LeSean McCoy

[Turk71]

2 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I think Shady stays as veteran leadership on an offense that will be revamped this year with many new players.  Who is the veteran leadership on offense if not Shady?  Allen has great leadership traits but is only a second year player.  Is there a solid veteran leader on the O-line?  Nope.  Who’s the veteran wide receiver?  Ummmm....  

 

You need to have veteran leadership and by all accounts Allen and Shady have a great relationship and Shady has bought into the Process.  Shady is not the player he once was, but he is still respected in the locker room and around the league.  Keep him as a third down back and keep him for veteran leadership.  It will be money well spent.

 

The 3rd highest paid rb in the NFL this coming season is gonna be a 3rd down back we keep for his 'veteran leadership'? Shady doesn't strike me as the greatest role model or leader of men and that's not what the team needs from the highest paid, oldest, and lowest producing backfield in the league anyway. I don't consider that money well spent. What the team needs is young talented rbs to lead by playing well and scoring tds imo. Lets get some guys who are hungry to prove themselves and get over the sentimentality of hanging on to guys whose play no longer justifies their pay. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Turk71

[McNubbins]

Definitely don't release, trade for what you can get, draft a young stud.  He's getting up there and has lost a step imo.

Edited February 17, 2019 by McNubbins

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

The 3rd highest paid rb in the NFL this coming season is gonna be a 3rd down back we keep for his 'veteran leadership'? Shady doesn't strike me as a greatest role model or leader of men and that's not what this team needs from the highest paid, oldest, and lowest producing backfield in the league anyway. I don't consider that money well spent. What the team needs is young talented rbs to lead by playing well and scoring tds imo. Lets get some guys who are hungry to prove themselves and get over the sentimentality of hanging on to guys whose play no longer justifies their pay. 

 

You under value the effect of good veteran leadership in a locker room full of young players.  If we were strapped for cash your case to cut Shady might be stronger, but we’re not going to be able to spend all of the cap money we have now.  

 

To use a military analogy, the coaches are the officers, a good veteran player who accepts a leadership role is like a good NCO or sergeant.  They keep the young bucks in line.  They set the example of how a professional prepares for a game and how a professional carries himself.  Great NCOs are the backbone of a military unit and veteran players who believe in the team’s Process are the backbone of a successful team’s locker room.

 

I think you might underestimate how hard it is to lead and motivate a room filled with 21 year old millionaires, and how vitally important it is to have the right attitude in a locker room.  The coaches can only do so much, it’s the veteran players in the locker room that really hold the young guys accountable. The veterans provide positive peer pressure and lead by example.  This is how you show up everyday to work, this is how you practice, this is how you prepare for a game, this is how you watch film.  This is how you have long term success in the league, watch what I do.  Leadership 101.

 

Any organization, no matter how skilled the individual members are, will fail without the right leadership. That’s why McBeane is willing to pay Shady this year, and why I respectfully think you’re wrong. 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Inigo Montoya

[Turk71]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

You under value the effect of good veteran leadership in a locker room full of young players.  If we were strapped for cash your case to cut Shady might be stronger, but we’re not going to be able to spend all of the cap money we have now.  

 

To use a military analogy, the coaches are the officers, a good veteran player who accepts a leadership role is like a good NCO or sergeant.  They keep the young bucks in line.  They set the example of how a professional prepares for a game and how a professional carries himself.  Great NCOs are the backbone of a military unit and veteran players who believe in the team’s Process are the backbone of a successful team’s locker room.

 

I think you might underestimate how hard it is to lead and motivate a room filled with 21 year old millionaires, and how vitally important it is to have the right attitude in a locker room.  The coaches can only do so much, it’s the veteran players in the locker room that really hold the young guys accountable. The veterans provide positive peer pressure and lead by example.  This is how you show up everyday to work, this is how you practice, this is how you prepare for a game, this is how you watch film.  This is how you have long term success in the league, watch what I do.  Leadership 101.

 

Any organization, no matter how skilled the individual members are, will fail without the right leadership. That’s why McBeane is willing to pay Shady this year, and why I respectfully think you’re wrong. 

