Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[Philo]

8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

1. To me, all the criticism Alphadawg started this with is true. 

 

2. All of the off season reports of Zay working his ass off and getting better is true. 

 

3. All of the Zay is the starter now in three WR sets is true (although there are not a lot of reports of him making plays. Some but not a lot and especially not a lot in 11-11)

 

4. It is true that Zay made a giant if not quantum leap from his rookie year to his second year. 

 

5. It is also true that the quantum leap vaulted him from all time historically bad to just kinda bad. 

 

6. None of it matters one whit now. The only thing is whether or not Zay produces in regular season (not preseason) games with real bullets. Another quantum leap will make him average. We need more than that. We need high second rounder good. 

 

 

 

 

 

Great points. However, I would argue that the year 2 leap made Zay "serviceable" and that the goal for the year 3 leap should be to become (at least) "reliable".

 

So far he is projecting to be the 3rd receiving option and I'm fine if whoever that guy may be is at least "reliable". Maybe that term means different things for different people, but he certainly was not reliable his rookie year and was up and down last year. Though you could attribute a lot of that to last year's offense in general.

 

Anyway, I think that's a fair floor for Zay right now, but he definitely has a higher ceiling. If he doesn't reach that, it won't be for a lack of trying.

[freddyjj]

Was at camp today and have to say Robert Foster might be the better bet to not be on the roster Opening Day.

[Kelly the Dog]

38 minutes ago, Philo Beddoe said:

 

Great points. However, I would argue that the year 2 leap made Zay "serviceable" and that the goal for the year 3 leap should be to become (at least) "reliable".

 

So far he is projecting to be the 3rd receiving option and I'm fine if whoever that guy may be is at least "reliable". Maybe that term means different things for different people, but he certainly was not reliable his rookie year and was up and down last year. Though you could attribute a lot of that to last year's offense in general.

 

Anyway, I think that's a fair floor for Zay right now, but he definitely has a higher ceiling. If he doesn't reach that, it won't be for a lack of trying.

Yeah, serviceable is probably better and more fair. 

[Codyny13]

Not sure I understand all the Zay hate. He was not good his rookie year, I think he had stage fright for sure, he forgot how to go out and just have fun playin ball. I think that anxiety is absolutely what drove that “incident” in the hotel. But he came back much much better last year and put up decent numbers, I don’t have em in front on me, but I’m guessing somewhere around 70, and 700 with 7 tds? The kid worked his tail off this offseason, put on solid weight to beat press, and I think will take another big step forward this year. Maybe not in numbers because of Brown and Beasley but as far as consistentcy and reliability, I see him becoming more of a number 2 then an off the roster canidate.

[Alphadawg7]

On 7/30/2019 at 10:53 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Again, you continue to support a prediction that was always unlikely but well within possibility with arguments that are on the far side of wacky, far enough out there that Voyager and the Hubble are having trouble confirming sightings.

 

Yeah, he had problems in the first year, (not surprising with being a rookie who missed a lot of camp with an injury) but he simply improved a lot in the second half last year. Pretty much everyone but you and a few Zay haters on these boards acknowledges that.

 

 

Again, it's not your contention that's so whack-a-doodle. It's the way you've supported it with nutsy stuff.  For example: 

 

 

 

I know. Amazing how that "mythical claim" caught on.

 

Beane's two cents:

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

Golly, I sure wish we didn't have a GM who gets caught up in "mythical claims," and doesn't know "if it really happened or not," and somehow bought into the whole "myth" that Zay got better. He should talk to you about his evaluations about his players, because McDermott is obviously feeding him the wrong info.

 

Coincidentally, you kept referencing this same PC earlier in the thread, didn't you? About how Beane was saying good things about Duke? And yet you somehow forgot to mention him saying this about Zay ... Hmm. Hard to figure how that might have happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry...its fact that he is in the bottom of the NFL starting WR's in catch percentage and drops over his 2 year career, and was in both seasons, not just one.  Thats a statistical fact, not an opinion.  Its a statistical fact that he only had 2 strong games with Josh over the last 6 games when Josh came back from injury.  Not an opinion, fact.  He produced nothing in 3 of them, and produced nothing in the Pats game (0 catches for 0 yards until the final minutes of the game when down several scores and Pats played soft to chew clock).  These aren't opinions, these are facts.  Its also a fact that he shows up in the 5 min Josh Allen drops video way too many times at 9 times, and this is only the games Josh played in.

