dgrochester55 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) So a marginal quarterback who is just a notch above EJ Manuel finds early success due to his great defense leading them to a super bowl but two years later is on the way out. He finds a social cause to latch on to for whatever reason was in his heart in a timely manner, and ends up with a nike contract and a settlement? Good for him, but that does not make him a hero or martyr. Shrewd? Lucky? opportunistic? Maybe, but certainly not a victim. Edited February 17, 2019 by dgrochester55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Heitz said: This thread Twitter is a good read. This TBD thread is mostly not... Most of the tweet thread is correct, except for this: Quote And even at the end, everything wasn’t necessarily smooth sailing. At the heart of Kaepernick’s claim is the idea that owners wanted to ruin him because he shined a light on racial injustice. Who do you think will be on the right side of history on that one? That's Kaep's claim, but it's only part true. The owners' blackballed him because he was using the NFL's stage for a personal protest. Any company would fire a person for doing that, and a new employer would also be very wary of hiring that person if he said in the interview that he would continue the personal protest on the new job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, GG said: Most of the tweet thread is correct, except for this: That's Kaep's claim, but it's only part true. The owners' blackballed him because he was using the NFL's stage for a personal protest. Any company would fire a person for doing that, and a new employer would also be very wary of hiring that person if he said in the interview that he would continue the personal protest on the new job. No, they blackballed him because (a) Trump told them to, (b) a significant percentage of the owners (e.g., Jones, McNair, Kraft, etc) are reactionary, authoritarian MAGA-morons, and (c) they are cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, GG said: Most of the tweet thread is correct, except for this: The author forgets to mention that the 49ers Super Bowl birth was more about their defense than Kaepernick. He also fails to realize that there are other reasons for Kaepernick to settle (other than a "massive offer"), such as the distinct possibility that he might not have a strong case, and he might not win. Settlements are both sides hedging their bets, nothing more. Just now, mannc said: No, they blackballed him because (a) Trump told them to, (b) a significant percentage of the owners (e.g., Jones, McNair, Kraft, etc) are reactionary, authoritarian MAGA-morons, and (c) they are cowards. Or d.) his level of play doesn't justify his salary demands and/or fan backlash against the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring it Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 19 hours ago, purple haze said: 1. Police have an exponentially difficult job. That job is made infinitely harder by bigoted cops or cops who are simply bad at their job. Just like some people working at a plant or in an office setting are good at their job and others aren't. Being a police officer doesn't make one infallible from incompetence, and it surely doesn't make them, by virtue of being simply being a police officer, a good person. Bigots go to work like everyone else. What might help good cops, aside from weeding out the bigots or power trippers in their midst, is for county, state and federal governments to stop having police officers be a catch all for every circumstance. Sometimes a mental health expert or a social worker is what's really needed, and money needs to be put into paying that personnel and for the needed services. Mental health is a true national emergency. But, hey, tax cuts and walls and whatnot... 2. Veterans had nothing to do with why Kaepernick or Reid or any other player was kneeling; that was a conflation made by politicians and conservative talk show pundits to distract from the stated reasons for the protest. Why is that? Because those people are fine with the status quo. If not one NFL player ever knelt, but instead mentioned in interviews the issues as they viewed them, or wore, for instance, the same yellow wristbands that some NFL players wore in the '91 NFL playoffs as a symbol of solidarity with the military, people would still complain. There are those who are uncomfortable with protest, in general, and they will attack the means of protest as opposed to the issue being protested. They will attack the bus strike as opposed to people being relegated to riding in the back of one or having to give up, even those seats, due to their color - while still paying the same fare. They will attack the sit-in as opposed to the reality American citizens are not allowed to eat at the same establishment or shop in the same store. They will ask why "those people" have to move into this neighborhood and cause trouble, even though it's some people who live in neighborhood that deface property, kill pets and generally cause the trouble -- all in efforts to run "those people" out of it. As opposed to having a problem with Kaepernick or others, do you ever ask why they feel a need to protest? For some of you non black, brown, yellow or red people, in my wickedest thoughts, I wish you could spend time in the same skin and have to deal with or listen to all the soft hostility, slick "jokes," hypocritical double-talk that belies centuries of history or outright blatant vitriol that you would have to deal with and listen to. Then I think better of it and wouldn't wish it on you. Well said! Although I don’t agree with everything. I mentioned race in my post , maybe I shouldn’t have. Kap was protesting unjustified shootings by cops not necessarily only white cops. But it was pretty clear that the shootings he was addressing were toward black men. Other players joined in and although I can’t remember who, they referenced killing of black men by white cops. Kap certainly had every right to protest peacefully which he did so. Kudos to him for that and for his courage! IMO him timing it with the anthem was initially bold and certainly attention grabbing. But after publicly stating his reasons for kneeling and not his reasons for doing it he continued to kneel. I feel that was disrespectful( I didn’t need a conservative talking head for that) placing this issue over our country and that union of people itself. This country is not perfect to be sure. Never will be because it is made up of humans. The status quo should still not be accepted as long as some humans dehumanize others. I have had this conversation with non white family members. Thankfully the conversations have been respectful and somewhat enlightening ! Politics almost inevitably are brought into this. Which side has not at some point treated the other unfairly or ridiculed one another. Sadly that includes me too. Christ teaches grace in these situations. Something people are not familiar with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Koko78 said: Or d.) his level of play doesn't justify his salary demands and/or fan backlash against the team. What do you know about his salary demands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, mannc said: What do you know about his salary demands? What do you know about the reasons they "blackballed" him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Interesting. I read an article somewhere suggesting that as part of the settlement Kaep agreed never to play in the league. Based on his lawyer’s comments, that’s not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: .....Slippery Geragos=Jim the Hammer Shapiro....Skank 101......