Jump to content

Best/Worst QB - Kelly/Van Pelt?


Nuncha

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I don’t even care enough to argue about either of these guys. They are both disgraceful and I can’t believe they were both QBs that started games for us. Neither one of them belong in the NFL. I think EJ was worse but they both were abysmal. The expectations of being taken in round 1 and being the first qb taken in a draft class, probably adds weight in my mind. Things were expected of EJ whereas Peterman wasn’t ever supposed to be anything. That probably is something that skews my thought process. Disappointment.

I think that the expectations are clouding your judgement. EJ certainly was a massive disappointment but he wasn’t a worse player than Nate. It’s reasonable to say that you liked EJ less because he was projected to be a much better player. It’s impossible to argue that Peterman performed better (than literally anyone else). By statistical measures he is the worst QB of all-time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that the expectations are clouding your judgement. EJ certainly was a massive disappointment but he wasn’t a worse player than Nate. It’s reasonable to say that you liked EJ less because he was projected to be a much better player. It’s impossible to argue that Peterman performed better (than literally anyone else). By statistical measures he is the worst QB of all-time.

I get the stats thing. But it’s not just always about stats. Drew Brees is going to have every single passing record of all time. By the stats, he’s the best qb ever. Is anybody saying he’s the best ever? It can’t work the one way and not the other.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even with the "emergence" of Peterman as a contender, as an old timer, I still have to give the nod to Gary Marangi, who set records for bad QB play that will never be broken.  Here's the comparison, you decide.  I remember in his rookie year when there were a bunch of fans thinking Peterman was our future at QB, I warned them, since I was around during the Marangi years & I remembered when fans would chant "We want Marangi" & I started calling him Nathan Marangi.  Some of them got pretty mad at the nickname until he started that Chargers game. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MaraGa00.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeteNa00.htm


 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Ej is the worst. Even with all the Peterman garbage, at least he can throw a football. Most of the time it goes to the other team but at least he physically understands how to throw it.  Ej Manuel was taken in the first round. He also was the first qb taken in an entire draft class. He has the worst and most inconsistent mechanics and footwork of any qb I have ever seen at the pro level. I could not believe he was a player in the league. That guy was a complete joke. The guys best game ever was probably his first. He never got even a little bit better and probably got significantly worse actually. That shows me he was just lazy. Even with all of the embarrassment surrounding Peterman...He still would give you something reminiscent of pro passer. Ej was like having a sprinkler system back there.

EJ had good games.  Petermans problem is he doesnt understand his limitations as a passer.

It is sad to say but our beloved franchise has a lot of QBs on the same level of bad.  I cant make a decision.

Edited by formerlyofCtown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

EJ had good games.  Petermans problem is he doesnt understand his limitations as a passer.

It is sad to say but our beloved franchise has a lot of QBs on the same level of bad.  I cant make a decision.

 

EJ appeared to be ruined by coaching staff; lots of coaching staffs do that to young QBs making them tentative after a mistake.

  • Like (+1) 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I get the stats thing. But it’s not just always about stats. Drew Brees is going to have every single passing record of all time. By the stats, he’s the best qb ever. Is anybody saying he’s the best ever? It can’t work the one way and not the other.

In terms of Brees I think that there is a case to be made. He has made the playoffs every time that his defense was 25th or better (something like that). He is right near the top of the list.

 

In terms of Peterman/EJ you can’t just overlook the facts. Peterman completed 52.3% of his passes to his guys and 9.2% to the defense. He averages 4.2 YPA. Basically if he dropped back to throw 100 times his numbers would look like this: 52-100, 420 yards, 2.3 TDs and 9.2 INTs. That is ACTUALLY the worst of anyone ever. EJ was bad. However, in the same 100 throws he would look like this: 58-100, 640 yards, 3 1/2 TDs, 2.7 INTs. Neither guy is any good but one made more plays and (significantly) less mistakes. 

