Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

You and your 5 course meals. Fatty.

Dude, I’m surprised you even got that out considering all of the haymakers you’ve been receiving.

 

Lol, that was legit funny, I can appreciate a good burn...even if inaccurate, I still laughed

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Thanks for the Cliff notes, I guess. Unfortunately, the Cliff notes are still nutty.

 

You keep going on about how his last games were bad. Again, you ought to go work on trying to convince Beane of that, because he obviously sees better than you do and made it very clear that he disagrees with you. And - again - when he made that statement to the reporters at the PC ...

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

... there was nothing but head-shakes and agreement. You disagree. That says more about you than it does about Zay. You're seeing this differently from everyone else, dude. And while this could mean you're just way way smarter than anyone on the Bills staff, even though they knew the plays, what the reads were, what the game plans were and what they wanted from Zay, it probably doesn't. I mean, maybe you're way way smarter than them. But that's really really unlikely. When a guy disagrees with everyone, including the people with the most info ... he's usually just wrong.

 

And I get that you'd like to see me stop recycling the same arguments. But you've been recycling the same daft supporting arguments for nearly 60 pages now. If you stop recycling, I'd certainly consider it myself. But you won't. This whole thread has been lovingly tended and maintained by you with the constant repetition of your wacky support.

 

Again, the main idea of the thread - that Zay might get traded - was always quite unlikely but certainly possible. If that had been all you said, I'd never have posted here, beyond maybe a sentence like "could happen but the chances are seriously low". But you followed it with constant nuttiness ... that Zay wasn't getting a great deal better the last half of the year despite the stats, Beane, McDermott and the pundits all disagreeing with you. You actually had to go with the saddest argument of all on that one ... "go watch the games," as if Beane, McDermott and virtually everyone disagreeing with you had been going after marlin in the gulf last fall and had never gotten around to seeing the tape. Absolutely zany and screwy.

 

You've recycled the constant mentions of that pointless Josh Allen fan video labelled drops but actually containing a ton of bad throws and good defensive plays. As if being on a fan video was a good argument about anything. Just silly.

 

You keep recycling the idea that only his games with Josh count, and that therefore you can ignore all Zay's other good games that weren't with Josh. You've pulled this in this post, but literally dozens of times before in the thread. Zay improved a great deal the second half. The fact that Josh was out for some of those good games has nothing to do with Zay. It only makes it wildly clear that you've got an agenda and that if facts don't fit it, you're willing to ignore them.

 

You keep saying "stats don't mean anything, you have to watch the games" when somebody posts good stats ... and then you post bad stats and act as if you've told the whole story. It's a receiver's job to get open, make catches and go for YAC. And to block. And to run as parts of plays. What's NOT a receiver's job is to see a ball thrown to somebody else and go over and steal it. Sometimes, game plans go mostly away from one WR and he can have a good game anyway, getting open but not being thrown to and blocking downfield.

 

You've got an agenda. You're daffily ignoring everything that doesn't fit with it. And it looks like you're going to continue recycling this flaky stuff while expecting me not to continue pointing it out. I'll feel completely free to keep pointing out your recycling. But hey, if you stop with the loony tunes stuff, I'll have nothing to point out ... if your post had been only the last four (very reasonable) paragraphs, I'd have had no real complaints. Instead, the whole top was more wackiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the most devastating take down I’ve ever seen on this board. 

[Jay_Fixit]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Lol, that was legit funny, I can appreciate a good burn...even if inaccurate, I still laughed

Inaccurate like most of the throws towards Zay that are counted as “targets?”

[HappyDays]

Zay will make the team, no question, but I'm not hearing that he's making any noise in training camp. I feel like he'll be the same player this year - just a guy on the field that is close to replacement level and offers nothing special to the offense. He doesn't make any spectacular plays or have any defining traits. I hope he proves me wrong.

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Inaccurate like most of the throws towards Zay that are counted as “targets?”

 

You mean like the 9 balls that hit him in the hands in the Josh Allen drops video?  Lmao at the excuses for balls falling out of his hands

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Bills fan in 561 said:

I think Zay was only credited to 3 drops last year

 

For the whole year? He definitely had more than 3 drops the whole year. Maybe in one game you meant?