 

I respect the role leadership plays in an organization like a football team. With a constant influx of young cocky guys that need to 'get with the program'. The problem is the Bills spent the most in the league on rbs and were the least productive. The line was bad, but the rbs were not good either.      If you are paying McCoy 9 mil this year (3rd in league) to be a role player and a veteran leader you aren't getting near the production that money could buy. There are a few guys in fa I would love for the Bills to have and they will sign somewhere for about 3 to 6 per, which means the 15 mil the Bills spent last year would have been enough to pay 3 of the top fa not named Bell and still have money left over. I like the idea of having 2 or 3 talented backs and at least 2 that are good receivers. The committee approach leaves you far less vulnerable to injuries when they inevitably happen. 

    Just spending cap money because you have it is a bad idea. Spend it on solid to top notch talent and roll the rest over to next year. 

  Anyways thnx for disagreeing respectfully, as I do with you. I appreciate the civil discourse.

[YodaMan79]

Turk71, I couldn't agree with you more.  Also, McCoy isn't the guy I would want as the NCO or sergeant keeping the young kids in line.  As I've stated before, his talent level doesn't justify his aggravation quotient anymore.  He'll be last person to know he's cooked, still thinking he's elite, potentially causing issues like late last year.  As another poster stated, he doesn't pass the "eye test" anymore.  Bills fans are quick to give this guy the benefit of the doubt for some reason?  He gets the respect of an all timer, here.  I'll admit that I'm bias and not a fan, but he's been paid as a top tier back, and while he's been good, I think he's fallen short of that status.  Factor in his age, past transgressions and where this team is heading, they should rip the bandaid off now.  At this point he's just a name, two top tier FA RBs and a draft pick could easily out produce him, while hopefully providing a foundational piece for the next 3-5 years.  My stance isn't about money, I wan't a core of young skill position players developing together with Josh Allen as their leader, and possibly a guy like Pierre Garcon in WR room.  Read up on how he's helped in SF.  The less influence a guy like McCoy has in the locker room the better.  Unless the Bills want him to tutor the young guys on how to tip, drop women off on the side of the road during winter, attack police officers, work with a corrupt DA and be the new face of the Chris Carter class of how to find a fall guy and not get caught.  Guy is teflon... 

Edited February 17, 2019 by YodaMan79

[Turk71]

Well said Yodaman.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Turk71

[3rdand12]

23 hours ago, Believer said:

McCoy has great football instincts and good hands... If he gets good blocking, he can still run between the tackles to make his dekes for long runs... If he still has the desire to play and can keep focused... the last years of his career can be in Buffalo...

Yes and thank you.
when he gets some blocking he will make them miss. he still has that.
But his game awareness cannot be quickly replaced by rookies.
How very many time i saw him wide open and looking back to Josh for the ball. with room in zone or singled up. folks may not have noticed that he was a perfect check down that was barely used. and yes, that is the best way to use him these days . his smarts to pick blocks and be/get open in short areas or sliding outside of the hashes

[Boca BIlls]

McCoy has forgotten how to do anything but dance... time for him to be on Dancing with the Stars.

[stony]

Keep him. 

 

Shady balls hard every time he steps onto the field.  The optimist in me says last season was a perfect storm of off-field distractions, Peterman, Allen, a sub-optimal OL etc.

 

I want one more look at him if the from office upgrades the OL and Allen can take a measured step in his sophomore year.    

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Put him in the slot. 

 

And run the ball with someone else. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, stony said:

Keep him. 

 

Shady balls hard every time he steps onto the field.  The optimist in me says last season was a perfect storm of off-field distractions, Peterman, Allen, a sub-optimal OL etc.

 

I want one more look at him if the from office upgrades the OL and Allen can take a measured step in his sophomore year.    

 

 

It really wasn't just last year though.

 

The league average yards per carry in the NFL is 4.2.

 

Shady has been below that league average in each of the past two seasons...........and in total over the past two seasons he has 448 carries for an average of 3.7 ypc.......a full half yard below that league average.

 

This from a scat back..........not a 230-240# power back that a lot of teams use nowadays to wear down the ever-smaller, quicker LB's.

 

I don't think the question is whether he's fallen off physically............he has..........trying to run him 15 times per game at this point makes no sense.

 

The question is can they manage him so that he can be a lot more productive with a lot less carries?

