Bucky Brooks’ Top 5 Draft Prospects by position

[Bill from NYC]

5 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

The two hardest positions to fill in free agency are WR and pass rushing.  I can fix the O line partially in free agency and O lineman outside of round 1 make it in the NFL consistently.  Stopping the run up the middle is important but it's 6th on my priority list.

I think that you omitted left tackle.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

after Metcalf has a freakish combine- I think Beane drafts DK.  That is if he wasn't drafted already

If that happens I will get behind it.....and hope that we get the house insurance (Josh Allen being the house) in some other form.

 

Our season will go how Josh Allen goes

[White Linen]

6 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that you omitted left tackle.

 

From?

[Bill from NYC]

8 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

From?

>>>>>The two hardest positions to fill in free agency are WR and pass rushing.<<<<<

[GunnerBill]

Left tackle absolutely is up there as hard to fill in FA.

 

My take on Bucky's top 5s...

 

QBs - Pending Combine measurements I have Murray above Haskins, but that is subject to change. I have Grier ahead of Finley as my 5th guy too (but this is a two man class).

RBs - n/a - not got into detailed work yet

WRs - Same top 3 but have gone back and forth a bit on order. Basically I have 8 WRs in a bit of a jumble.

TEs - n/a - not got into detailed work yet

OTs - I have Williams as my top ranked OL but I really have him and Cody Ford as guards with tackle flex. Dave Edwards of Wisconsin my top ranked tackle and then Jawaan Taylor but I see both as RT only guys which does limit the grade a touch. I have Dillard 3rd - very polished pass protector but he gets blown up too often in the run game. Those three are all very close in my mind.

IOL - Williams is #1 and Ford is #2. Bradbury is #3 and McGovern and Lindstrom round out my top 5 (Elgton Jenkins who is Bucky's #2 is still on my to do list)

 

DT - Same 5 and same order except Ed Oliver tops my 5.

EDGE - Same 5, same order

LB - Same top 3 in same order. I have the Norte Dame kid 4th.

CB - Williams, Murphy, Mullen are my top 3, I have JoeJuan Williams out of Vandy 4th and then Baker 5th.

S - My top 3 is Thompson at #1, Abram at #2 and then Adderley at #3. Not really got a 4 or a 5 yet. Still some work to do here.

 

I think my conclusion was that basically there is much more consensus about the defensive guys - and that is to be expected because this is an excellent defensive draft class. On offense the divergence of views across draft analysts seems to be much wider. I've seen about 7 different names put forward as the #1 WR and the #1 OL. There is good depth at both positions but a lack of standout elite prospects that people have converged on.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...Taylor's name at #9 seems to be popping up more frequently as of late...............

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

So, because the Rams offense which was #2 overall in the NFL in 2018 fell on their face in the super bowl you are touting that Patriots defense that was 20th in yards allowed is a strong reason defense still wins?

 

It was the Rams game to win and their offense went into the toilet as they forgot to run the ball which was their strong suit all season. Then being down by only three points the OC went pass happy. (sound familiar?) The Rams QB Goff with 4600 yards passing and 32 TDs choked about as badly as any QB I've ever seen in a Superbowl. I don't give the Patriots defense props for Goff's poor play. 

 

 

At least we agree that the Bills are desperate for offense and I'm hoping that most of those 10 draft picks go for offense. 

 

They were only in the game because of their defense. Their expensively assembled offensive line opened no gaps, their genius offensive playcaller called an atrocious game and their Quarterback at times looked like a deer in the headlights. If your logic is that Aaron Donald being bottled up was the reason they didn't win the Superbowl and therefore the Bills shouldn't draft defense I'd counter with "their offensive line stinking up the joint was equally as big a reason and therefore the Bills shouldn't draft offense."

 

Of course neither of those are true. If there is a quality pass rush prospect at #9 whether it is an edge guy or an interior penetrator like Ed Oliver then the Bills should not pass on them to reach for a right tackle.

 

The Bills offense needs a lot more work than the Bills defense. Everyone agrees on that. But you shouldn't draft a guy just based on who is likely to have the biggest impact in 2019. You draft the guy who you think can be a potentially elite guy long term at a key position. If they stay at #9 I can't see that guy being an offensive player myself. If they are determined to take an offensive player with their first pick they should maximise value and trade back. The question is who might come up and what for. I still say for all the focus on Washington at #15 that Carolina at #16 for a pass rusher (if say Ferrell gets to that spot) is the most likely trade up. They have a major need there and there is a relationship.

[White Linen]

8 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

>>>>>The two hardest positions to fill in free agency are WR and pass rushing.<<<<<

 

Got it.  I don't think OL is one of the hardest then.  Agree to disagree I suppose. 