Edited August 2, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:21 PM, freddyjj said:

Was at camp today and have to say Robert Foster might be the better bet to not be on the roster Opening Day.

 

Say more, please?

 

[Alphadawg7]

Ok, apparently I need to actually properly address your post here now that I am back from PT.  

 

   On 7/31/2019 at 11:57 PM,  Alphadawg7 said: 

 

Sorry...its fact that he is in the bottom of the NFL starting WR's in catch percentage and drops over his 2 year career, (yup, yet more of the nutso stuff where you 1) pretend that catch percentage has nothing to do with the poor QBs as well as the WRs, and  2) keep having to throw in his admittedly poorer first year and a half and ignore the fact that he got a lot better the last half of the  year) and was in both seasons, not just one.  Thats a statistical fact, not an opinion. (Yeah, a statistical fact that's irrelevant to how he greatly improved the last half of the year)  Its a statistical fact that he only had 2 strong games with Josh over the last 6 games when Josh came back from injury (Dude, you keep doing it and doing it, but this is yet another example in this thread of you calling a bald-faced stupid opinion a fact. Facts and opinions are different. And what you have there is an opinion. An opinion that Beane strongly disagrees with).  Not an opinion, fact. (Yeah, um, no.)  He produced nothing in 3 of them, and produced nothing in the Pats game (0 catches for 0 yards until the final minutes of the game when down several scores and Pats played soft to chew clock).  These aren't opinions, these are facts. (*)  Its also a fact that he shows up in the 5 min Josh Allen drops video (you keep bringing up that video ... it's something some doofy fan made and it features drops, poor throws, and great defensive plays) way too many times at 9 times, and this is only the games Josh played in.

 

There are NO facts in what you said above, none.  You are claiming opinion to be fact.  Facts are he had 2 productive games out of the last 6 with a healthy Josh...TWO.  I already posted the stats of all 6 games, which you ignore and just make false claims he was good.  His ONLY 2 games where he was productive were both Miami games and in the first Miami game we lost, he DROPPED a critical pass on the final drive that basically sealed our fate that would have given us a first down in the red zone just prior to the Clay drop.  The NE game he did NOTHING until the final minutes of the game...literally 0 catches and was completely taken out of that game until NE played soft to chew clock up several scores.  Thats not a "good" game by any means.  

 

Its also a fact that both McD and Beane said multiple times heading into the offseason they need to get WRs who can get open and catch (Irrelevant, but true ... they showed they did need receivers, and they've also showed that they like Zay and that he appears to be in their plans. That's a total swing and a miss.) 

 

WRONG:  Beane said multiple times, but specifically on February 28th of the offseason (when we only had Zay, Foster and McKenzie still on the roster from guys who played down the stretch):  This was in response to the guys STILL on the roster at the WR position and if he felt they had solved the starting WR roles:  "I think we have some different flavors there, but to say we've solved that, I can't sit here and say that we have.  I think we've got some guys that have shown flashes of what they can they do, BUT WE NEED SOMEONE THATS ACCONTABLE THAT CAN DO IT FOR THE WHOLE SEASON, and can these guys do it?"

 

Literally stated he wants guys who are accountable and do it the WHOLE season!  He would then add. " We're trying to create competition, and add as much value, and let the best man win".  

 

Him and McD would say in other interviews they want guys who consistently get separation and consistently catch the ball in clips from the combine and other offseason sound bites related to the WR position.  All of these quotes came AFTER your press conference clip where Beane said that after Zay had his best game of his career in week 17 against Miami (and it wasn't even that great, just multi TD game against a team that didnt even show up).

...Zay was a 2 year starter under McD and a starter all last season.  Considering he struggled getting open consistently and had too many drops, (*) I think its safe to say he was talking about him too.  Its also a fact that Zay has less than 40 yards in 10 games last year and less than 40 yards in 22 of his career 31 games.  Its also a fact an UDFA WR has 3 100 yard games in his last 7 games and Zay has 0 in 31 career games. (Yes, but off-target, a fact, but again, possession receivers don't get a lot of 100 yard games. Especially possession receivers in their second year who missed large parts of both offseasons. You can pretend that means something, but it doesn't. And while it's far from a fait accompli, that UDFA WR appears so far to be headed for a future where he's used as a gadget guy.)