[stony]

23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It really wasn't just last year though.

 

The league average yards per carry in the NFL is 4.2.

 

Shady has been below that league average in each of the past two seasons...........and in total over the past two seasons he has 448 carries for an average of 3.7 ypc.......a full half yard below that league average.

 

This from a scat back..........not a 230-240# power back that a lot of teams use nowadays to wear down the ever-smaller, quicker LB's.

 

I don't think the question is whether he's fallen off physically............he has..........trying to run him 15 times per game at this point makes no sense.

 

The question is can they manage him so that he can be a lot more productive with a lot less carries?

Fair assessment. 

 

As some have pointed out though, there's not a huge financial incentive to release him.  

 

So the answer lies in large part to your last question...how much success can he have in a reduced role in a Josh Allen offense?  I want to think from a receiving standpoint, there's value to be had in in helping a young QB.  Regardless how you project Allen going forward, I think it's reasonable to presume the offense will be a work in progress.  If that's the case, I think he still provides value to the Allen/offense.   

[YodaMan79]

2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Yes and thank you.
when he gets some blocking he will make them miss. he still has that.
But his game awareness cannot be quickly replaced by rookies.
How very many time i saw him wide open and looking back to Josh for the ball. with room in zone or singled up. folks may not have noticed that he was a perfect check down that was barely used. and yes, that is the best way to use him these days . his smarts to pick blocks and be/get open in short areas or sliding outside of the hashes

 

Any starting caliber NFL running back can make defenders miss when they have blocking.  His game awareness?  Oh...like how he holds the ball like a loaf of bread or not hitting the hole when it's open?  Rookies at the RB position have had no problem acclimating quickly to the NFL.  Do you watch other teams in the league?  Also, the RB check down is there a lot.  You're not seeing anything pivotal or groundbreaking.  The way the LBs play in todays game, that gap of perceived space closes quickly for a short gain often.  It's in the design of the defense.  They're daring you to waste a down.  LBs 40 at the combine are close if not on par with the RBs.  

 

Your arguments are weak and observations suspect.  It's not just you, so I apologize if that sounds harsh.  I think a contingent of the fans have gotten the team they deserve.  I blame the media, too.  You've all been way too forgiving and not loud enough with displeasure.  Why settle for a guy on the wrong side of 30?  Keeping him is a classic Bills move.  As I've said before, it's not about the money, it's about progression.  He brings nothing unique anymore, he's keeping another player that has a shot to be part of the accent from developing.  To those that say put him in the slot, are you kidding me?  Too many Madden gamers on here.  Does he play hard?  Yes.  If trying hard got it done I'm sure a bunch of us would have been more successful in our athletic endeavors.  It's about production, not participation trophies.  I want the Cadillac, forget the steak knives.     

 

Questions to ask yourself:

Could he handle a reduced role, not being the Alpha?  I don't think he can.

Is he 20+ touch back?

If not, how's he going to be in the locker room?

What has he done the past two years that has looked above average?

Edited February 18, 2019 by YodaMan79

[Ol Dirty B]

11 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

Turk71, I couldn't agree with you more.  Also, McCoy isn't the guy I would want as the NCO or sergeant keeping the young kids in line.  As I've stated before, his talent level doesn't justify his aggravation quotient anymore.  He'll be last person to know he's cooked, still thinking he's elite, potentially causing issues like late last year.  As another poster stated, he doesn't pass the "eye test" anymore.  Bills fans are quick to give this guy the benefit of the doubt for some reason?  He gets the respect of an all timer, here.  I'll admit that I'm bias and not a fan, but he's been paid as a top tier back, and while he's been good, I think he's fallen short of that status.  Factor in his age, past transgressions and where this team is heading, they should rip the bandaid off now.  At this point he's just a name, two top tier FA RBs and a draft pick could easily out produce him, while hopefully providing a foundational piece for the next 3-5 years.  My stance isn't about money, I wan't a core of young skill position players developing together with Josh Allen as their leader, and possibly a guy like Pierre Garcon in WR room.  Read up on how he's helped in SF.  The less influence a guy like McCoy has in the locker room the better.  Unless the Bills want him to tutor the young guys on how to tip, drop women off on the side of the road during winter, attack police officers, work with a corrupt DA and be the new face of the Chris Carter class of how to find a fall guy and not get caught.  Guy is teflon... 

