Report: Bengals looking to trade WR John Ross

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m not saying Andy Dalton is great.  But he is a qb that has been to playoffs multiple times so it makes a lot more sense why they would have passed on Mahomes.  Still, I didn’t get the Ross pick for them.  It didn’t seem like a huge need.

It’s weird because he did have that combine time but he’s become a weird red zone threat.  He had 7 tds on 21 catches and 210 yards.  That’s like TE numbers, not small fast guy stats.

The Bengals lost Marvin Jones and Mohammed Sanu in the same free agent class, and their offense suffered for it. 

 

It was a definite need for them.

[billvernsays]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Marcell Dareus was a semi-proven top-end talent (when he bothered to try) and he was traded for a 5th round pick.  Ross is younger and on a much cheaper contract, but has zero success so far.  Maybe he is worth a 5th as well, but I wouldn't trade more than that for him.

Dareus wasn’t traded for a 5th because he’s a 5th round talent however When you look at his contract vs his production that’s how you come up with the 5th round value. Ross is in a different spot, His contract is still pretty reasonable, but he hasn’t shown anything in the league yet. I think the pick we got for McCarron is the move. He could push McCloud and McKenzie for our burner spot, if any of the 3 work out as a long term WR it’s a win for Buffalo. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Reminds me of Goodwin.  Never reached potential here and really broke out with a new team.  Only to get injured again.

A fourth. Sure.  Nothing higher than that.  

[Da webster guy]

He was def overdrafted but if he were thrown into this year's WR heavy draft, i'd think Ross would go somewhere in 3rd round.

Not sure about work ethic, motivation, brains, personality etc.  That weighs huge with our team.

[26TrapDraw]

15 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I will say, when’s he not hurt, he finds a way to score.  Shocking pick though he was a good player in college.  Personally, I think it would be stupid for the Bengals to trade him now since his value is so low. 

 

But if it was for a 3rd or later, I’d be really interesting (depending on his physical). I love former 1st round picks who struggle on their first team.  

Agreed. Jerry Hughes says Hi.

[ProcessTruster]

17 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I will say, when’s he not hurt, he finds a way to score.  Shocking pick though he was a good player in college.  Personally, I think it would be stupid for the Bengals to trade him now since his value is so low. 

 

But if it was for a 3rd or later, I’d be really interesting (depending on his physical). I love former 1st round picks who struggle on their first team.  

wasn't Kelvin Benjamin pretty much like this?

[BobChalmers]

For as little as the Bengals are probably asking (article says 5th), GET IT DONE!

 

18 hours ago, wppete said:

Yes it’s worth a trade. Give them a 4th round pick 

 

Sounds like they'd take even less than that, which makes it a no-brainer in this WR market.

Edited February 27, 2019 by BobChalmers

[stuvian]

Dude has serious jets. It's worth a look

[Doc]

Or just wait for them to release him.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

wasn't Kelvin Benjamin pretty much like this?

No KB was very productive in Carolina early on. He had over 1000 yards as a rookie. He got phased out later. Ross had 0 yards as a rookie, and he wasn’t hurt the whole time. Marvin Lewis hated him. He improved last year but apparently not enough as Zac Taylor doesn’t want him 

[racketmaster]

I like the idea of having a speed guy paired with a qb who can launch the ball downfield. Think Mahomes and Tyreek Hill connection. I realize Ross is not as good as Hill but he really has been playing with a weaker armed quarterback that has not allowed him to maximize his strength. 

 

Getting Ross with a mid round pick (4th round) would allow the Bills to focus on building the offensive line and tight end position. Bills would have enough outside weapons in Foster, Williams and Ross as they all bring different attributes to the table. If we could improve offensive line in free agency and 2nd round we could snag Hockenson in first and add a mid round running back. The weapons on offense would be much improved from last year. 

[Saint Doug]

I think this trading away our 4th for basically a bust is a bad idea. A 4th is a very valuable asset. For example, we picked up Taron Johnson in the 4th and even Milano in the 5th (we had no 4th 2 years ago). Would you trade either of them (or even a player as promising as them) for a player who has never played up to his potential? I’ll roll my dice in the draft. 

[racketmaster]

19 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Honestly, how many have we had now?  I really have trouble keeping track.

 

Matthews

Benjamin

Coleman

 

Is there another one that I am just not remembering?

I get the above wr moves have not worked out but they have mostly been minimal risks. 