 

Sorry, I didnt state opinions I stated facts. (*) (Yeah, again, you really in no way did. The fact that you really really want something to be true unfortunately doesn't make it a fact.)

 

Wrong again, every thing above is a statistic...thats a fact, not opinion.  You are consistently disregarding the statistical truths and rebutting with your rosy opinion of Zays body of work.    

 

Never said he cant improve, although I did say I am personally skeptical he can fully turn the corner based on what I had seen up to that point.  

 

Honestly I am really pulling for him to this year and I fully acknowledge he is trending that way.  But the criticisms when I made them were based on facts, (*) and he earned them on the field when we were entering the offseason.  Almost half of his career TD's came in the 2 Miami games...I want to see him play with some consistency and not just show up against the weaker opposition.  

 

Its also a fact he struggled badly in 3 of his last 4 games last year. (*)  Jets, Lions, and Pats games were not good games for him at all over that stretch. (

 

I 100% stand by my original criticisms of his first 2 years...and I find if funny you keep calling them wacky (I'm doing that because they're absolutely screwy. Not all of them. Plenty of people have supported you on your more normal contentions, like that he might have fallen to #4 ... that kind of thing. It's only the truly kooky stuff that I called wacky. It was.) and way out there when a LOT of people in this thread, including lots of other good and respected posters were in agreement on those criticisms as well.  

 

☝️ MORE opinion...still waiting to see a single fact from you.

 

So maybe you're just way too far out there on the rose colored glasses?

 

But like I said earlier...GO ZAY!  Hope he keeps trending up like he has been and  you are and proves he can be a good WR for Josh and this team for years to come.  I personally want to see it on the field...consistency, reliable hands, able to get off the press coverage, fighting for balls, etc before I get too excited though.  He's already dissapointed me twice now...was excited for him when we drafted him and then went out and had about as bad a rookie year a player like him can have.  Was excited to see him put year 1 behind him and play with Josh...then he went out and a "better" year but it still wasn't very good.  So today, I remain cautious in any optimism until he PROVES it on the field.  (Yeah, see, this stuff's all fine. Glass half-empty, but a reasonable if unlikely opinion to use this reasonable stuff to think that he'd be traded. It's only the truly barmy stuff you threw out there that I called wacky.)

 

He may or may not be traded, I hope he proves the skepticism wrong and is a great player for this team.  But the criticism of his body of work up that point was both valid and statistically accurate.  

 

Hopefully this is his year...assuming he's still on the team lol 

 

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

 

 

NOW to address this ^ above.

 

This party above is COMICAL to me...you are basing all your opinion on him saying "Trending up" after Zay had his best game of his career (still nothing spectacular, less than 70 yards, but he got 2 TD's so it was a good game, but not like he dominated the game).  "TRENDING" is now supposed to be some ringing endorsement of him?  Yet you IGNORE all the comments and quotes made AFTER that during the offseason where he literally stated he wants to see accountable guys do it consistently.  Zay has never once in his career had back to back good games...but I guess in your mind, despite only having Zay, Foster, and McKenzie on the roster where Foster had three 100 yard games over the final 7, that somehow Zay is immune to these comments?  LMFAO.  

 

Beane said multiple times, but specifically on February 28th of the offseason (when we only had Zay, Foster and McKenzie still on the roster from guys who played down the stretch):  This was in response to the guys STILL on the roster at the WR position and if he felt they had solved the starting WR roles:  "I think we have some different flavors there, but to say we've solved that, I can't sit here and say that we have.  I think we've got some guys that have shown flashes of what they can they do, BUT WE NEED SOMEONE THATS ACCONTABLE THAT CAN DO IT FOR THE WHOLE SEASON, and can these guys do it?"

 

Literally stated he wants guys who are accountable and do it the WHOLE season!  He would then add. " We're trying to create competition, and add as much value, and let the best man win".  

