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Robert Kraft charged in prostitution ring bust (Update: Now requesting jury trial)

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25 minutes ago, bbb said:

Who is in the top ten this week?  

 

I didn't write that, but I would guess probably a different ten than the previous week since they've probably been shut down.

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40 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's still against the law.  How many people got busted for harmless weed offenses, and now weed is becoming legal all over the country?  It's not an excuse.

 

Yes it is, so fine him the appropriate sum and move on.   Don't blow it up into a bigger thing than it is.

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28 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Yes it is, so fine him the appropriate sum and move on.   Don't blow it up into a bigger thing than it is.

 

He broke the law and was offered a plea deal KD.  He rejected it.  The only one blowing it up into a bigger thing is Kraft.

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1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

He broke the law and was offered a plea deal KD.  He rejected it.  The only one blowing it up into a bigger thing is Kraft.

 

Nevermind, just read back a page and you guys have covered my comment

 

 

Edited by Herc11

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8 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

I'm sure that he chose the trial by jury because it gives his legal defense team an opportunity to try and make that tape go away. I think he's more worried about the tape getting released. The amount his legal defense team is getting for this misdemeanor is far and above what the fine would cost.

 

I also think that he's only worried about the tape getting out.  But since the DA isn't budging from releasing it, there's no reason for him to accept the plea deal and drag this out as long as he can.  But he won't be able to do that forever.

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2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah they're lame excuses.  Just because every defense lawyer uses them doesn't make them less so.  Again trying to get this thrown-out on a technicality when the technicality wasn't the reason they broke the law is no different than all the whining you've done over the years about athletes getting away with breaking the law.

 

No the Philly DA wasn't explicit in what he said: he was very vague, obviously for the benefit of the cop who witnesses agreed started the fight and had Shady's friend in a headlock on the floor.  As for standing, I haven't said anything about it but Koko's told you several times now.

 

And you yourself said the plea deal was lame...why?  That's right, because it made him admit that he would be found guilty in a trial AND the video would be released.  That's a "win" in anyone's book and avoids wasting time and money. 

 

And the video can be released to the public even if ruled inadmissible in court.

 

 

True, Kraft can ride this pony and end up with a sore crotch (which means needing to find another rub and tug joint pronto!)  And the DA has the video and someone ready to roll on Bobby, which is why he's not budging on offering a lesser plea deal.

 

 

It's still against the law.  How many people got busted for harmless weed offenses, and now weed is becoming legal all over the country?  It's not an excuse.

 

Lame excuses?  What if they are true?  Every defendant would try to get off on a a technicality!  You have even said you would too.  SO what on earth are you arguing about at this point?

 

Your own quote from the Philly DA said he couldn't tell which side was telling the truth...so he filed no charges (although he was kicking a guy who was on the ground and of no possible threat to McCoy).  You claimed that was proof of McCoy's innocence--you're the Don Trump of this thread!

 

koko went quiet when he couldn't find anyone who also says the perps have no standing to challenge that video....

 

There really can't be a "lesser deal" than: "we won't even charge you with a crime!".  So I don't know what you're getting at there either. 

 

The DA here just had eat a huge sh--t sandwich that he himself prepared when (finally) admitting the obvious--there was no human trafficking.  Ne "sex slaves".  No "iceberg".   Now his only chance to save face is hope a judge allows for the release of the that would likely be ruled inadmissible in court--so that Kraft and the other solicitors of pleasure can be convicted where he clearly can't convict them---in the court of public opinion.  

 

Is he saying "we will see all of these men in court where the state will present its case"?  No.  He's saying "i'm sure these tapes are going to be released to the public".

 

His office already has it's first lawsuit over the tape.  When the press requests that they all are released, many more lawsuits will follow--and they will be indefensible.  

 

Unless the DA knows a good lawyer...

 

 

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5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah they're lame excuses.  Just because every defense lawyer uses them doesn't make them less so.  Again trying to get this thrown-out on a technicality when the technicality wasn't the reason they broke the law is no different than all the whining you've done over the years about athletes getting away with breaking the law.

 

No the Philly DA wasn't explicit in what he said: he was very vague, obviously for the benefit of the cop who witnesses agreed started the fight and had Shady's friend in a headlock on the floor.  As for standing, I haven't said anything about it but Koko's told you several times now.

 

And you yourself said the plea deal was lame...why?  That's right, because it made him admit that he would be found guilty in a trial AND the video would be released.  That's a "win" in anyone's book and avoids wasting time and money. 

 

And the video can be released to the public even if ruled inadmissible in court.

 

 

True, Kraft can ride this pony and end up with a sore crotch (which means needing to find another rub and tug joint pronto!)  And the DA has the video and someone ready to roll on Bobby, which is why he's not budging on offering a lesser plea deal.