Matthews came in a trade for Darby plus we got a 3rd round pick which was the real asset in the deal for a CB that did not fit our scheme. Essentially, Matthews was a throw in bonus player that did not work out. Had we traded Darby for a 3rd round pick and nothing else, it would be still a fair deal. 

 

Benjamin for a 3rd was a miss and probably the biggest mistake Beane has made thus far. But he took a shot on a player that had performed well early in his career and just lost it with knee injuries. This was still a 3rd round pick and a lot of 3rd round picks end up being busts so it is hard to kill Beane for this too much. We were unexpectedly in a playoff race and I think he felt compelled to try and make a move to help the team break the drought. 

 

Coleman for a 7th. The vast majority of 7th round picks fail so it was worth a shot at a former first round talent. We took Proehl in the 7th last year and cut him. That is the norm for that draft pick so we really did not lose anything. 

 

With Ross, the speed and talent is there. It really comes down to can he stay healthy. Likely, he is a Goodwin type that struggles with various leg injuries because he is such a quick twitch athlete. But during the brief periods Goodwin has been healthy he has been a threat and productive player. If we could get a 1000 yard season out of Ross for a 4th it might still be worth it if it helps us win for a year. 

 

So so even though it has not exactly worked out with the 3 previous moves, I like the idea of trading mid to low round picks for young 1st and 2nd round talents. Sooner or later you will hit on one of those deals and it can pay big dividends. Remember, Moulds was considered a bust after 2 years as well. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by racketmaster

[Putin]

22 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

I like the idea of having a speed guy paired with a qb who can launch the ball downfield. Think Mahomes and Tyreek Hill connection. I realize Ross is not as good as Hill but he really has been playing with a weaker armed quarterback that has not allowed him to maximize his strength. 

 

Getting Ross with a mid round pick (4th round) would allow the Bills to focus on building the offensive line and tight end position. Bills would have enough outside weapons in Foster, Williams and Ross as they all bring different attributes to the table. If we could improve offensive line in free agency and 2nd round we could snag Hockenson in first and add a mid round running back. The weapons on offense would be much improved from last year. 

Really?

By Bringing in Ross and Williams we can just move on and start working on OL/TE ? 

Even if we do trade for Ross I’m not even sure he or Williams are even making the team , both haven’t proven that they even belong in the NFL , we need to draft a stud a true # 1 WR , 

 

[racketmaster]

3 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I think this trading away our 4th for basically a bust is a bad idea. A 4th is a very valuable asset. For example, we picked up Taron Johnson in the 4th and even Milano in the 5th (we had no 4th 2 years ago). Would you trade either of them (or even a player as promising as them) for a player who has never played up to his potential? I’ll roll my dice in the draft. 

Recent Bills 4th and 5th round picks:

2018: Tarron Johnson, Siran Neal and Wyatt Teller

2017: Matt Millano and Nathan Peterman

2016: Cardale Jones and Jonathan Williams

2015: Karlos Williams

2014: Ross Cockrell and Cyril Richardson

2013: Duke Williams and Jonathan Meeks

2012: Ron Brooks, Zebre Sanders and Tank Carder

2011: D’Norris Searcy, Chris Hariston and Johnny White

2010: Marcus Easley and Ed Wang

 

I don’t want to minimize the value of a 4th or 5th round pick but it is relatively rare you are going to miss out on a really good player in those rounds. More often than not you are talking about special teams players and solid depth rather than difference makers. So I think it is worth the risk for the shot at a difference maker (elite speed guy that would be a good fit with a qb that has a rocket arm). 

[racketmaster]

28 minutes ago, Putin said:

Really?

By Bringing in Ross and Williams we can just move on and start working on OL/TE ? 

Even if we do trade for Ross I’m not even sure he or Williams are even making the team , both haven’t proven that they even belong in the NFL , we need to draft a stud a true # 1 WR , 

 

I believe Williams and Ross are top tier talents and Foster really showed flashes of being a number 1 or 2 wr last year. So do I believe the Bills would be done making moves at the wr position beyond next year, heck no. But you would be adding Williams and Ross into the mix plus you may still use a later draft pick or veteran free agent that comes at a reasonable price. Bills could again attack the wr position in 2020 if needed. 

 

In the meantime, we could focus our assets ($ and picks) on the line and tight end spot. A legit tight end like Hockenson could be huge and just as much of an impact as a wr. We have a lot of holes and still need help on defense and we only have so much $ and picks. And let's not forget that the RB position needs a major upgrade in talent and that can be a tremendous help to a young quarterback. Plus, rookie RBs are more likely to become impact players as opposed to wrs, especially if we werr to use a mid round pick.