 

I Mean he LITERALLY makes no commitment to any of the WR's in his comments and references them not playing to a high level consistently.  

 

In the New England game, for example, he played pretty well throughout, getting open but not getting thrown to even when open. The first throw to him on the first drive is a sad case. He's wide open over the middle for 12 yards or so and Allen just stone misses him. In that game he had five catches on 9 targets for 67 yards and a TD. And if Allen had hit him on that play it would've been 6 catches on 10 targets for 80 yards or more and a TD. Your continual insistence that it is a "fact" that it wasn't a good game ... well, it's a bit daft. One might say bonkers.

 

Dude go watch the NE game...was not a good game at all.  You are literally just making this up and not basing it off the game.  Zay was ZERO FOR ZERO with like 6 minutes left in the game.  He was consistently taken off his routes, struggled with the physicality in that game, etc.  Nothing you can possibly say will make that a good game...you BELIEVE it was a good game because you read a stat sheet and saw that late game gimme stats.  Talk to me after you have watched the WHOLE game again.  (Cue up the "I did watch it again lie" because I know you didn't based on your accounting of it).  I still have the whole season on my DVR minus the first 2 games and the NP and DA games which I couldn't bear to keep.  

 

At the end of the day, its all good like I said many times.  I don't care you feel differently, its an opinion you are entitled to.  I don't care if ultimately my thoughts on him being traded are wrong, it was a bold prediction when I made it and honestly, hope I am wrong and he has a big year for us.  BUT...I now and always will 100% stand by my original criticisms you call wacky that a LOT of other respected posters agreed with.  

 

GO Bills, GO Zay

 

And like I said earlier, I agree to disagree on his 2nd season and its all good.  

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Hsker4life]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Ok, apparently I need to actually properly address your post here now that I am back from PT.  

 

   On 7/31/2019 at 11:57 PM,  Alphadawg7 said: 

 

Sorry...its fact that he is in the bottom of the NFL starting WR's in catch percentage and drops over his 2 year career, (yup, yet more of the nutso stuff where you 1) pretend that catch percentage has nothing to do with the poor QBs as well as the WRs, and  2) keep having to throw in his admittedly poorer first year and a half and ignore the fact that he got a lot better the last half of the  year) and was in both seasons, not just one.  Thats a statistical fact, not an opinion. (Yeah, a statistical fact that's irrelevant to how he greatly improved the last half of the year)  Its a statistical fact that he only had 2 strong games with Josh over the last 6 games when Josh came back from injury (Dude, you keep doing it and doing it, but this is yet another example in this thread of you calling a bald-faced stupid opinion a fact. Facts and opinions are different. And what you have there is an opinion. An opinion that Beane strongly disagrees with).  Not an opinion, fact. (Yeah, um, no.)  He produced nothing in 3 of them, and produced nothing in the Pats game (0 catches for 0 yards until the final minutes of the game when down several scores and Pats played soft to chew clock).  These aren't opinions, these are facts. (*)  Its also a fact that he shows up in the 5 min Josh Allen drops video (you keep bringing up that video ... it's something some doofy fan made and it features drops, poor throws, and great defensive plays) way too many times at 9 times, and this is only the games Josh played in.

 

There are NO facts in what you said above, none.  You are claiming opinion to be fact.  Facts are he had 2 productive games out of the last 6 with a healthy Josh...TWO.  I already posted the stats of all 6 games, which you ignore and just make false claims he was good.  His ONLY 2 games where he was productive were both Miami games and in the first Miami game we lost, he DROPPED a critical pass on the final drive that basically sealed our fate that would have given us a first down in the red zone just prior to the Clay drop.  The NE game he did NOTHING until the final minutes of the game...literally 0 catches and was completely taken out of that game until NE played soft to chew clock up several scores.  Thats not a "good" game by any means.  

 

Its also a fact that both McD and Beane said multiple times heading into the offseason they need to get WRs who can get open and catch (Irrelevant, but true ... they showed they did need receivers, and they've also showed that they like Zay and that he appears to be in their plans. That's a total swing and a miss.) 