 

Its also a fact that both McD and Beane said multiple times heading into the offseason they need to get WRs who can get open and catch...Zay was a 2 year starter under McD and a starter all last season.  Considering he struggled getting open consistently and had too many drops, I think its safe to say he was talking about him too.  Its also a fact that Zay has less than 40 yards in 10 games last year and less than 40 yards in 22 of his career 31 games.  Its also a fact an UDFA WR has 3 100 yard games in his last 7 games and Zay has 0 in 31 career games.  

 

Sorry, I didnt state opinions I stated facts.  

 

Never said he cant improve, although I did say I am personally skeptical he can fully turn the corner based on what I had seen up to that point.  

 

Honestly I am really pulling for him to this year and I fully acknowledge he is trending that way.  But the criticisms when I made them were based on facts, and he earned them on the field when we were entering the offseason.  Almost half of his career TD's came in the 2 Miami games...I want to see him play with some consistency and not just show up against the weaker opposition.  

 

Its also a fact he struggled badly in 3 of his last 4 games last year.  Jets, Lions, and Pats games were not good games for him at all over that stretch.  

 

I 100% stand by my original criticisms of his first 2 years...and I find if funny you keep calling them wacky and way out there when a LOT of people in this thread, including lots of other good and respected posters were in agreement on those criticisms as well.  

 

So maybe you're just way too far out there on the rose colored glasses?

 

But like I said earlier...GO ZAY!  Hope he keeps trending up like he has been and  you are and proves he can be a good WR for Josh and this team for years to come.  I personally want to see it on the field...consistency, reliable hands, able to get off the press coverage, fighting for balls, etc before I get too excited though.  He's already dissapointed me twice now...was excited for him when we drafted him and then went out and had about as bad a rookie year a player like him can have.  Was excited to see him put year 1 behind him and play with Josh...then he went out and a "better" year but it still wasn't very good.  So today, I remain cautious in any optimism until he PROVES it on the field.  

 

Hopefully this is his year...assuming he's still on the team lol 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Sorry...its fact that he is in the bottom of the NFL starting WR's in catch percentage and drops over his 2 year career, (yup, yet more of the nutso stuff where you 1) pretend that catch percentage has nothing to do with the poor QBs as well as the WRs, and  2) keep having to throw in his admittedly poorer first year and a half and ignore the fact that he got a lot better the last half of the  year) and was in both seasons, not just one.  Thats a statistical fact, not an opinion. (Yeah, a statistical fact that's irrelevant to how he greatly improved the last half of the year)  Its a statistical fact that he only had 2 strong games with Josh over the last 6 games when Josh came back from injury (Dude, you keep doing it and doing it, but this is yet another example in this thread of you calling a bald-faced stupid opinion a fact. Facts and opinions are different. And what you have there is an opinion. An opinion that Beane strongly disagrees with).  Not an opinion, fact. (Yeah, um, no.)  He produced nothing in 3 of them, and produced nothing in the Pats game (0 catches for 0 yards until the final minutes of the game when down several scores and Pats played soft to chew clock).  These aren't opinions, these are facts. (*)  Its also a fact that he shows up in the 5 min Josh Allen drops video (you keep bringing up that video ... it's something some doofy fan made and it features drops, poor throws, and great defensive plays) way too many times at 9 times, and this is only the games Josh played in.

 

Its also a fact that both McD and Beane said multiple times heading into the offseason they need to get WRs who can get open and catch (Irrelevant, but true ... they showed they did need receivers, and they've also showed that they like Zay and that he appears to be in their plans. That's a total swing and a miss.) ...Zay was a 2 year starter under McD and a starter all last season.  Considering he struggled getting open consistently and had too many drops, (*) I think its safe to say he was talking about him too.  Its also a fact that Zay has less than 40 yards in 10 games last year and less than 40 yards in 22 of his career 31 games.  Its also a fact an UDFA WR has 3 100 yard games in his last 7 games and Zay has 0 in 31 career games. (Yes, but off-target, a fact, but again, possession receivers don't get a lot of 100 yard games. Especially possession receivers in their second year who missed large parts of both offseasons. You can pretend that means something, but it doesn't. And while it's far from a fait accompli, that UDFA WR appears so far to be headed for a future where he's used as a gadget guy.)