 

 

It's still against the law.  How many people got busted for harmless weed offenses, and now weed is becoming legal all over the country?  It's not an excuse.

Didn’t you learn anything from WWII? Opening up multiple battle fronts is asinine. You have an attachment to an outcome and can’t see the moment for what it is. Kraft is a Titan of industry and has friends in high places in multiple locations. This thing goes away and  you are the one left with a sore crotch.... maybe you try some of that weed. You can get it in every state with ease, legal or not. Just sayin’ 

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3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Lame excuses?  What if they are true?  Every defendant would try to get off on a a technicality!  You have even said you would too.  SO what on earth are you arguing about at this point?

 

Your own quote from the Philly DA said he couldn't tell which side was telling the truth...so he filed no charges (although he was kicking a guy who was on the ground and of no possible threat to McCoy).  You claimed that was proof of McCoy's innocence--you're the Don Trump of this thread!

 

koko went quiet when he couldn't find anyone who also says the perps have no standing to challenge that video....

 

There really can't be a "lesser deal" than: "we won't even charge you with a crime!".  So I don't know what you're getting at there either. 

 

The DA here just had eat a huge sh--t sandwich that he himself prepared when (finally) admitting the obvious--there was no human trafficking.  Ne "sex slaves".  No "iceberg".   Now his only chance to save face is hope a judge allows for the release of the that would likely be ruled inadmissible in court--so that Kraft and the other solicitors of pleasure can be convicted where he clearly can't convict them---in the court of public opinion.  

 

Is he saying "we will see all of these men in court where the state will present its case"?  No.  He's saying "i'm sure these tapes are going to be released to the public".

 

His office already has it's first lawsuit over the tape.  When the press requests that they all are released, many more lawsuits will follow--and they will be indefensible.  

 

Unless the DA knows a good lawyer...

 

What if what is true?  That installing the cameras, no matter how it was accomplished, was the reason why he committed the crime, or that he should get out of being punished for the crime he committed?  I mean, even you have admitted he committed a crime.  So any attempts to get out of facing the legal consequences of his actions are lame excuses (especially the "it would be pornography!" laugher).  At least this is what you'd say if it were a Bills player or coach.  And we all know it.  I'm just making you look like the hypocrite you are.

 

The Philly DA's statement, along with the eyewitness accounts, prove he was coming to the defense of his friend (it's what friends do for each other).  But even if we were to take the DA's statement at face value, there's still no evidence to charge him on, oh Adam Schiff of this thread.

 

Koko just doesn't want to waste time.  I don't blame.  I OTOH like to see you twist yourself into a pretzel "not defending" Bobby, unlike how you've "defended" other people who have committed crimes, whether real or alleged.

 

And the DA isn't eating anything.  He got a bunch of billionaires getting their prostates emptied on video multiple times.  The punishments are secondary to the ***** sandwiches those guys are going to have to eat daily when people start seeing those videos.  I bet they'd wish they had been involved in a bar fight instead.

Edited by Doc

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9 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What if what is true?  That installing the cameras, no matter how it was accomplished, was the reason why he committed the crime, or that he should get out of being punished for the crime he committed?  I mean, even you have admitted he committed a crime.  So any attempts to get out of facing the legal consequences of his actions are lame excuses (especially the "it would be pornography!" laugher).  At least this is what you'd say if it were a Bills player or coach.  And we all know it.  I'm just making you look like the hypocrite you are.

 

The Philly DA's statement, along with the eyewitness accounts, prove he was coming to the defense of his friend (it's what friends do for each other).  But even if we were to take the DA's statement at face value, there's still no evidence to charge him on, oh Adam Schiff of this thread.

 

Koko just doesn't want to waste time.  I don't blame.  I OTOH like to see you twist yourself into a pretzel "not defending" Bobby, unlike how you've "defended" other people who have committed crimes, whether real or alleged.

 

And the DA isn't eating anything.  He got a bunch of billionaires getting their prostates emptied on video multiple times.  The punishments are secondary to the ***** sandwiches those guys are going to have to eat daily when people start seeing those videos.  I bet they'd wish they had been involved in a bar fight instead.

 

 

In this country, evidence obtained illegally or under false pretense is not admissible in court.  If it is true that the video /warrant was improperly obtained, these dependents have a right to challenge the evidence against them, whether we think they are guilty or not.  Are you really arguing otherwise?  You can't because you've already conceded this is what you or anyone would do.

 

The cops were so happy for the Philly DA refused to charge McCoy that they roasted him in public:  "in Philadelphia, a vicious assault on off-duty police officers by a rich athlete and his friends goes completely unpunished. Why aren't there any Civilian Review Boards looking into this outrage. (sic) For the police in Philadelphia, justice delayed is justice denied." 

 

Philly cops sure have a funny way of saying "thank you"!