[noacls]

On 2/14/2019 at 10:21 AM, WideNine said:

 

We were 1st in pass defense and 10th in rush defense. 

 

Opponents (particularly in the red zone) were able to run on our team. Rushing TDs were just about automatic once they were in the red zone. The Patriots owned us by running over our team then forcing the Bills to committ all the defenders they could to the box...then they were able to hit their short passes behind our defense.

 

I know folks glamorize the DE position and sacks, but between our #1 pass defense and #7 turnover ranking, our biggest need area on defense is the ability to stop the run and prevent teams from owning us and scoring in the red zone, or forcing the Bills to commit our secondary to rush defence and opening up their pass options.

 

Also if you can stop the run with your 4 man front, your defense can be more creative with blitzes on predictable passing downs.

 

I agree with the O-line needs.

 

I agree with what you say. However LB's had a lot to do with bad run D at the end of year. Edmund's has to take some big steps in his 2nd year.

[Nihilarian]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They were only in the game because of their defense. Their expensively assembled offensive line opened no gaps, their genius offensive playcaller called an atrocious game and their Quarterback at times looked like a deer in the headlights. If your logic is that Aaron Donald being bottled up was the reason they didn't win the Superbowl and therefore the Bills shouldn't draft defense I'd counter with "their offensive line stinking up the joint was equally as big a reason and therefore the Bills shouldn't draft offense."

 

Of course neither of those are true. If there is a quality pass rush prospect at #9 whether it is an edge guy or an interior penetrator like Ed Oliver then the Bills should not pass on them to reach for a right tackle.

 

The Bills offense needs a lot more work than the Bills defense. Everyone agrees on that. But you shouldn't draft a guy just based on who is likely to have the biggest impact in 2019. You draft the guy who you think can be a potentially elite guy long term at a key position. If they stay at #9 I can't see that guy being an offensive player myself. If they are determined to take an offensive player with their first pick they should maximise value and trade back. The question is who might come up and what for. I still say for all the focus on Washington at #15 that Carolina at #16 for a pass rusher (if say Ferrell gets to that spot) is the most likely trade up. They have a major need there and there is a relationship.

The point I was attempting to make about Rams DT Arron Donald, that the second highest paid defensive player in the NFL who had 20.5 sacks in the regular season. Had only one solo tackle with 4 assists and one QB hit that entire SB. This player is a 4x first team all pro, pro bowler. The Rams defense only had three hits on Goff all game.

 

A big a deal as this player is... he basically was invisible in that super bowl. He didn't change the outcome of the game. He wasn't the same force in the biggest game of his career as he was in the regular season. The reason is simply that the Patriots have a very good interior offensive line that double, triple teamed Donald. 

 

That last sentence is what leads me to hope that this new Bills regime doesn't follow the error of past regimes in thinking that they need to spend that first round pick on an interior defensive line player and instead look to build the very best offensive line they can. 

 

Find an offensive center as good or better than Eric Woods. Find a left guard as good or better than Richie Incognito. Upgrade that right tackle position and perhaps that left tackle position. Build a quality offensive line that will properly protect their new franchise QB. There are currently projected six offensive line players that could go in the first round this year. No reason not to build the very best line they can. 

 

 

On another note, as for the Patriots defense looking so good. They might have an inside as to what the Rams were doing on offense from their backup QB Brian Hoyer.                                https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/breer-brian-hoyer-recognized-rams-offensive-scheme-his-days-browns

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

A big a deal as this player is... he basically was invisible in that super bowl. He didn't change the outcome of the game. He wasn't the same force in the biggest game of his career as he was in the regular season. 

 

My point to you is that the vaunted Rams offensive line wasn't the same force in the Superbowl either and that is absolutely does not prove that given the chance to draft an Aaron Donald you should pass him over for any offensive lineman who happens to wander on by. 

 

Your draft take is offensive line no matter what. And that is foolish. Nobody doubts the Bills need up front. They have to make that line better and turn over every stone to do so. But forcing yourself to pick an offensive lineman at #9 regardless of your board would be a huge error. If, for example, you believe Ed Oliver to be the second coming of Aaron Donald and a center to be the next Eric Wood then you'd be crazy to take Eric Wood over Aaron Donald. Yes the Bills need at C is greater than their need at DT but you don't pass on perennial all pros for a guy who is less than that unless that guy is a Quarterback. 

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My point to you is that the vaunted Rams offensive line wasn't the same force in the Superbowl either and that is absolutely does not prove that given the chance to draft an Aaron Donald you should pass him over for any offensive lineman who happens to wander on by. 

 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Your draft take is offensive line no matter what. And that is foolish.