 

Sorry, I didnt state opinions I stated facts. (*) (Yeah, again, you really in no way did. The fact that you really really want something to be true unfortunately doesn't make it a fact.)

 

Never said he cant improve, although I did say I am personally skeptical he can fully turn the corner based on what I had seen up to that point.  

 

Honestly I am really pulling for him to this year and I fully acknowledge he is trending that way.  But the criticisms when I made them were based on facts, (*) and he earned them on the field when we were entering the offseason.  Almost half of his career TD's came in the 2 Miami games...I want to see him play with some consistency and not just show up against the weaker opposition.  

 

Its also a fact he struggled badly in 3 of his last 4 games last year. (*)  Jets, Lions, and Pats games were not good games for him at all over that stretch. (

 

I 100% stand by my original criticisms of his first 2 years...and I find if funny you keep calling them wacky (I'm doing that because they're absolutely screwy. Not all of them. Plenty of people have supported you on your more normal contentions, like that he might have fallen to #4 ... that kind of thing. It's only the truly kooky stuff that I called wacky. It was.) and way out there when a LOT of people in this thread, including lots of other good and respected posters were in agreement on those criticisms as well.  

 

So maybe you're just way too far out there on the rose colored glasses?

 

But like I said earlier...GO ZAY!  Hope he keeps trending up like he has been and  you are and proves he can be a good WR for Josh and this team for years to come.  I personally want to see it on the field...consistency, reliable hands, able to get off the press coverage, fighting for balls, etc before I get too excited though.  He's already dissapointed me twice now...was excited for him when we drafted him and then went out and had about as bad a rookie year a player like him can have.  Was excited to see him put year 1 behind him and play with Josh...then he went out and a "better" year but it still wasn't very good.  So today, I remain cautious in any optimism until he PROVES it on the field.  (Yeah, see, this stuff's all fine. Glass half-empty, but a reasonable if unlikely opinion to use this reasonable stuff to think that he'd be traded. It's only the truly barmy stuff you threw out there that I called wacky.)

 

Hopefully this is his year...assuming he's still on the team lol 

 

 

You went round the bend so often, I just put my answers above, in red.

 

Oh, and My fingers were getting sore from typing the same obvious thing again and again.So I just introduced green asterisks, (*) and used them the last five or six times the situation came up. Read those as, "No, that's not a fact, it's an opinion by absolutely any standard."

 

 

 

And again,

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

The reason he thinks that is because your "facts" about the last few games are actually rather doofy opinions with which Beane and nearly everyone around the team and the league disagree. Wacky, in a word.

 

In the New England game, for example, he played pretty well throughout, getting open but not getting thrown to even when open. The first throw to him on the first drive is a sad case. He's wide open over the middle for 12 yards or so and Allen just stone misses him. In that game he had five catches on 9 targets for 67 yards and a TD. And if Allen had hit him on that play it would've been 6 catches on 10 targets for 80 yards or more and a TD. Your continual insistence that it is a "fact" that it wasn't a good game ... well, it's a bit daft. One might say bonkers.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You went round the bend so often, I just put my answers above, in red.

 

Oh, and My fingers were getting sore from typing the same obvious thing again and again.So I just introduced green asterisks, (*) and used them the last five or six times the situation came up. Read those as, "No, that's not a fact, it's an opinion by absolutely any standard."

 

 

 

And again,

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

The reason he thinks that is because your "facts" about the last few games are actually rather doofy opinions with which Beane and nearly everyone around the team and the league disagree. Wacky, in a word.

 

In the New England game, for example, he played pretty well throughout, getting open but not getting thrown to even when open. The first throw to him on the first drive is a sad case. He's wide open over the middle for 12 yards or so and Allen just stone misses him. In that game he had five catches on 9 targets for 67 yards and a TD. And if Allen had hit him on that play it would've been 6 catches on 10 targets for 80 yards or more and a TD. Your continual insistence that it is a "fact" that it wasn't a good game ... well, it's a bit daft. One might say bonkers.

