day I’m looking for a guy that can affect a defense, from a matchup standpoint, and a guy that people have to be mindful of,” McDermott said. “Other than that I want them to get open, catch the ball and put the ball down - and then come back and do it again.”

 

Hmmmmm...how many of these traits are strengths of Zay that McD wants from his WR's?

  1. Affect a defense from a matchup standpoint:  Nope
  2. A guy that people have to be mindful of:  Nope
  3. Gets open:  Nope
  4. Catch the ball:  Nope
  5. Come back and do it again (consistency):  Nope

 

Apparently, the guy can't do anything.

 

You've gone way out into the wackzone with the "You can't count this play because I would rather you didn't even though it happened" nonsense that is one of the first calling cards of people with an unbalanced stance on any issue.

 

Your idea that he didn't get better in the second half - repeated again and again along with a number of plays that we should pretend didn't happen - has also been pretty bizarre.

 

If you'd really only said what you refer to in your post here, it would have been a somewhat improbable but unwacky stance. But you've gone well beyond that, and that's what has been wacky. It sure has looked like you're not pulling for him, though obviously nobody but you can speak to that.

 

Edited by Thurman#1
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1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

As for others who got owned by Slay the last couple of years you'd have to count Stefon Diggs, Mike Evans (2 catches for 25 yards) and Julio Jones among others. If getting taken out of the game by Slay means you aren't good, just about nobody in the league covered by him would be considered good. Hell, Antonio Brown was thrown to a way above average 15 times against Slay in 2017 and had a below average day of it in spite of all those targets, and his one big catch, a 30-yarder came when Slay was elsewhere. Beckham had four catches for 36 yards against Slay in 2017.

 

Yea. Slay is just really, really, really freaking good. The lack of national media attention he gets because he plays for the Lions just proves how much the NFL media coverage plays to the big "fashionable" markets. 

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7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's just nonsense. I credit you for being consistent, but that's about all. He played quite well the last two games, getting open even when he wasn't thrown to.

 

He improved a lot the second half of the season after missing a lot of his offseason work in both of his first two years. That was seen by nearly everyone, certainly including the FO. You wanna ignore it, that's fine, but the people who know what they were expecting from him were happy.

 

He did earn his criticism, particularly in the first half of the year. In the second half there just wasn't much criticism except from you and a few others on these boards. Yeah, fair enough that he got owned by Slay, an elite CB but in the other games he was very solid.

 

As for others who got owned by Slay the last couple of years you'd have to count Stefon Diggs, Mike Evans (2 catches for 25 yards) and Julio Jones among others. If getting taken out of the game by Slay means you aren't good, just about nobody in the league covered by him would be considered good. Hell, Antonio Brown was thrown to a way above average 15 times against Slay in 2017 and had a below average day of it in spite of all those targets, and his one big catch, a 30-yarder came when Slay was elsewhere. Beckham had four catches for 36 yards against Slay in 2017.

 

 

 

All good man, but I got to say stop reading stat sheets and watch the NE game.  He was terrible and had 0 catches for 0 yards until the game was over with about 6 min left in the game when NE was up 3 scores and played soft to chew clock.  He was completely taken out of the NE game and did not play well.  But a few late catches when game was over a gimme TD on last play of a 3 score blow out made his stat sheet look productive.  

 

I have a MUCH higher standard than that.  Again, he was utterly useless in 3 straight games before the final Miami game.  Nothing against Jets, Lions or Pats until he got a few mercy catches against a soft D allowing clock to run to end a blow out game.  

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You may not hate the guy but many of your posts here have been a lot more personal and frankly wacky than you're trying to appear here. Quick example:

 

 

 

Apparently, the guy can't do anything.

 

You've gone way out into the wackzone with the "You can't count this play because I would rather you didn't even though it happened" nonsense that is one of the first calling cards of people with an unbalanced stance on any issue.

 

Your idea that he didn't get better in the second half - repeated again and again along with a number of plays that we should pretend didn't happen - has also been pretty bizarre.

 

If you'd really only said what you refer to in your post here, it would have been a somewhat improbable but unwacky stance. But you've gone well beyond that, and that's what has been wacky. It sure has looked like you're not pulling for him, though obviously nobody but you can speak to that.

 

 

Everything I wrote in that list was a fair assessment about his first two seasons, without question.

 

Does NOT mean he cant improve, never said he couldn't take a step forward.  I said I lack the confidence in him doing so and have questioned his mental toughness to be counted on as he hasn't dealt well with adversary at times and has come up short in key moments multiple times that directly affected our ability to win games in both seasons.  

 

But sorry, these are facts about this first 2 full seasons:  Struggled BAD with catching, inconsistent on his routes, struggle mightily with press coverage, wildly inconsistent and would disappear for long stretches of games (22 of his 31 career games has less than 40 yards receiving despite starting all of them), has not been a guy defenses had to game plan for (has zero 100 yard games), struggled getting separation consistently (even been noted by the coaches over that 2 year span).  

 

He may or may not become a good player for us, he may or may not be on this roster week 1...and honestly, he is certainly trending in all the right directions, and thats good news for all of us.  I don't care if I was wrong in my doubts about his ability to step up, I really sincerely hope he proves to be a long term great player for us.  But there is no doubt my criticisms were warranted at the time they were made and accurate.  He has one of the worst catch rates of any starter over the last 2 years in the NFL and has failed to make any real impact in about 75% of his career games including 2/3's of his 2018 games.  

 

I simply took my criticisms and tried to the future on how McD and Beane would address the WR position in the offseason and what I thought that could mean for Zay and made a bold prediction.  I knew the prediction was bold when I made it, but at the end of the day, I don't care if I am right, I would rather be wrong.  I bleed this team, and I just want the best roster on the field, and if he proves to be part of that group then thats great for all of us and I am cheering for that to happen.  

 

And with Josh's late season surge, Zay only had 2 good games in 6 with Josh.  There other 4 he was completely non existent, including the Pats game where I already explained he was shut down until the end of the game when Pats played softer D to chew the clock when game was out of reach.  So sorry, the 2nd half thing should really just say, he had 2 good games against a bad Fins team and that was about it over the last 6 games.  

 

But its all good man, I knew there would be strong opposition to it when I wrote, and thats all great stuff.  You and others have had lots of great dialogue back and forth and enjoyed the ride.

Edited by Alphadawg7

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To anyone complaining about Josh Allen's QB play....

 

 

 

 

 

You could still be stuck with TieRod Taylor 

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