Edited by Kirby Jackson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Ej is the worst. Even with all the Peterman garbage, at least he can throw a football. Most of the time it goes to the other team but at least he physically understands how to throw it.  Ej Manuel was taken in the first round. He also was the first qb taken in an entire draft class. He has the worst and most inconsistent mechanics and footwork of any qb I have ever seen at the pro level. I could not believe he was a player in the league. That guy was a complete joke. The guys best game ever was probably his first. He never got even a little bit better and probably got significantly worse actually. That shows me he was just lazy. Even with all of the embarrassment surrounding Peterman...He still would give you something reminiscent of pro passer. Ej was like having a sprinkler system back there.

Career QB ratings

 

Derek Anderson 70.4

Matt Barkley 68.3

josh Allen 67.9

Nate Peterman 32.5

 

worst qb ever EJ Manuel 77.1

 

what an incredibly stupid post.  If anyone argues anyone but Peterman, they are Sean McDermott. 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that the expectations are clouding your judgement. EJ certainly was a massive disappointment but he wasn’t a worse player than Nate. It’s reasonable to say that you liked EJ less because he was projected to be a much better player. It’s impossible to argue that Peterman performed better (than literally anyone else). By statistical measures he is the worst QB of all-time.

I know you weren’t an EJ fan but there is something very fishy about him not being in the league while a lot worst qbs get 4th it 5th chances.  In the last game of the preseason, EJ had like a perfect rating and got cut.  Yet, Peterman gets signed again. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Van Pelt was a poor man's Fitz.   Not a viable starting option even short term, but nowhere near the worst that Buffalo has had. 

 

Nathan Peterman, Bruce Mathison, Jeff Tuel and Billy Joe Hobert immediately come to mind as clearly worse options.    That does not even count the ones from the early years. 

Edited by dgrochester55
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GRHater69 said:

Horrible piece of click bait. Van Pelt did not take over Kelly in '94. Frank Reich was still on the team and took over. Idiot can't even get his facts straight. There have been some truly bad starting QBs for the Bills besides Peterman. Marangi was probably the worst of the 70s with Bruce Mathison being the worst of the 80s. I'd Give Todd Collins the award for the 90s. As for the last 2 decades? Take your pick!

 

 

Iirc, Todd Collins took over for Kelly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Career QB ratings

 

Derek Anderson 70.4

Matt Barkley 68.3

josh Allen 67.9

Nate Peterman 32.5

 

worst qb ever EJ Manuel 77.1

 

what an incredibly stupid post.  If anyone argues anyone but Peterman, they are Sean McDermott. 

I know you weren’t an EJ fan but there is something very fishy about him not being in the league while a lot worst qbs get 4th it 5th chances.  In the last game of the preseason, EJ had like a perfect rating and got cut.  Yet, Peterman gets signed again. ?

After all these years EJ still moves the needle. The guy was absolutely terrible and shouldn’t have been drafted in the first 4 rounds. Then some how got handed chance after chance and job after job (without earning any) along with a careers worth of free passes from a lot of Bills fans. The 2 guys we are talking about are the 2 QBs I would want less then any other option. Neither one of them are even worth discussing. The fact that I think ej was worse, shouldn’t even matter. If it was up to me, there wouldn’t be a scenario that I would let either one of them on my team. EJ is probably the biggest Bills Lightning Rod of the last 15 years. Some how people still can’t wait to jump to his defense.

 

Anyone who doesn’t understand how ej could be considered the worst qb isn’t taking as many things into consideration as I was. EJ was supposed to be good and actually had excellent WRs. EJ also had a very solid offensive line and he was allowed to ruin pieces of 3 seasons. Peterman had absolutely nobody to throw to, no time to throw, played against tough defenses almost exclusively and only got 5 games. The game he played outside of those conditions there was 6 inches of snow on the ground. Also he was just a throw away late round pick that probably never should have even been put into a position to start. Nobody should have ever expected anything from him. Somehow our coach didn’t get that memo.

 

There is no excusing either of these players. Neither one even belong in the nfl. There just were a lot of factors I took into consideration. It really just simply doesn’t matter enough. 

  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Uh AVP was the man!

AVP was my hero. If I could have been any Quarterback growing up it would have been the 3rd string quarterback behind a contraversy over the 1 and 2. The American dream.