 

Put another way, if Bills used a 4th or 5th on a wr would anybody be thinking that we just upgraded that spot? I think getting Ross instead has a better chance of helping us improve the wr spot next year. Its a risk but I think it is still worth taking. 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by racketmaster

[blacklabel]

I can see them taking an honest look at this situation. They've been trying to add one of those small, burner-type receivers since Beane got here. They traded for that Kaelin Clay kid, he didn't work out. They drafted McCloud, picked up McKenzie off waivers, signed Victor Bolden off San Fran's practice squad. It's pretty clear that they really want a player that fits Ross' mold. I guess I wouldn't be surprised to hear Buffalo being kicked around as one of the teams with interest.

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

I like the idea of having a speed guy paired with a qb who can launch the ball downfield. Think Mahomes and Tyreek Hill connection. I realize Ross is not as good as Hill but he really has been playing with a weaker armed quarterback that has not allowed him to maximize his strength. 

 

Getting Ross with a mid round pick (4th round) would allow the Bills to focus on building the offensive line and tight end position. Bills would have enough outside weapons in Foster, Williams and Ross as they all bring different attributes to the table. If we could improve offensive line in free agency and 2nd round we could snag Hockenson in first and add a mid round running back. The weapons on offense would be much improved from last year. 

Just some perspective.  Pats got Randy Moss from the Raiders for a 4th in 2007.  Granted he was 30 at the time but he was a multi time all pro

 

Bengals will likely get a 6th for Ross who has done nothing to date. 

 

[Saint Doug]

36 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

Recent Bills 4th and 5th round picks:

2018: Tarron Johnson, Siran Neal and Wyatt Teller

2017: Matt Millano and Nathan Peterman

2016: Cardale Jones and Jonathan Williams

2015: Karlos Williams

2014: Ross Cockrell and Cyril Richardson

2013: Duke Williams and Jonathan Meeks

2012: Ron Brooks, Zebre Sanders and Tank Carder

2011: D’Norris Searcy, Chris Hariston and Johnny White

2010: Marcus Easley and Ed Wang

 

I don’t want to minimize the value of a 4th or 5th round pick but it is relatively rare you are going to miss out on a really good player in those rounds. More often than not you are talking about special teams players and solid depth rather than difference makers. So I think it is worth the risk for the shot at a difference maker (elite speed guy that would be a good fit with a qb that has a rocket arm). 

I don’t think going back 8 years is appropriate. Different people are selecting the players now, not Whaley, who was notorious for whiffing on draft picks. That’s why I only looked at the last 2 drafts. I’m not saying our 4th rounders from here out will be stars, but the last 2 drafts contain some very promising young players. Ross has already proven he hasn’t lived up to his potential. I wouldn’t give them anything higher than a 6th. 

[racketmaster]

2 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I don’t think going back 8 years is appropriate. Different people are selecting the players now, not Whaley, who was notorious for whiffing on draft picks. That’s why I only looked at the last 2 drafts. I’m not saying our 4th rounders from here out will be stars, but the last 2 drafts contain some very promising young players. Ross has already proven he hasn’t lived up to his potential. I wouldn’t give them anything higher than a 6th. 

We could have gone back further as 2 drafts is an extremely small sample size. In addition, it is so early that the careers of players like Taron Johnson could go in many directions. I only took the Bills drafts because they are players that we all recognize and can easily place values on as opposed to the other 31 teams. Expecting top talent in the 4th and 5th rounds is unreasonable and the odds will show that there are many more depth, special teams and players that barely make an impact than guys that become difference makers.

 

I'll put it this way: If we acquired Ross, I think the conservative odds of Ross putting up a 1000 yard season and 8-9 TDs would be at about 20%. He is a top tier talent and really just mostly needs to stay healthy and have a deep ball qb in order to be a productive player. If we drafted a wr in the 4th or 5th round this year, I'd say the chances or that pick putting up the 1000 yard 8-9 td season is less than 5%. I'm just playing the odds here and would prefer to take a shot at the players with the higher odds.

 

And you may counter with the draft pick might have the better odds of being a productive player in years 2, 3, 4 and 5 after being developed. That's possible, but I still think the odds of a 4th or 5th round wr having that type of season at anytime in their career is less than 20%.