Nobody doubts the Bills need up front. They have to make that line better and turn over every stone to do so. But forcing yourself to pick an offensive lineman at #9 regardless of your board would be a huge error. If, for example, you believe Ed Oliver to be the second coming of Aaron Donald and a center to be the next Eric Wood then you'd be crazy to take Eric Wood over Aaron Donald. Yes the Bills need at C is greater than their need at DT but you don't pass on perennial all pros for a guy who is less than that unless that guy is a Quarterback. 

3

C'mon man, which one of those Rams linemen was making 135 million with 87 million guaranteed? Not one of them made the pro bowl or was an all-pro like Donald is...

 

The sole reason that Rams offense was as good as it was in 2018 in being the #2 offense was because of Goff and Gurley who both made the pro bowl and Gurley a first team all pro. Now Gurly was clearly injured late in the season and wasn't the same player in the playoffs.

 

If you clicked the link I posted you would have read that Patriots backup QB Brian Hoyer recognized the offensive plays/playcalling Rams OC/HC Sean McVay was running because  he was running Shanahan's offense that he ran in Cleveland, same nomenclature.

 

"Rams head coach Sean McVay was a tight ends coach for Kyle Shanahan with the Redskins from 2010-2013. When Shanahan was the offensive coordinator for the Browns in 2014, Hoyer started 11 games for him. After watching Manning's episode, he realized McVay's offense was the same as Shanahan's offense he ran in Cleveland. 

Looking at the Rams tape confirmed it. Then, he saw an NFL Network interview where Goff and McVay discussed the coach being in the quarterback’s ear up until the 15-second play-clock cutoff, which was something Shanahan did with Hoyer. Then, Hoyer went back to Amazon’s All or Nothing series on the Rams; it was about the 2016 season but had footage of OTAs from McVay’s first spring there. Hoyer recognized the language.

Hoyer continued to give the Patriots' defenders tips in practice. If the safeties showed they were playing up, Hoyer told Devin McCourty the quarterback is just going to catch the snap and throw it deep. The biggest piece of knowledge he gave the Patriots defense centered around blitzes."

 

From Hoyer:

Having played in that offense, they don’t have an answer for all-out pressure. Their answer is for the quarterback to make a play.”

The biggest play in the Super Bowl was when Flores called a blitz in the fourth quarter with a 10-3 lead. The Rams were driving towards tying the game, but in the face of all-out pressure, Goff threw a bad pass and Stephon Gilmore easily intercepted. 

 

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Your draft take is offensive line no matter what. And that is foolish.

I never said that. In my first post in this thread, I said. 

 

"If this franchise goes defense with that #1 pick at #9 the ONLY position I can see that need for is a pass rusher." Meaning an edge rusher. 

 

Nobody (me) ever said that the team must draft an offensive line player with that #9 pick.

 

However, last year the Buffalo Bills went need for their first two picks in QB Josh Allen and LBer Tremaine Edmunds. How did that work out?  

 

I'm in the Indy Colts camp in that they went OG with the 6th overall pick last year in Quinton Nelson and the kid went on to be first team all pro and made the pro bowl. That offensive guard also helped the Colts go from being PFF 25th best O line in 2017 to the 3rd best O line unit in the league. The Colts have three first round players on their line in LT, LG, OC and a second rounder at RT. That improvement in the line was a big reason as to why QB Andrew Luck threw 39 TDs and was sacked only 18 times all season. 

 

In my view, it's just as important or perhaps even more important to field superior talent across the offensive line vs the defensive line. The reason being is the top priority of the franchise should be to protect the most valuable player on the team in the franchise QB. The Bills have fielded superstars on the defensive line over the course of many, many regimes with little success and yet the last time this franchise was a viable playoff team they had a very solid offensive line.

 

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 12:31 PM, Nihilarian said:

 The Bills have fielded superstars on the defensive line over the course of many, many regimes with little success and yet the last time this franchise was a viable playoff team they had a very solid offensive line.

 

This is far beyond dispute. Thank you.

[SoCal Deek]

I’d rather have a Center and anchor the O Line for a decade than a DT who’ll make a lot of noise and then bolt after his rookie contract expires. It might not be as sexy of a pick but it’s better in the long run.

[BillsSB2020]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:31 AM, Nihilarian said:

I never said that. In my first post in this thread, I said. 

 

"If this franchise goes defense with that #1 pick at #9 the ONLY position I can see that need for is a pass rusher." Meaning an edge rusher. 

 

Nobody (me) ever said that the team must draft an offensive line player with that #9 pick.

 

However, last year the Buffalo Bills went need for their first two picks in QB Josh Allen and LBer Tremaine Edmunds. How did that work out?  