 

LMAO...there is so much wrong with you just wrote I don't even know how to reply to it all.  I don't have the amount of time it would take to properly address every point, so here are the cliff notes:

1. Really tired of the QB excuse to validate his terrible catch rate which was so bad in year 1 that people keep acting like year 2 was some huge improvement even though it was also quite bad for a starting WR and also among the worst in the NFL for a starting WR.  Keep pretending he isnt on the drops video for Josh Allen a LOT, and if memory serves me correctly I think he was the WR on it the most and he showed up 9 times.  I guess its TT fault all those times the ball hit Zay in the hands and dropped it and Josh Allens fault all the times the ball hit Zay in the hands and he dropped it.  
   1. Not to mention all the times he literally failed to make plays that contributed heavily to losses, including one of his so called "good" games (first Miami game) where he again failed to hold on to a ball BEFORE the Clay drop that significantly helped us lose that game.  
2. I have never seen someone so delusional about a series of games...referring to the last 4 games of the seasons.  I am not even going to talk about it anymore with you...go WATCH the games is all I can say.  His 6 games to end the season with Josh were as follows
   1. 0 catches
   2. 4 catches, 67 yards, 2 TDs
   3. 3 catches, 22 yards, 0 TDS
   4. 1 catch, 11 yards, 0 TDs
   5. 5 catches, 67 yards, 1 TDs (But literally did nothing and was at ZERO catches until the game was nearly over and in the final part of the 4th got some gimme catches when NE played to allow clock run off)
   6.  6 catches, 93 yards, 2 TDs
      1. YOU AND I have VERY different opinions of what a strong ending to the year looks like.  If this is what you want to see from your starting WR, then I don't know what to tell you.  He was LITERALLY irrelevant in 4 of the 6 games and was actually pretty bad in 3 of them too.  

Look its all good, we are all Bills fans, this is a situation where its just fine to agree to disagree as we keep getting into recycling the same comments now.  

 

I am totally fine if you entered the offseason feeling more positive about Zays season than I did.  I am fine if you have maintained more optimism too.  But I think its pretty ridiculous for you to consider the criticisms "wacky" or "around the bend" considering the factual recount of his first 2 years is not good...year 1 was atrocious, year 2 was better than year 1 but still not very good.  

 

And like I said before, he's trending in all the right ways this offseason, and hope that continues.  But I 100% stand by my criticisms and original thoughts on him.  I don't care if the "prediction" is right or not...but I do know that he earned the doubt on the field.  

 

So again...I fine agreeing to disagree on his 2nd season.  

Edited August 1, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LMAO...there is so much wrong with you just wrote I don't even know how to reply to it all.  I don't have the amount of time it would take to properly address every point, so here are the cliff notes:

1. Really tired of the QB excuse to validate his terrible catch rate which was so bad in year 1 (Of course you're really tired of it, it is a good argument that shows your poor logic.) that people  keep acting like year 2 was some huge improvement (yeah, people like Beane keep "pretending". More of your nutso stuff, with every post. The same wackadoo stuff in different words) even though it was also quite bad for a starting WR and also among the worst in the NFL for a starting WR. (And again ... second year ... missed most of both offseasons ... had Peterman, Barkley, Anderson and rookie Allen throwing to him)  Keep pretending he isnt on the  drops video (yet more of your loony stuff ...you keep bringing up this dweeb-edited video filled with some drops and also plenty of bad throws and good defense as if it meant something ... are you the desperate Josh Allen fanboy who edited it together or something) desperately for Josh Allen a LOT, and if memory serves me correctly I think he was the WR on it the most and he showed up 9 times.  I guess its TT fault all those times the ball hit Zay in the hands and dropped it and Josh Allens fault all the times the ball hit Zay in the hands and he dropped it.  
   1. Not to mention all the times he literally failed to make plays that contributed heavily to losses, including one of his so called "good" games (first Miami game) where he again failed to hold on to a ball BEFORE the Clay drop that significantly helped us lose that game.  
2. I have never seen someone so delusional about a series of games...referring to the last 4 games of the seasons.  I am not even going to talk about it anymore with you...go WATCH the games is all I can say.  His 6 games to end the season with Josh were as follows
   1. 0 catches
   2. 4 catches, 67 yards, 2 TDs
   3. 3 catches, 22 yards, 0 TDS
   4. 1 catch, 11 yards, 0 TDs
   5. 5 catches, 67 yards, 1 TDs (But literally did nothing and was at ZERO catches until the game was nearly over and in the final part of the 4th got some gimme catches when NE played to allow clock run off (when they threw it to him, he caught it. He was open a high percentage of the time in this game, I watched the tape. This was a good game, as were several of these others.)
   6.  6 catches, 93 yards, 2 TDs
   7. YOU AND I have VERY different opinions of what a strong ending to the year looks like (Yup. Thing is, Beane shares my opinion. But yeah, I'm sure you know better.)  If this is what you want to see from your starting WR, then I don't know what to tell you.  He was LITERALLY irrelevant (HA HA HA!! Oh, man, you're cracking me up. You don't know the difference between facts and opinions and now you don't know what "literally" means. I should have called that.)  in 4 of the 6 games and was actually pretty bad in 3 of them too.  
   8. Zay was relevant in all the games, even his worst, against Detroit, when Detroit had the elite CB Slay follow Zay around the field. Slay didn't follow Foster. He followed Zay, and Slay did a terrific job. Even on the NFL highlight film of that game you can see two times a good throw would have produced completions, especially that long ball where Zay had a half a step and Slay was on the inside, and Josh put the ball not to the outside where there was a lot of room but to the inside where Slay could get a shot at it. That was 50 yards thrown away by a bad toss. But mostly Slay had him covered. But that's what Slay does. He also held Mike Evans to 25 yards and Davante Adams to 53 yards on 10 targets when following them around. He was getting open consistently in all of them, even when they weren't throwing to him.
   9. In his last seven games he had 426 yards (50.4 YPG), 5 TDs (0.7 TD/G), and a 13.07 YPC figure, very solid for a possession guy. Zay was in his second year, had missed large parts of both of his first two offseasons, and was being thrown to by a very limited QB group which was being protected by a fairly poor OL. There was a reason Beane said he was trending up.

Look its all good, we are all Bills fans, this is a situation where its just fine to agree to disagree as we keep getting into recycling the same comments now.  

 

I am totally fine if you entered the offseason feeling more positive about Zays season than I did.  I am fine if you have maintained more optimism too.  But I think its pretty ridiculous for you to consider the criticisms "wacky" or "around the bend" considering the factual recount of his first 2 years is not good...year 1 was atrocious, year 2 was better than year 1 but still not very good.  

 

And like I said before, he's trending in all the right ways this offseason, and hope that continues.  But I 100% stand by my criticisms and original thoughts on him.  I don't care if the "prediction" is right or not...but I do know (nope, this is another opinion. You "feel" this, or "believe" it.) that he earned the doubt on the field.  

 

So again...I fine agreeing to disagree on his 2nd season.  (Me too.)

 

 

 

Thanks for the Cliff notes, I guess. Unfortunately, the Cliff notes are still nutty.

 

You keep going on about how his last games were bad. Again, you ought to go work on trying to convince Beane of that, because he obviously sees better than you do and made it very clear that he disagrees with you. And - again - when he made that statement to the reporters at the PC ...

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

... there was nothing but head-shakes and agreement. You disagree. That says more about you than it does about Zay. You're seeing this differently from everyone else, dude. And while this could mean you're just way way smarter than anyone on the Bills staff, even though they knew the plays, what the reads were, what the game plans were and what they wanted from Zay, it probably doesn't. I mean, maybe you're way way smarter than them. But that's really really unlikely. When a guy disagrees with everyone, including the people with the most info ... he's usually just wrong.

 

And I get that you'd like to see me stop recycling the same arguments. But you've been recycling the same daft supporting arguments for nearly 60 pages now. If you stop recycling, I'd certainly consider it myself. But you won't. This whole thread has been lovingly tended and maintained by you with the constant repetition of your wacky support.

 

Again, the main idea of the thread - that Zay might get traded - was always quite unlikely but certainly possible. If that had been all you said, I'd never have posted here, beyond maybe a sentence like "could happen but the chances are seriously low". But you followed it with constant nuttiness ... that Zay wasn't getting a great deal better the last half of the year despite the stats, Beane, McDermott and the pundits all disagreeing with you. You actually had to go with the saddest argument of all on that one ... "go watch the games," as if Beane, McDermott and virtually everyone disagreeing with you had been going after marlin in the gulf last fall and had never gotten around to seeing the tape. Absolutely zany and screwy.