 

WRONG:  Beane said multiple times, but specifically on February 28th of the offseason (when we only had Zay, Foster and McKenzie still on the roster from guys who played down the stretch):  This was in response to the guys STILL on the roster at the WR position and if he felt they had solved the starting WR roles:  "I think we have some different flavors there, but to say we've solved that, I can't sit here and say that we have.  I think we've got some guys that have shown flashes of what they can they do, BUT WE NEED SOMEONE THATS ACCONTABLE THAT CAN DO IT FOR THE WHOLE SEASON, and can these guys do it?"

 

Literally stated he wants guys who are accountable and do it the WHOLE season!  He would then add. " We're trying to create competition, and add as much value, and let the best man win".  

 

Him and McD would say in other interviews they want guys who consistently get separation and consistently catch the ball in clips from the combine and other offseason sound bites related to the WR position.  All of these quotes came AFTER your press conference clip where Beane said that after Zay had his best game of his career in week 17 against Miami (and it wasn't even that great, just multi TD game against a team that didnt even show up).

...Zay was a 2 year starter under McD and a starter all last season.  Considering he struggled getting open consistently and had too many drops, (*) I think its safe to say he was talking about him too.  Its also a fact that Zay has less than 40 yards in 10 games last year and less than 40 yards in 22 of his career 31 games.  Its also a fact an UDFA WR has 3 100 yard games in his last 7 games and Zay has 0 in 31 career games. (Yes, but off-target, a fact, but again, possession receivers don't get a lot of 100 yard games. Especially possession receivers in their second year who missed large parts of both offseasons. You can pretend that means something, but it doesn't. And while it's far from a fait accompli, that UDFA WR appears so far to be headed for a future where he's used as a gadget guy.)

 

Sorry, I didnt state opinions I stated facts. (*) (Yeah, again, you really in no way did. The fact that you really really want something to be true unfortunately doesn't make it a fact.)

 

Wrong again, every thing above is a statistic...thats a fact, not opinion.  You are consistently disregarding the statistical truths and rebutting with your rosy opinion of Zays body of work.    

 

Never said he cant improve, although I did say I am personally skeptical he can fully turn the corner based on what I had seen up to that point.  

 

Honestly I am really pulling for him to this year and I fully acknowledge he is trending that way.  But the criticisms when I made them were based on facts, (*) and he earned them on the field when we were entering the offseason.  Almost half of his career TD's came in the 2 Miami games...I want to see him play with some consistency and not just show up against the weaker opposition.  

 

Its also a fact he struggled badly in 3 of his last 4 games last year. (*)  Jets, Lions, and Pats games were not good games for him at all over that stretch. (

 

I 100% stand by my original criticisms of his first 2 years...and I find if funny you keep calling them wacky (I'm doing that because they're absolutely screwy. Not all of them. Plenty of people have supported you on your more normal contentions, like that he might have fallen to #4 ... that kind of thing. It's only the truly kooky stuff that I called wacky. It was.) and way out there when a LOT of people in this thread, including lots of other good and respected posters were in agreement on those criticisms as well.  

 

☝️ MORE opinion...still waiting to see a single fact from you.

 

So maybe you're just way too far out there on the rose colored glasses?

 

But like I said earlier...GO ZAY!  Hope he keeps trending up like he has been and  you are and proves he can be a good WR for Josh and this team for years to come.  I personally want to see it on the field...consistency, reliable hands, able to get off the press coverage, fighting for balls, etc before I get too excited though.  He's already dissapointed me twice now...was excited for him when we drafted him and then went out and had about as bad a rookie year a player like him can have.  Was excited to see him put year 1 behind him and play with Josh...then he went out and a "better" year but it still wasn't very good.  So today, I remain cautious in any optimism until he PROVES it on the field.  (Yeah, see, this stuff's all fine. Glass half-empty, but a reasonable if unlikely opinion to use this reasonable stuff to think that he'd be traded. It's only the truly barmy stuff you threw out there that I called wacky.)

 

He may or may not be traded, I hope he proves the skepticism wrong and is a great player for this team.  But the criticism of his body of work up that point was both valid and statistically accurate.  

 

Hopefully this is his year...assuming he's still on the team lol 

 

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

 

 

NOW to address this ^ above.