 

Do you agree that these defendants have no standing to challenge the video, despite no one else claiming this in all the coverage of this story?  Simple question.

 

The PB DA embarrassed himself and his office with his press conference about his "human trafficking"  fantasy, and subsequent collapse of that whole case.  He knew there was no trafficking going on.  This should be clear by his failure to act for the several months he took to amass hundreds of peeping Tom vids to catch "bunch of billionaires". 

 

Look, this keeps coming back to your unnatural affinity for LeSean McCoy.  It's getting creepy.  Accept him for what he is: a bad man and a decent RB at the terminus of his career.  Find a better hero to worship---maybe I'll join you!

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7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

In this country, evidence obtained illegally or under false pretense is not admissible in court.  If it is true that the video /warrant was improperly obtained, these dependents have a right to challenge the evidence against them, whether we think they are guilty or not.  Are you really arguing otherwise?  You can't because you've already conceded this is what you or anyone would do.

 

The cops were so happy for the Philly DA refused to charge McCoy that they roasted him in public:  "in Philadelphia, a vicious assault on off-duty police officers by a rich athlete and his friends goes completely unpunished. Why aren't there any Civilian Review Boards looking into this outrage. (sic) For the police in Philadelphia, justice delayed is justice denied." 

 

Philly cops sure have a funny way of saying "thank you"!

 

Do you agree that these defendants have no standing to challenge the video, despite no one else claiming this in all the coverage of this story?  Simple question.

 

The PB DA embarrassed himself and his office with his press conference about his "human trafficking"  fantasy, and subsequent collapse of that whole case.  He knew there was no trafficking going on.  This should be clear by his failure to act for the several months he took to amass hundreds of peeping Tom vids to catch "bunch of billionaires". 

 

Look, this keeps coming back to your unnatural affinity for LeSean McCoy.  It's getting creepy.  Accept him for what he is: a bad man and a decent RB at the terminus of his career.  Find a better hero to worship---maybe I'll join you!

 

Nope, not arguing that he shouldn't try and challenge the validity of the video.  Just saying that it had no bearing on the fact that he committed a crime.  Again if this were someone you didn't like, you'd be guffawing about how he's an idiot for doing what he did, trying to get out of what was an obvious crime, and for not taking the plea deal, no matter how laughable you thought the deal was.  But I guess the good part is we won't be hearing any guffawing from you in the future when a Bills player gets in trouble, and I look forward to hearing your defense plans for them.

 

Of course the cops were unhappy.  They got their asses kicked and got no money from it.  Because their story was refuted by witnesses.  They were hoping for at least one charge so they could file a civil suit against Shady.  The DA saw through it and told them to go get their shine boxes.  You have to be the only person in the world to think that any DA would favor an athlete over his own cops.  Unless Shady was claiming racism and had some connection to Obama...

 

I don't think they have standing but realize that his lawyers will argue that they do.  In any case, the video is being shopped around as we speak, so it's coming out whether anyone likes it or not, and that's the worst outcome for Bobby.

 

At least Shady plays for my team.  What's your excuse?

Edited by Doc

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How did you conclude they don’t have standing?

 

Everything else you just posted is starkly symptomatic of what I was talking about regarding your fixation with McCoy or other Bills players who were boneheads.  Many here pointed out they were boneheads because they didn’t struggle with the obvious while still being fans.

 

Ive acknowledged Krafts a POS.  I’ve said he’s guilty.  Then I went on to post items found everywhere on the internet regarding this issue, we both agree that Kraft and his lawyer are doing exactly what you, me and any one would do.....and yet you are still flailing away with “I can’t believe you’re ‘defending’ Kraft!!!!”.   

 

ok.  You win.  I just feel bad for a full grown man who feels the need to engage in this kind of hero worship.  Even the lion grows bored feasting on the slowest oldest gazelle. There’s no guffawing,  just slow head shaking at this point.  

 

 Take the  W.  

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Oh, the hypocrisy!  Go gently when Bobby's video gets released.

 

And thanks, but I took the W awhile ago. 

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On 4/18/2019 at 6:43 PM, Doc said:

 

He broke the law and was offered a plea deal KD.  He rejected it.  The only one blowing it up into a bigger thing is Kraft.

 

Well, I feel like you may have teed this up, but there was one other person involved in this story who did exactly that.

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1 hour ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Well, I feel like you may have teed this up, but there was one other person involved in this story who did exactly that.

 

I missed that. 

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PR wise IMO the prosecution blew it-their intent was to cast Kraft as a villain and now by pushing this tape out there they turn the guy into something of a martyr (I am sure NE fans feel that way)-really this isn't a lot different from the guv secretly taping Robert Kraft taking a dump and then pushing the tape onto the internet to try to hurt the guy somehow-and let's be honest-anyone excited to watch a tape of Kraft getting tugged would probably be just as excited to watch a tape of the guy taking a dump. 

