Aussie Joe Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, mannc said: Then you should not state it as a fact. Something that hasn’t occurred yet can’t be a fact.. thought that was implied.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: 7 wins is progress? 8 wins is progress? Geez, this fan base never changes. We were saying the same things when Dick Jauron was here. There will never be any real expectations in Buffalo. You're saying what you think should be done. That's fine. I'm saying what I think will happen. And I'm saying it because I think I have developed a good understanding of the process, and it seems you haven't. McBeane are all about continuous improvement. That's the process. They have a detailed development plan for every aspect of the team, on the field and off. Players get graded on all aspects of their career in Buffalo, on the field and off. They get graded on every practice, every play. If they're making good progress, they stay until they stop making progress or someone passes them. Coaches, the same thing. If McDermott keeps making progress on the goals that have been set for him, he stays. If he stops making progress, he's in trouble. The goals do NOT include making the playoffs or winning the Super Bowl. The goals are lots of small, well defined goals that represent incremental improvement. The THEORY, instead of the goal, is that if you continue to make improvement at all the goals and behaviors set out for you, the wins will follow. So, it's very possible that the team will make progress in 2019, as measured by 2019 performance compared to 2019 goals, and still go 7-9. It's similar to the mentality baseball hitters have - the objective is to see the ball and make a good swing. If you do that well, the hits will take care of themselves. I here hitters say often that they're satisfied because they got good swings. 2019 is, in a way, McBeane's first year. It's the first year they will have a roster made up completely of players they picked because they look like good fits for the process. It's the first year they'll have an entire team dedicated to and engaged in the process. It wouldn't make sense to fire them after their first season unless, as Joe said, the wheels fall off. The process should result in wins, but it isn't ABOUT wins. 13 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Something that hasn’t occurred yet can’t be a fact.. thought that was implied.. Nicely done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 10:07 AM, ScottLaw said: While teams like the Bears and Rams turn their seasons around in one year, The Bears are a good template to follow. My standard for the Bills this season is what the Bears did last season - compete for a playoff spot, and look ready to compete for a Super Bowl the following year. That is more than fair to expect given the draft picks and cap space they've left themselves. The Rams are not a good example. They recklessly spent draft picks and cap space which gave them a very short window to win the Super Bowl. That window has already begun to close, and when a bunch of their players inevitably leave they won't have the draft picks to rebuild the team. And Goff doesn't look like a championship QB. I think they're going to be in very big trouble by 2020. Last year was their shot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: The process should result in wins, but it isn't ABOUT wins. Unfortunately, the NFL is most assuredly about wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 8:48 AM, CaptnCoke11 said: And If Allen gets injured in preseason are we going to think 2021? What's the outlook of any team that loses their starting QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 why wait until 2020? go ahead and start being successful in 2019 to get the ball rolling toward taking division and beyond. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 11:12 PM, Inigo Montoya said: I think a lot of people on this board are getting too far over their skis with their expectations for the Bills this season. I think we can be in the mix for a Wild Card at the end of the season but we are not going to be making a playoff run this year. McBeane knows that. McBeane is still working on setting the table this year. He is not building a roster in this year's free agency and draft to win in 2019, he is looking at least one more year down the road. I can't speak as to McBeane's plan for the Bills. You may be right. That may be a mistake on their part if it's true. Generally speaking, a team that hangs onto its head coach and GM for more than 3 unsuccessful seasons is rare. "Unsuccessful" is, to some extent, within the eye of the beholder, but when a GM/coach make the pitch that the roster that predated them is just no good, yet manage to go 9-7 their first year, by the time they've had 3 years to rebuild the roster to their satisfaction they'd better be showing improvement. 2014: 9-7 2015: 8-8 2016: 7-9 2017: 9-7 Fundamentally, McDermott and Beane took over an 8-8 "ish" team +/- 1 game If their " develop the culture, rebuild the roster" strategy is correct, they better, well, Do Better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: 7 wins is progress? 