 

This party above is COMICAL to me...you are basing all your opinion on him saying "Trending up" after Zay had his best game of his career (still nothing spectacular, less than 70 yards, but he got 2 TD's so it was a good game, but not like he dominated the game).  "TRENDING" is now supposed to be some ringing endorsement of him?  Yet you IGNORE all the comments and quotes made AFTER that during the offseason where he literally stated he wants to see accountable guys do it consistently.  Zay has never once in his career had back to back good games...but I guess in your mind, despite only having Zay, Foster, and McKenzie on the roster where Foster had three 100 yard games over the final 7, that somehow Zay is immune to these comments?  LMFAO.  

 

Beane said multiple times, but specifically on February 28th of the offseason (when we only had Zay, Foster and McKenzie still on the roster from guys who played down the stretch):  This was in response to the guys STILL on the roster at the WR position and if he felt they had solved the starting WR roles:  "I think we have some different flavors there, but to say we've solved that, I can't sit here and say that we have.  I think we've got some guys that have shown flashes of what they can they do, BUT WE NEED SOMEONE THATS ACCONTABLE THAT CAN DO IT FOR THE WHOLE SEASON, and can these guys do it?"

 

Literally stated he wants guys who are accountable and do it the WHOLE season!  He would then add. " We're trying to create competition, and add as much value, and let the best man win".  

 

I Mean he LITERALLY makes no commitment to any of the WR's in his comments and references them not playing to a high level consistently.  

 

In the New England game, for example, he played pretty well throughout, getting open but not getting thrown to even when open. The first throw to him on the first drive is a sad case. He's wide open over the middle for 12 yards or so and Allen just stone misses him. In that game he had five catches on 9 targets for 67 yards and a TD. And if Allen had hit him on that play it would've been 6 catches on 10 targets for 80 yards or more and a TD. Your continual insistence that it is a "fact" that it wasn't a good game ... well, it's a bit daft. One might say bonkers.

 

Dude go watch the NE game...was not a good game at all.  You are literally just making this up and not basing it off the game.  Zay was ZERO FOR ZERO with like 6 minutes left in the game.  He was consistently taken off his routes, struggled with the physicality in that game, etc.  Nothing you can possibly say will make that a good game...you BELIEVE it was a good game because you read a stat sheet and saw that late game gimme stats.  Talk to me after you have watched the WHOLE game again.  (Cue up the "I did watch it again lie" because I know you didn't based on your accounting of it).  I still have the whole season on my DVR minus the first 2 games and the NP and DA games which I couldn't bear to keep.  

 

At the end of the day, its all good like I said many times.  I don't care you feel differently, its an opinion you are entitled to.  I don't care if ultimately my thoughts on him being traded are wrong, it was a bold prediction when I made it and honestly, hope I am wrong and he has a big year for us.  BUT...I now and always will 100% stand by my original criticisms you call wacky that a LOT of other respected posters agreed with.  

 

GO Bills, GO Zay

 

 

It’s already pretty clear you were wrong. You just refuse to admit it.

[Buffalo ill]

Quoting walls of text over and over....

[Big Gun]

The op is ragging on someones opinion because it differs from his original post, which was opinion, too funny!

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Zay will make the team, no question, but I'm not hearing that he's making any noise in training camp. I feel like he'll be the same player this year - just a guy on the field that is close to replacement level and offers nothing special to the offense. He doesn't make any spectacular plays or have any defining traits. I hope he proves me wrong.

You have aptly described Zay Jones in noting that non of his traits are special but rather fall in the solid to good categories. That's okay. If he becomes a productive #3 receiver for us I won't be complaining. In my opinion we don't have a #1 caliber receiver on the roster. But not having that caliber of receiver doesn't mean that you can't have a good receiving unit composed of multiple two and three caliber receivers. With the additions of Brown and Beasley and more consistent play from Zay our unit looks solid with the expectation that the qb will continue forward on an upward trajectory. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Zay will make the team, no question, but I'm not hearing that he's making any noise in training camp. I feel like he'll be the same player this year - just a guy on the field that is close to replacement level and offers nothing special to the offense. He doesn't make any spectacular plays or have any defining traits. I hope he proves me wrong.