 

You've recycled the constant mentions of that pointless Josh Allen fan video labelled drops but actually containing a ton of bad throws and good defensive plays. As if being on a fan video was a good argument about anything. Just silly.

 

You keep recycling the idea that only his games with Josh count, and that therefore you can ignore all Zay's other good games that weren't with Josh. You've pulled this in this post, but literally dozens of times before in the thread. Zay improved a great deal the second half. The fact that Josh was out for some of those good games has nothing to do with Zay. It only makes it wildly clear that you've got an agenda and that if facts don't fit it, you're willing to ignore them.

 

You keep saying "stats don't mean anything, you have to watch the games" when somebody posts good stats ... and then you post bad stats and act as if you've told the whole story. It's a receiver's job to get open, make catches and go for YAC. And to block. And to run as parts of plays. What's NOT a receiver's job is to see a ball thrown to somebody else and go over and steal it. Sometimes, game plans go mostly away from one WR and he can have a good game anyway, getting open but not being thrown to and blocking downfield.

 

You've got an agenda. You're daffily ignoring everything that doesn't fit with it. And it looks like you're going to continue recycling this flaky stuff while expecting me not to continue pointing it out. I'll feel completely free to keep pointing out your recycling. But hey, if you stop with the loony tunes stuff, I'll have nothing to point out ... if your post had been only the last four (very reasonable) paragraphs, I'd have had no real complaints. Instead, the whole top was more wackiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:51 AM, Kelly the Dog said:

1. To me, all the criticism Alphadawg started this with is true. 

 

2. All of the off season reports of Zay working his ass off and getting better is true. 

 

3. All of the Zay is the starter now in three WR sets is true (although there are not a lot of reports of him making plays. Some but not a lot and especially not a lot in 11-11)

 

4. It is true that Zay made a giant if not quantum leap from his rookie year to his second year. 

 

5. It is also true that the quantum leap vaulted him from all time historically bad to just kinda bad. 

 

6. None of it matters one whit now. The only thing is whether or not Zay produces in regular season (not preseason) games with real bullets. Another quantum leap will make him average. We need more than that. We need high second rounder good. 

 

 

 

That isn't true. It's an opinion.

 

And I find it really unconvincing to say a second-year guy is "just kinda bad," producing the way that he did on a team with major flaws at QB and on the OL last year.

 

He was a low- to mid-level #2. (37th in receptions among WRs, 47th in yards among WRs and tied for 13th in TDs among WRs). On a team that was 28th in pass attempts.

 

Agreed that none of that matters now. He absolutely needed to improve more, and needs to continue now. But so does every other rookie, 2nd year guy or 3rd year guy on this team.  Except maybe Tre, when it comes to young players, if they don't improve, they start to disappoint.

[NewEra]

Oh the pain.  Make it go away 

[MasterStrategist]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Thanks for the Cliff notes, I guess. Unfortunately, the Cliff notes are still nutty.

 

You keep going on about how his last games were bad. Again, you ought to go work on trying to convince Beane of that, because he obviously sees better than you do and made it very clear that he disagrees with you. And - again - when he made that statement to the reporters at the PC ...

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

... there was nothing but head-shakes and agreement. You disagree. That says more about you than it does about Zay. You're seeing this differently from everyone else, dude. And while this could mean you're just way way smarter than anyone on the Bills staff, even though they knew the plays, what the reads were, what the game plans were and what they wanted from Zay, it probably doesn't. I mean, maybe you're way way smarter than them. But that's really really unlikely. When a guy disagrees with everyone, including the people with the most info ... he's usually just wrong.

 

And I get that you'd like to see me stop recycling the same arguments. But you've been recycling the same daft supporting arguments for nearly 60 pages now. If you stop recycling, I'd certainly consider it myself. But you won't. This whole thread has been lovingly tended and maintained by you with the constant repetition of your wacky support.