8 wins is progress? Geez, this fan base never changes. We were saying the same things when Dick Jauron was here. There will never be any real expectations in Buffalo. Pushing out expectations is a hallmark of this board. It's a defensive mechanism for those fans who aren't sure their team is good, but still want to wave the pom-poms. Right now they have half a team built after 2 off-seasons spent rebuilding. They've largely rid themselves of the previous regimes' players and it's to the point that expectations are ramping up...which means now we have this discussion of "2020." Every fan should expect that this team is in the playoffs in 2019, perhaps as a division winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: You're saying what you think should be done. That's fine. I'm saying what I think will happen. And I'm saying it because I think I have developed a good understanding of the process, and it seems you haven't. McBeane are all about continuous improvement. That's the process. They have a detailed development plan for every aspect of the team, on the field and off. Players get graded on all aspects of their career in Buffalo, on the field and off. They get graded on every practice, every play. If they're making good progress, they stay until they stop making progress or someone passes them. Coaches, the same thing. If McDermott keeps making progress on the goals that have been set for him, he stays. If he stops making progress, he's in trouble. The goals do NOT include making the playoffs or winning the Super Bowl. The goals are lots of small, well defined goals that represent incremental improvement. The THEORY, instead of the goal, is that if you continue to make improvement at all the goals and behaviors set out for you, the wins will follow. So, it's very possible that the team will make progress in 2019, as measured by 2019 performance compared to 2019 goals, and still go 7-9. It's similar to the mentality baseball hitters have - the objective is to see the ball and make a good swing. If you do that well, the hits will take care of themselves. I here hitters say often that they're satisfied because they got good swings. 2019 is, in a way, McBeane's first year. It's the first year they will have a roster made up completely of players they picked because they look like good fits for the process. It's the first year they'll have an entire team dedicated to and engaged in the process. It wouldn't make sense to fire them after their first season unless, as Joe said, the wheels fall off. What a load of baloney this is. All of it. This whole thread is the sad epitome of the failed Buffalo sports fans mentality. Trying to find any excuse they can to lower bar. To shame the rest of the fans for their lack of understanding and impatience. Frankly, I don't care how many times McDermott points out that he has seen it all and done everything. That he keeps a little notebook with him at all times, critiquing a players devotion to his lame process. The "process" is a fake, made-up word that he uses and the bobble-head fans lap it up. Doug Marrone had that arrogant, been there, done it all attitude as well. He hasn't won anything. Not in Philadelphia, not in Carolina, and not in Buffalo. Sorry Coach, you run a 1908 Harvard offense, and have been dead wrong on Nate Peterman, not once, but twice. You have a 15-17 overall record in Buffalo. What GM is going to say that continuous improvement is not the goal? His head is stuck in Carolina. 2019 is McDermott and Beane's third year in Buffalo. Not first. Third. I don't know how you come to that statement you made. They have their culture, they have their QB, they have their cap space, they have their Draft picks, they have the owner's backing. I'm sure Chris Brown will tell us about the importance of OTA's, John Murphy will have his fire-side chat with Kim Pegula with warm cookies baking in the oven behind them, Allen will talk some non-sense about not looking over his shoulder, that all players make the jump from Year one to Year two, we'll have Mark Kelso talk about the importance of continuity, and we'll have Jim Kelly tell us that we've found our franchise Coach and QB for the 7th time since 2000, but that's garbage. We've heard all of this before. When are we going to get results Shaw? The bar should be 10-wins and a legitimate, solid Playoff birth. The Jets have a new Coach, the Dolphins have a new Coach, Brady will be 42 next season. But not in Buffalo. You're the kid who doesn't get toys at Christmas. Instead we'll get a Coach talking about the importance of getting 31 year old LeSean McCoy "going" and a GM patting himself on the back for Tremaine Edmunds greatness, all the while Kyle Williams leads the charge. The real truth is Shaw, Kyle Williams would have been better as a Raven, or a Steeler, or a Patriot. He could have played in games that matter. But the Bills don't want better. They want to live in the past, live in their mental safe box of low expectations, always the cashier muttering to themselves about how unfair it all is. Edited February 17, 2019 by Straight Hucklebuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The goal should be dominating the division... I've seen teams do it in a single season! NO WAY am I giving McBeane 'til '20... If this is a three-win team come December, they should all be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 ...call it an unreasonable expectation (Greenspan said "irrational exuberance") , but with 10 picks and FA$$$, "6 & 10 AGAIN" won't fly around these parts.....2018 laid the ground work.......HR is the 2019 expectation but some may settle for a "three bagger".....wild card I'd say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I think a lot of fans have been watching the Sabres too much. They aren't the blueprint for perennial winning. The Sabres disgust me. As soon as the the expectations are raised with a 10-game win streak, they tucked their head into the shell and went down with a whimper. 86% chance to make the Playoffs at one point, down to less than 40% now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: The Sabres disgust me. As soon as the the expectations are raised with a 10-game win streak, they tucked their head into the shell and went down with a whimper. 86% chance to make the Playoffs at one point, down to less than 40% now. That winning streak was a lucky fluke. The team you see now is who they are. Not very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said: That winning streak was a lucky fluke. The team you see now is who they are. Not very good Then, we should treat them like the Bills. Call me when you're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: The Sabres disgust me. As soon as the the expectations are raised with a 10-game win streak, they tucked their head into the shell and went down with a whimper. 