I've posted a lot in this thread, so I'm only repeating myself.   

 

1.  I think the bolded language is absolutely true.   Zay has been nothing special in any way.   Not bad last year, but nothing special.  Not great speed, not a great possession receiver, not great hands, not great after the catch, not great anything.   Not bad, but nothing about Zay stands out.  That works against him.  

 

2.  If you're a receiver and you aren't in the top 3 receivers in the room, you're expendable.  You aren't going to get a lot of snaps, and the next guy in line is probably essentially as good as you are.   For Zay's roster spot to be secure, he has to make the top 3.   Maybe he will, maybe he won't.   Today, August 2nd, he is not a lock to do it.  Beasley appears to be a lock, and Brown does, too.   Andre Roberts has flashed some ability lately - he's faster, better after the catch.  So Roberts is one threat to Zay.  There's been buzz about Ray Ray; he's another threat.  

 

3.  If you're not in the top three, you may lose out even though you're the next best receiver on the team.   The problem with being number 4 is that you don't get a lot of snaps, so you have very little impact on winning and losing.  Another receiver who isn't as good as you but who shows greater potential than you might may make the team ahead of you.  So Zay has to worry about Ray Ray, McKenzie, Williams, maybe even Sills, not because they're better now, but because they look like they'll be better in six weeks or even six months.  

 

4.  Alpha's point always has been not that Zay gets cut, but that he gets traded.   No one seems to disagree that the receiver room is a lot more crowded this year than last.  No standouts, but a lot of guys who right now look like they can contribute.   So someone has to go, and Beane probably will be looking for trade bait.  It could be Zay, it could be Foster.   

 

I'm not saying Zay's bad.   I'm saying if he doesn't win a top-3 position, his roster spot is at risk.   

[Philo]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've posted a lot in this thread, so I'm only repeating myself.   

 

1.  I think the bolded language is absolutely true.   Zay has been nothing special in any way.   Not bad last year, but nothing special.  Not great speed, not a great possession receiver, not great hands, not great after the catch, not great anything.   Not bad, but nothing about Zay stands out.  That works against him.  

 

2.  If you're a receiver and you aren't in the top 3 receivers in the room, you're expendable.  You aren't going to get a lot of snaps, and the next guy in line is probably essentially as good as you are.   For Zay's roster spot to be secure, he has to make the top 3.   Maybe he will, maybe he won't.   Today, August 2nd, he is not a lock to do it.  Beasley appears to be a lock, and Brown does, too.   Andre Roberts has flashed some ability lately - he's faster, better after the catch.  So Roberts is one threat to Zay.  There's been buzz about Ray Ray; he's another threat.  

 

3.  If you're not in the top three, you may lose out even though you're the next best receiver on the team.   The problem with being number 4 is that you don't get a lot of snaps, so you have very little impact on winning and losing.  Another receiver who isn't as good as you but who shows greater potential than you might may make the team ahead of you.  So Zay has to worry about Ray Ray, McKenzie, Williams, maybe even Sills, not because they're better now, but because they look like they'll be better in six weeks or even six months.  

 

4.  Alpha's point always has been not that Zay gets cut, but that he gets traded.   No one seems to disagree that the receiver room is a lot more crowded this year than last.  No standouts, but a lot of guys who right now look like they can contribute.   So someone has to go, and Beane probably will be looking for trade bait.  It could be Zay, it could be Foster.   

 

I'm not saying Zay's bad.   I'm saying if he doesn't win a top-3 position, his roster spot is at risk.   

 

Fair points.

 

IMO when it comes to other players threatening for top 3 the only name I would reasonably suggest is maybe Robert Foster. He has had a shaky camp thus far, but has the natural talent. Ray Ray may be getting good press, but he doesn't excite me as a top 3 receiver on this team. Williams and Sills appear to be way far behind and my only memory of McKenzie this camp is that scene in the Embedded series when Hyde essentially told him to stfu.