 

Again, the main idea of the thread - that Zay might get traded - was always quite unlikely but certainly possible. If that had been all you said, I'd never have posted here, beyond maybe a sentence like "could happen but the chances are seriously low". But you followed it with constant nuttiness ... that Zay wasn't getting a great deal better the last half of the year despite the stats, Beane, McDermott and the pundits all disagreeing with you. You actually had to go with the saddest argument of all on that one ... "go watch the games," as if Beane, McDermott and virtually everyone disagreeing with you had been going after marlin in the gulf last fall and had never gotten around to seeing the tape. Absolutely zany and screwy.

 

You've recycled the constant mentions of that pointless Josh Allen fan video labelled drops but actually containing a ton of bad throws and good defensive plays. As if being on a fan video was a good argument about anything. Just silly.

 

You keep recycling the idea that only his games with Josh count, and that therefore you can ignore all Zay's other good games that weren't with Josh. You've pulled this in this post, but literally dozens of times before in the thread. Zay improved a great deal the second half. The fact that Josh was out for some of those good games has nothing to do with Zay. It only makes it wildly clear that you've got an agenda and that if facts don't fit it, you're willing to ignore them.

 

You keep saying "stats don't mean anything, you have to watch the games" when somebody posts good stats ... and then you post bad stats and act as if you've told the whole story. It's a receiver's job to get open, make catches and go for YAC. And to block. And to run as parts of plays. What's NOT a receiver's job is to see a ball thrown to somebody else and go over and steal it. Sometimes, game plans go mostly away from one WR and he can have a good game anyway, getting open but not being thrown to and blocking downfield.

 

You've got an agenda. You're daffily ignoring everything that doesn't fit with it. And it looks like you're going to continue recycling this flaky stuff while expecting me not to continue pointing it out. I'll feel completely free to keep pointing out your recycling. But hey, if you stop with the loony tunes stuff, I'll have nothing to point out ... if your post had been only the last four (very reasonable) paragraphs, I'd have had no real complaints. Instead, the whole top was more wackiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post!  I promised not to post here until week1, but can't ignore a great rebuttal.  

 

Be back week 1 to keep this thread alive

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Thanks for the Cliff notes, I guess. Unfortunately, the Cliff notes are still nutty.

 

You keep going on about how his last games were bad. Again, you ought to go work on trying to convince Beane of that, because he obviously sees better than you do and made it very clear that he disagrees with you. And - again - when he made that statement to the reporters at the PC ...

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

... there was nothing but head-shakes and agreement. You disagree. That says more about you than it does about Zay. You're seeing this differently from everyone else, dude. And while this could mean you're just way way smarter than anyone on the Bills staff, even though they knew the plays, what the reads were, what the game plans were and what they wanted from Zay, it probably doesn't. I mean, maybe you're way way smarter than them. But that's really really unlikely. When a guy disagrees with everyone, including the people with the most info ... he's usually just wrong.

 

And I get that you'd like to see me stop recycling the same arguments. But you've been recycling the same daft supporting arguments for nearly 60 pages now. If you stop recycling, I'd certainly consider it myself. But you won't. This whole thread has been lovingly tended and maintained by you with the constant repetition of your wacky support.

 

Again, the main idea of the thread - that Zay might get traded - was always quite unlikely but certainly possible. If that had been all you said, I'd never have posted here, beyond maybe a sentence like "could happen but the chances are seriously low". But you followed it with constant nuttiness ... that Zay wasn't getting a great deal better the last half of the year despite the stats, Beane, McDermott and the pundits all disagreeing with you. You actually had to go with the saddest argument of all on that one ... "go watch the games," as if Beane, McDermott and virtually everyone disagreeing with you had been going after marlin in the gulf last fall and had never gotten around to seeing the tape. Absolutely zany and screwy.

 

You've recycled the constant mentions of that pointless Josh Allen fan video labelled drops but actually containing a ton of bad throws and good defensive plays. As if being on a fan video was a good argument about anything. Just silly.

 

You keep recycling the idea that only his games with Josh count, and that therefore you can ignore all Zay's other good games that weren't with Josh. You've pulled this in this post, but literally dozens of times before in the thread. Zay improved a great deal the second half. The fact that Josh was out for some of those good games has nothing to do with Zay. It only makes it wildly clear that you've got an agenda and that if facts don't fit it, you're willing to ignore them.