 

He had a loong career at backup. Was probably pounding brews before gameday at the end of his career. Legendary

Edited by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Stevie Ray said:

I actually dont think RJ was worse than AVP. RJs problems were taking way too many sacks and constantly getting hurt. But he had some games where he put up good numbers and certainly was more productive than AVP. I wouldnt lump him in the same category as Brohm, Peterman and Tuel.

 

"The Pill" (Pillsbury Doughboy) knew how to read defenses and where to go with the ball, but oh man there was nothing on those passes - took forever to get there. When he tried to put more on those passes, they were so bad I remember they would slow-mo replay them. If they fell incomplete or got picked off or nearly picked off they would do a replay that would show the ball flopping around in the air.

 

Pretty cringe-worthy stuff, but as the adage goes, those who can't "do" - teach. Coaching the position is where AVP has found his success.

 

R J definitely was the better of the two. If he had a bit more pocket presence and less of a wind-up to his throws he may have been able to find more success. We definitely have fielded worse QBs than Rob or Doug - hence a bit of the controversy in the locker room when they were competing to get the starts.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Career QB ratings

 

Derek Anderson 70.4

Matt Barkley 68.3

josh Allen 67.9

Nate Peterman 32.5

 

worst qb ever EJ Manuel 77.1

 

what an incredibly stupid post.  If anyone argues anyone but Peterman, they are Sean McDermott. 

I know you weren’t an EJ fan but there is something very fishy about him not being in the league while a lot worst qbs get 4th it 5th chances.  In the last game of the preseason, EJ had like a perfect rating and got cut.  Yet, Peterman gets signed again. ?

I think that EJ stinks. He stinks though in the realm of other bad Bills QBs (Trent, Losman, Collins). Nate Peterman stinks more than any QB ever. He wasn’t a “bad Bills QB.” He was Hackenberg bad. You could pretty much put ANY player to ever take snaps in the NFL in and get better results. 

Edited by Kirby Jackson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that EJ stinks. He stinks though in the realm of other bad Bills QBs (Trent, Losman, Collins). Nate Peterman stinks more than any QB ever. He wasn’t a “bad Bills QB.” He was Hackenberg bad. You could pretty much put ANY player to ever take snaps in the NFL in and get better results. 

 

As an EJ apologist I get it - there were times he flashed the mechanics and types of throws I wanted to see from our QBs, but had to come back down to Earth.

 

For me, it was when I heard from a reliable source that the Bills players themselves were fed up that EJ just could not grasp an NFL playbook and coaches had to "dumb" everything down to half the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

As an EJ apologist I get it - there were times he flashed the mechanics and types of throws I wanted to see from our QBs, but had to come back down to Earth.

 

For me, it was when I heard from a reliable source that the Bills players themselves were fed up that EJ just could not grasp an NFL playbook and coaches had to "dumb" everything down to half the field.

I think the team was also fed up with Manuel for getting his receivers killed. It appeared to me as though receivers became reluctant to go 100 percent after some passes because they didn't trust Manuel to have read the field and protect his fellas.

 

One thing I like about Allen is that he doesn't get his receivers lit up. Now I know with the rule changes, this is less of an issue, but it's still an issue. Receivers gotta trust the QB.

Edited by BillsSB2020
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, BillsSB2020 said:

I think the team was also fed up with Manuel for getting his receivers killed. It appeared to me as though receivers became reluctant to go 100 percent after some passes because they didn't trust Manuel to have read the field and protect his fellas.

 

One thing I like about Allen is that he doesn't get his receivers lit up. Now I know with the rule changes, this is less of an issue, but it's still an issue. Receivers gotta trust the QB.

 

He did get KB lit up on one high throw earlier in the year, but in hindsight I am not all that broken up over it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Matty the Dustmop said:

One day as in life someone worse than Peterman and EJ will be thrown to the wolves and we will be able to start a whole new thread that will sound something like this ....this guy makes Peterman and EJ look like HOFers.....

 

Don't honestly think I will be around THAT long.

 

I remember reading an article where they were trying to find a professional football QB who had worse stats than Peterman, they were going back to the leather helmet days. His performance was the stuff of legends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...