 

Basically, if Zay isn't top 3 by opening day (barring the hypothetical trade) then that means Foster got his crap together and jumped over Zay on the depth chart with exceptional preseason play. That's the only scenario that seems plausible to me. 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Philo Beddoe said:

 

Fair points.

 

IMO when it comes to other players threatening for top 3 the only name I would reasonably suggest is maybe Robert Foster. He has had a shaky camp thus far, but has the natural talent. Ray Ray may be getting good press, but he doesn't excite me as a top 3 receiver on this team. Williams and Sills appear to be way far behind and my only memory of McKenzie this camp is that scene in the Embedded series when Hyde essentially told him to stfu.

 

Basically, if Zay isn't top 3 by opening day (barring the hypothetical trade) then that means Foster got his crap together and jumped over Zay on the depth chart with exceptional preseason play. That's the only scenario that seems plausible to me. 

Those are all fair points, too.   I'm not at camp, so I don't know who has a legit shot at the third spot.  The think is, to win the third spot, all you have to do is be better than Zay, and no one is saying Zay is some kind of world beater.   Being better than Zay isn't a really high standard.   If you have speed, hands or after-the-catch ability, you're already in the hunt.   

[njbuff]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You mean like the 9 balls that hit him in the hands in the Josh Allen drops video?  Lmao at the excuses for balls falling out of his hands

 

There is also the throw Allen missed to a wide open Zay Jones at Miami, which contributed to the loss (the throw in the end zone in the third quarter).

 

No excuses for anyone.

 

Jones will get his chance this year and if he blows, MCDermott will not give him the benefit of the doubt of being a young WR any more. He will be on the bench.

 

[Philo]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Those are all fair points, too.   I'm not at camp, so I don't know who has a legit shot at the third spot.  The think is, to win the third spot, all you have to do is be better than Zay, and no one is saying Zay is some kind of world beater.   Being better than Zay isn't a really high standard.   If you have speed, hands or after-the-catch ability, you're already in the hunt.   

 

Agreed. Foster appears to have those things, but has issues with concentration, mental lapses, etc. 

 

And to be fair to Zay, he isn't a world beater, but I'm not losing sleep if he is my #3 receiver. 

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Philo Beddoe said:

 

Agreed. Foster appears to have those things, but has issues with concentration, mental lapses, etc. 

 

And to be fair to Zay, he isn't a world beater, but I'm not losing sleep if he is my #3 receiver. 

I agree on that too.   I think receivers are like running backs; once you get past the elite players, there are a lot of decent ones available.  Zay looked like one of those last year - not a guy who will ever threaten to be a number 1, but a guy who can play a role on the field for you. 

 

Having said that, I'll also say this:  I wasn't surprised that Belichick took Hogan and made him useful for a couple of years; I'm not so sure Belichick would want Zay.  Hogan had intensity that I don't see in Zay, and intensity is what Belichick, and McD, want.  Who are the guys McD really loves?   Murphy and Gore, guys who are spilling their guts from the first day of training camp.  Zay's never struck me as that type. 

[Philo]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree on that too.   I think receivers are like running backs; once you get past the elite players, there are a lot of decent ones available.  Zay looked like one of those last year - not a guy who will ever threaten to be a number 1, but a guy who can play a role on the field for you. 

 

Having said that, I'll also say this:  I wasn't surprised that Belichick took Hogan and made him useful for a couple of years; I'm not so sure Belichick would want Zay.  Hogan had intensity that I don't see in Zay, and intensity is what Belichick, and McD, want.  Who are the guys McD really loves?   Murphy and Gore, guys who are spilling their guts from the first day of training camp.  Zay's never struck me as that type. 

 

I think there is a good chance Zay had that intensity and confidence coming out of college, but it was then completely shattered early on his rookie season. He has had to build himself back up mentally ever since.

 

Zay went from big fish in the small pond at ECU to the small fish who came up short in the much bigger pond. I can see how that set him back mentally and when you don't have any elite measurables then it's even tougher to right the ship, so to speak. 

 

That being said he has been busting his ass this offseason so I'm pulling for him to put it together. 

[ColoradoBills]

This thread is like a bad accident on the highway..............I don't want to look but..............................I did and now I hate myself.