 

You keep saying "stats don't mean anything, you have to watch the games" when somebody posts good stats ... and then you post bad stats and act as if you've told the whole story. It's a receiver's job to get open, make catches and go for YAC. And to block. And to run as parts of plays. What's NOT a receiver's job is to see a ball thrown to somebody else and go over and steal it. Sometimes, game plans go mostly away from one WR and he can have a good game anyway, getting open but not being thrown to and blocking downfield.

 

You've got an agenda. You're daffily ignoring everything that doesn't fit with it. And it looks like you're going to continue recycling this flaky stuff while expecting me not to continue pointing it out. I'll feel completely free to keep pointing out your recycling. But hey, if you stop with the loony tunes stuff, I'll have nothing to point out ... if your post had been only the last four (very reasonable) paragraphs, I'd have had no real complaints. Instead, the whole top was more wackiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look, this is getting silly now.  You literally just keep repeating the same opinions every time I show you a fact.  Nobody has posted "good stats" about Zay because he does NOT have any season of good stats nor does he even have consecutive games of good stats.  He literally has no stats to be proud of over any stretch of his career.  I do find it hilarious you are clinging for life so badly on trying some of the worst PR spin moves to try and prop up the NE game as if it was a good game when it was actually one of his worst of the season.  You apparently are impressed by a guy getting dominated and shutout for 55 min of a NFL game because he gets a handful of catches at the end when the game was a blow out loss and D was letting clock run off.  I find that kind a funny.  

 

But hey, too each their own.  Nothing wrong with not seeing eye to eye...but the discussion between me and you has 100% run its course pertaining to the same points who have now repeated like 4 or 5 straight posts.  If you got something else to discuss, I am all ears...but these items are pointless now as we both said our piece and tired of recycling of the same points over and over again.  

 

I do NOT have an agenda, and no offense, but thats about the stupidest thing you have said yet.  I have supported Zay in a NUMBER of threads on all positive news about him.  I want nothing out of this other than for the Bills to the best team possible.  You are the one bringing up the info about the early days of this post BEFORE any offseason moves, before any offseason news etc and making me explain it.  You are creating the narrative of an agenda because you wont stop talking about the same things over and over again.  I could give 2 craps about this thread being right or wrong and would LOOOOVVVVEEEE to see Zay have a big season.  I do 100% stand by my criticisms at the time I made this post, and until I see him do his thing ON THE FIELD with CONSISTENCY, WHEN IT MATTERS, and AGAINST GOOD TEAMS then I will remain cautiously optimistic about his offseason buzz.  

 

So, like I said...agree to disagree 

[Jay_Fixit]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Oh the pain.  Make it go away 

If anything, watching Thurman throw haymakers has made this thread a little more entertaining.

 

Haymakers.

 

Because he’s dominating.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

If anything, watching Thurman throw haymakers has made this thread a little more entertaining.

 

Haymakers.

 

Because he’s dominating.

 

lol.  He’s literally refuted factual stats with opinion and seems to think doing nothing against Jets, Lions and Pats was a good stretch of games lol.  

 

But it’s still been a fun ride regardless

Edited August 2, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

If anything, watching Thurman throw haymakers has made this thread a little more entertaining.

 

Haymakers.

 

Because he’s dominating.

You wouldn’t know a haymaker if it served you a five course meal homie

[Jay_Fixit]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You wouldn’t know a haymaker if it served you a five course meal homie

You and your 5 course meals. Fatty.

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

lol.  He’s literally refuted factual stats with opinion and seems to think doing nothing against Jets, Lions and Pats was a good stretch of games lol.  

 

But it’s still been a fun ride regardless

Dude, I’m surprised you even got that out considering all of the haymakers you’ve been receiving.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 7/31/2019 at 4:21 PM, freddyjj said:

Was at camp today and have to say Robert Foster might be the better bet to not be on the roster Opening Day.

 

Seems to consistently drop balls in reporting . What did you see? 

[Hsker4life]

Let me help you out Alpha.

 

Ready?

 

It’s simple, yet so hard for many.

 

Here it is:

 

”I was wrong.”

 

That’s all you have to say.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Hsker4life

[Bills fan in 561]

I think Zay was only credited to 3 drops last year

[Dopey]