 

I hope he ends up on the wall. What a crock of... 

[YodaMan79]

The wall of what?  If you take exception to my observations on his character how am I wrong?  Are you the same guy that said he was worth a 2nd round pick around the trade deadline?  I'd expect a little more tangible content from a +964.   

[formerlyofCtown]

On 2/16/2019 at 2:55 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

They're paying him $6.1M, not that I think that changes your point.

 

My point is, the Bills have no financial driver to release him.  His salary does not become guaranteed until the 1st day of the new season (not the league year).  They are not paying him a bonus.  They have gobs of cap space.

 

If someone offers them something, they can listen.  If not, they can see how it rolls during OTA and preseason and cut him when they have someone better.

 

They don't have to make a choice "keep Shady/sign 2 good role player RBs or another good RB" - yet.

Jay Ajayi is a name that doesnt come up on this board but it is someone I would like.  I think him and Shady make a formidable backfield especially with Allen being a threat to run.

On 2/16/2019 at 7:38 PM, GreggTX said:

We can't just release the whole offense. McCoy has certainly lost a step, but we have so many holes to fill on this roster that we will never be able to fill them all in one offseason no matter how much we spend. There just isn't enough offensive talent available in FA and the draft to upgrade everywhere we need it and to replace Kyle. bolster the CB position and improve the pass rush. We need 3 new starters that are big upgrades for the OL and at least 2 WR's as well as a new starting TE. Ivory may be replaced too. I am starting to think this rebuild will take 2 more years at least.

We need to go back to back in some catagory.  Why not make it back to back years of 70 mil in dead cap.?

We will make the playoffs next season and McCoy will have 50 or more receptions and 1200 from scrimmage.

Edited February 18, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Turk71]

2 hours ago, stony said:

Fair assessment. 

 

As some have pointed out though, there's not a huge financial incentive to release him.  

 

So the answer lies in large part to your last question...how much success can he have in a reduced role in a Josh Allen offense?  I want to think from a receiving standpoint, there's value to be had in in helping a young QB.  Regardless how you project Allen going forward, I think it's reasonable to presume the offense will be a work in progress.  If that's the case, I think he still provides value to the Allen/offense.   

The financial incentive is 6.5 million dollars extra cap for letting McCoy go. Let Ivory go and its around 9 mil. extra. Look at the list of rb cap hits for last year.  https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/2018/    That 9mil cap savings would buy 2 of the top fa rbs this off-season not named Bell.    Then check out these advanced stats https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.  45th of 46 in rushing and 52nd of 53 receiving for the highest paid rb. Murphy somehow managed 4.9 ypc on 52 carries. 

   Tough to say who they could entice in fa. Being a run first kinda team might be a draw.  Just hold onto McCoy until they see what they can get, no rush. Tevin Coleman, Ingram, Ajayi, Ware, Mike Davis, CJ, Malcolm Brown etc. are all available. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Turk71

[GreggTX]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

The financial incentive is 6.5 million dollars extra cap for letting McCoy go. Let Ivory go and its around 9 mil. extra. Look at the list of rb cap hits for last year.  https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/2018/    That 9mil cap savings would buy 2 of the top fa rbs this off-season not named Bell.    Then check out these advanced stats https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.  45th of 46 in rushing and 52nd of 53 receiving for the highest paid rb. Murphy somehow managed 4.9 ypc on 52 carries. 

   Tough to say who they could entice in fa. Being a run first kinda team might be a draw.  Just hold onto McCoy until they see what they can get, no rush. Tevin Coleman, Ingram, Ajayi, Ware, Mike Davis, CJ, Malcolm Brown etc. are all available. 

 

 

Good point and I wouldn't be dissapointed as long as they don't use a day 1 or day 2 pick on a RB. I'd love to see L Bell on the Bills, but for reasonable money. We could even be a tad generous because he's a game changer.

[Turk71]

??????.  

Edited February 18, 2019 by Turk71

[Dr.Sack]

McCoy isn’t good at consistently gaining yards. His big play ability has diminished. I’d trade him, over bring him back to be a 3rd down back.