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 6:25 AM, Foxx said: https://clutchpoints.com/chiefs-news-larry-johnson-thinks-colin-kaepernick-sold-out-with-nfl-settlement/ Former Chiefs star Larry Johnson thinks Colin Kaepernick sold out with NFL settlement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I know we will never know but it would be very telling how much he got. If he got 70 million he actually had something, if he got 5 million he is just a nuisance they want to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Assata’s Daughters is a Chicago group that focuses on black female empowerment in the tradition of Asaata Shakur. Well....what is the "empowerment tradition" of a person who is infamous only for aiding and abetting the murder of a police officer (and then escaping from prison). Could his money have better spent? Maybe. He was making a statement with that donation in particular. Ha! Well. Actually. That's what she's most "infamous" for, but actually she may well not have had anything to do with the murder of the LEO. She was in the car, and he was shot with his own gun, near the rear of the car. On the other hand, the full story is actually worse. Her actual "empowerment tradition" is as a member of a political group, "Black Liberation Army" " a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the US government through tactics such as robbing banks and killing police officers and drug dealers". Her personal record per Wiki: "Between 1973 and 1977, in New York and New Jersey, Shakur was indicted ten times, resulting in seven different criminal trials. Shakur was charged with two bank robberies, the kidnapping of a Brooklyn heroin dealer, the attempted murder of two Queens police officers stemming from a January 23, 1973, failed ambush, and eight other felonies related to the Turnpike shootout." Nice lassie, that - Not. On the other hand, I'm not gonna judge the group "Assata's Daughters" solely by their name. They appear to have been founded in response to lack of investigation/action regarding two publicized killings of black men by police officers in Chicago, and to direct much of their action to protesting these, which is entirely consistent with Kaepernick's stated message. I tend to find Kaepernick a bit naive, and it wouldn't surprise me if he really didn't look too deeply into exactly who Assata Shakur actually was and what she actually did, much less be intending a special statement with that donation. I think @SDSpoint above is well-taken that it's a gross mis-characterization to call Assata's Daughters "a group that kills police officers". Assata herself, still a stretch but she was clearly an active participant in a group that was explicitly anti-US government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 1:51 PM, KD in CA said: If the NFL had to write him a big check, you can be sure he'll never play again. But I wouldn't be surprised if the deal was 'no money, but we'll get you on a roster before training camp.' Remind me how they would promise that and why he would accept it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Ha! Well. Actually. That's what she's most "infamous" for, but actually she may well not have had anything to do with the murder of the LEO. She was in the car, and he was shot with his own gun, near the rear of the car. On the other hand, the full story is actually worse. Her actual "empowerment tradition" is as a member of a political group, "Black Liberation Army" " a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the US government through tactics such as robbing banks and killing police officers and drug dealers". Her personal record per Wiki: "Between 1973 and 1977, in New York and New Jersey, Shakur was indicted ten times, resulting in seven different criminal trials. Shakur was charged with two bank robberies, the kidnapping of a Brooklyn heroin dealer, the attempted murder of two Queens police officers stemming from a January 23, 1973, failed ambush, and eight other felonies related to the Turnpike shootout." Nice lassie, that - Not. On the other hand, I'm not gonna judge the group "Assata's Daughters" solely by their name. They appear to have been founded in response to lack of investigation/action regarding two publicized killings of black men by police officers in Chicago, and to direct much of their action to protesting these, which is entirely consistent with Kaepernick's stated message. I tend to find Kaepernick a bit naive, and it wouldn't surprise me if he really didn't look too deeply into exactly who Assata Shakur actually was and what she actually did, much less be intending a special statement with that donation. I think @SDSpoint above is well-taken that it's a gross mis-characterization to call Assata's Daughters "a group that kills police officers". Assata herself, still a stretch but she was clearly an active participant in a group that was explicitly anti-US government. My problem with Kaepernick is that he seemed to come to his social calling only after he lost his starting job. I bet most people initially seeing him sitting during the anthem in that preseason game figured he was just moping over his fate at that time. By that time, Trayvon Marin, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Laquan McDonald, Tamir Rice had all died at the hands of the police not days, not weeks, not months...but YEARS before Kaep decided he was going to make his statement. He chose not to say anything while he was still the undisputed (but now struggling) starter for the 49ers in 2014 and '15. There's no reason to believe that, had CHip Kelly kept him as starter and he was still playing in that role, that he would have sat during the anthem then or now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I know we will never know but it would be very telling how much he got. If he got 70 million he actually had something, if he got 5 million he is just a nuisance they want to go away. we will likely find out.....at the latest in 2020 when green bay releases financials from 2019 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 21 hours ago, Koko78 said: What do you know about the reasons they "blackballed" him? It's clear they didn't blackball him for his play on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: It's clear they didn't blackball him for his play on the field. On 2/17/2019 at 10:50 AM, Koko78 said: Or d.) his level of play doesn't justify his salary demands and/or fan backlash against the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, Koko78 said: But we also know his level of play isn't what got him out of the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 4:15 PM, CuddyDark said: It's not the firing. It's not discrimination of his beliefs or race or any of those things. It's preventing him from working that is illegal. It's part of the antitrust laws. In short, the NFL is given a special charter by the government which allows it to have a monopoly. In Kaepernick's case they used this monopoly to prevent him from working. It's illegal. Anyway that how my small brain see it. I could be completely wrong. I wish it was public because it’s fascinating. Did they have hard evidence of collusion where teams and the nfl were deliberately discussing and agreeing to exclude him or were they able to construct evidence out of multiple teams independently saying ‘pass’ based on NFL communications on policy around the practice of protesting. 47 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: But we also know his level of play isn't what got him out of the league. Maybe, but I do belive if his level of play was elite enough there would’ve been some compromise found to get him under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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