86% chance to make the Playoffs at one point, down to less than 40% now. I will personally lend my mojo and will them to victory today. ? Now back to the thread about not winning the SB this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, mannc said: Unfortunately, the NFL is most assuredly about wins. The NFL is a collection of 32 business owners, and it's only about wins in the way each owner decides it's about wins. Jerry Jones has stuck with Howdy Doody down there longer than I would have thought possible, and no one is about wins more than Jerry Jones. What I'm saying is McBeane have a process, and they've sold the Pegulas on the process. All four of them understand what 2019 success means in terms of the process, and I don't believe that the 2019 measure of success is some number of wins. It's measurable progress on dozens and dozens of objectives. They can make that progress and still not win 8 games, and if that happens, I think the Pegulas are in for another year. Simply put, under the process, won-loss record in 2019 is not a primary objective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Allen Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: A couple teams??? Brady........SB champ second season Roethlisberger........SB champ second season Russell Wilson........SB champ second season Andrew Luck.......AFC championship game second season Carson Wentz..........lead team to #1 seed......team won SB second season Goff........team was #3 seed in NFC in second season Patrick Mahomes.........#1 seed AFC second season Deshaun Watson.........playoffs second season Mitch Trubisky...........NFC north champs, playoffs in second season Man........this board is turning into a bunch of excuse makin', expectation hatin' MOM's..........I think SDS need to get Nugenix into the banner ad loop! So we have three rookie deal qb's who actually won rings in the past 20 years. Three quarterbacks who are going to be Hall of Famers, and who have continued to keep their team contenders in the second contract and beyond. That's not a rookie deal model, that's hitting the lottery. The other guys don't interest me. They lost. I want to see the Bills in the playoffs as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to act like it's the endgame. If Beane starts looking at the draft and FA's like it's playoffs or bust, they're screwed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: The NFL is a collection of 32 business owners, and it's only about wins in the way each owner decides it's about wins. Jerry Jones has stuck with Howdy Doody down there longer than I would have thought possible, and no one is about wins more than Jerry Jones. What I'm saying is McBeane have a process, and they've sold the Pegulas on the process. All four of them understand what 2019 success means in terms of the process, and I don't believe that the 2019 measure of success is some number of wins. It's measurable progress on dozens and dozens of objectives. They can make that progress and still not win 8 games, and if that happens, I think the Pegulas are in for another year. Simply put, under the process, won-loss record in 2019 is not a primary objective. Why even spend money to go to the games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: The bar should be 10-wins and a legitimate, solid Playoff birth. Like I said, I understand that's what you want and what you would do as owner. And like I said, what I'm talking about is what I think the McBeane and the Pegulas are doing. You don't have to like it. You can disagree with it. But it's pretty ignorant of you to criticize fans for having the wrong attitude about this. I'm not talking about what I'd do; I'm talking about I think the Pegulas will do. The Pegulas made a huge mistake when they hired Rex. They figured that out. They took a different approach with this hire. Whether you like it or not, McDermott and then Beane sold the Pegulas the process, and the Pegulas bought it. Whether you like it or not, all indications are that all four of them still believe the process is the way to go. Whether you like it or not, Terry Pegula understands that building success takes time. It took him decades to earn $5 billion. So whether you like it or not, the Pegulas are going to measure success in terms of the process, not in terms of wins and losses. If McBeane say the process is on track, and if the Pegulas agree, no one's losing their job with 7 wins. Of course, if the Pegulas don't agree, then McBeane will be gone. My point only is that some other owners may fire their head coach based on one season's record; I don't think that's what the Pegulas are thinking. 1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Why even spend money to go to the games? I spend it because I like going to the games. Pretty basic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: The NFL is a collection of 32 business owners, and it's only about wins in the way each owner decides it's about wins. Jerry Jones has stuck with Howdy Doody down there longer than I would have thought possible, and no one is about wins more than Jerry Jones. What I'm saying is McBeane have a process, and they've sold the Pegulas on the process. All four of them understand what 2019 success means in terms of the process, and I don't believe that the 2019 measure of success is some number of wins. It's measurable progress on dozens and dozens of objectives. They can make that progress and still not win 8 games, and if that happens, I think the Pegulas are in for another year. Simply put, under the process, won-loss record in 2019 is not a primary objective. Not trying to be flippant, but do you have an inside source or is this just your conclusion based on what we’ve all seen and read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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