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22 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Nope, not arguing that he shouldn't try and challenge the validity of the video.  Just saying that it had no bearing on the fact that he committed a crime.  Again if this were someone you didn't like, you'd be guffawing about how he's an idiot for doing what he did, trying to get out of what was an obvious crime, and for not taking the plea deal, no matter how laughable you thought the deal was.  But I guess the good part is we won't be hearing any guffawing from you in the future when a Bills player gets in trouble, and I look forward to hearing your defense plans for them.

 

Of course the cops were unhappy.  They got their asses kicked and got no money from it.  Because their story was refuted by witnesses.  They were hoping for at least one charge so they could file a civil suit against Shady.  The DA saw through it and told them to go get their shine boxes.  You have to be the only person in the world to think that any DA would favor an athlete over his own cops.  Unless Shady was claiming racism and had some connection to Obama...

 

I don't think they have standing but realize that his lawyers will argue that they do.  In any case, the video is being shopped around as we speak, so it's coming out whether anyone likes it or not, and that's the worst outcome for Bobby.

 

At least Shady plays for my team.  What's your excuse?

With respect to your first two sentences if the legal procedures were not followed by the police authorities then the case is usually dismissed by the judicial system. You may not like it but the bigger transgression is when the authorities misuse their authority than the actual criminal act, especially in this case that is not a serious transgression. 

 

I don't understand the argument that Kraft and his attorneys don't have the standing to challenge the tape evidence used against him when that is exactly what he is doing. I'm not predicting whether he will prevail in this evidence issue but the fact that he is challenging it indicates that he has the standing to do so. 

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45 minutes ago, Toesy said:

PR wise IMO the prosecution blew it-their intent was to cast Kraft as a villain and now by pushing this tape out there they turn the guy into something of a martyr (I am sure NE fans feel that way)-really this isn't a lot different from the guv secretly taping Robert Kraft taking a dump and then pushing the tape onto the internet to try to hurt the guy somehow-and let's be honest-anyone excited to watch a tape of Kraft getting tugged would probably be just as excited to watch a tape of the guy taking a dump. 

 

Except that taking a dump isn't illegal.  And no one thinks Bobby is a martyr.  The tape will get out so he's a fool for thinking that dragging things out will make it any better for him.

 

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

With respect to your first two sentences if the legal procedures were not followed by the police authorities then the case is usually dismissed by the judicial system. You may not like it but the bigger transgression is when the authorities misuse their authority than the actual criminal act, especially in this case that is not a serious transgression. 

 

I don't understand the argument that Kraft and his attorneys don't have the standing to challenge the tape evidence used against him when that is exactly what he is doing. I'm not predicting whether he will prevail in this evidence issue but the fact that he is challenging it indicates that he has the standing to do so. 

 

Yes I understand that evidence of a crime can be dismissed based on a technicality.  That still doesn't mean that a crime wasn't committed.  The manner in which the cameras were installed wasn't the reason Bobby broke the law.  And that's why I don't think he has standing to challenge the evidence.

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10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

 

Yes I understand that evidence of a crime can be dismissed based on a technicality.  That still doesn't mean that a crime wasn't committed.  The manner in which the cameras were installed wasn't the reason Bobby broke the law.  And that's why I don't think he has standing to challenge the evidence.

If the tape was impermissibly installed it couldn't be used in his case. There are plenty of crimes that are committed that are dismissed or don't result in a conviction for a lot of legal (technical) reasons. The bigger criminal justice concern revolved around human trafficking. A serious crime. That case didn't materialize. The ancillary issue regarding paid for stimulating massaging on a 77 yr old widower is a low grade violation. This case should be dropped because it is not worthy of the  time and effort of the public authorities. 

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32 minutes ago, Doc said:

The manner in which the cameras were installed wasn't the reason Bobby broke the law.  And that's why I don't think he has standing to challenge the evidence.

 

Fruit of the poisonous tree...

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If the tape was impermissibly installed it couldn't be used in his case. There are plenty of crimes that are committed that are dismissed or don't result in a conviction for a lot of legal (technical) reasons. The bigger criminal justice concern revolved around human trafficking. A serious crime. That case didn't materialize. The ancillary issue regarding paid for stimulating massaging on a 77 yr old widower is a low grade violation. This case should be dropped because it is not worthy of the  time and effort of the public authorities. 

 

True the bigger concern revolved around human trafficking...as it pertained to sex slaves engaging in prostitution.  Which is exactly what Bobby got busted for, minus having a sex slave being used (I would assume he got to choose the non-sex slave, considering his wealth).  Whether it can't be used in the case remains to be seen and the only reason Bobby isn't taking the plea deal and wasting the time and effort of everyone is because he wants the tapes sealed.  That's not going to happen.

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