 

I'm in the Indy Colts camp in that they went OG with the 6th overall pick last year in Quinton Nelson and the kid went on to be first team all pro and made the pro bowl. That offensive guard also helped the Colts go from being PFF 25th best O line in 2017 to the 3rd best O line unit in the league. The Colts have three first round players on their line in LT, LG, OC and a second rounder at RT. That improvement in the line was a big reason as to why QB Andrew Luck threw 39 TDs and was sacked only 18 times all season. 

 

In my view, it's just as important or perhaps even more important to field superior talent across the offensive line vs the defensive line. The reason being is the top priority of the franchise should be to protect the most valuable player on the team in the franchise QB. The Bills have fielded superstars on the defensive line over the course of many, many regimes with little success and yet the last time this franchise was a viable playoff team they had a very solid offensive line.

 

Who were the superstars before Mario and Dareus came along? Kyle was a stalwart, but the Bills haven't had a top flight pass rusher since Bruce Smith(Outside of Mario's brief success). Schobel is the best one we had and he wasn't exactly elite.

 

[Nihilarian]

46 minutes ago, BillsSB2020 said:

Who were the superstars before Mario and Dareus came along? Kyle was a stalwart, but the Bills haven't had a top flight pass rusher since Bruce Smith(Outside of Mario's brief success). Schobel is the best one we had and he wasn't exactly elite.

 

2000 first three picks were DE, DB, LB

2001 first three picks were DB, DE, RB

2002 first three picks were OT, WR, DE

2003 first three picks were RB, DE, LB

2004 first three picks were WR, QB, DT...6 on offense out of 15

2005 first three picks were WR, TE, C  although these were 2nd, 3rd and 4th round

2006 first three picks were DB, DT, DB

2007 first three picks were RB, LB, QB

2008 first three picks were DB, WR, DE

2009 first three picks were DE, C, DB ...13 on offense out of 30

2010 first three picks were RB, DT, DE 

2011 first three picks were DT, DB, LB

2012 first three picks were DB, G, WR 

2013 first three picks were QB, WR, LB

2014 first three picks were WR, OT , LB

2015 first three picks were CB, OG, RB although these were 2nd, 3rd and 5th round

2016 first three picks were DE, LB, DT

2017 first three picks were CB, WR, OG

2018 first three picks were QB, LB, DT... 24 on offense out of 56

 

Eighteen years of first round picks 10 were defensive, 8 offensive. As bad as the QB situation has been over those 18 years the Bills only selected a QB 3x in the first round. JP, EJ, JA.

 

First-round picks by position, five DB, three RB, three DE, two WR, three QB, one LB, two DT, one OT, one C.  To me, it's kind of sad that this shows the team went offensive line only twice in 19 years with a first round pick and that first one was a failed pick at OT. 

 

2000 had Ted Washington 1995-2000 FA 

2001 had Aaron Schobel 2001-2009 2nd round pick, Pat Williams 1997-2004 FA

2003 had Sam Adams 2003, 2005 FA

2006 Kyle Williams 2006-2018 5th round pick 

2008 had Marcus Stroud 2008-2010 FA

2011 Marcell Dareus 2011-2017 1st pick #3 overall

2012 Mario Williams 2012-2015 FA 100 million

2014 Jerry Hughes 2014-2018 Trade 

 

The Buffalo Bills have expended far more money and resources in obtaining top defensive players vs offensive players over the years.

 

 

 

 

[ndirish1978]

On 2/13/2019 at 9:48 PM, White Linen said:

I just can't see them drafting a DT or OL in the first round.  I see DE or WR.

 

The draft is stacked with blue chip DTs and we don't have a difference-maker at the position that can sack the QB. Confused as to how you don't see this as a need.  

[BillsSB2020]

13 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

2000 first three picks were DE, DB, LB

2001 first three picks were DB, DE, RB

2002 first three picks were OT, WR, DE

2003 first three picks were RB, DE, LB

2004 first three picks were WR, QB, DT...6 on offense out of 15

2005 first three picks were WR, TE, C  although these were 2nd, 3rd and 4th round

2006 first three picks were DB, DT, DB

2007 first three picks were RB, LB, QB

2008 first three picks were DB, WR, DE

2009 first three picks were DE, C, DB ...13 on offense out of 30

2010 first three picks were RB, DT, DE 

2011 first three picks were DT, DB, LB

2012 first three picks were DB, G, WR 

2013 first three picks were QB, WR, LB

2014 first three picks were WR, OT , LB

2015 first three picks were CB, OG, RB although these were 2nd, 3rd and 5th round

2016 first three picks were DE, LB, DT

2017 first three picks were CB, WR, OG

2018 first three picks were QB, LB, DT... 24 on offense out of 56

 

Eighteen years of first round picks 10 were defensive, 8 offensive. As bad as the QB situation has been over those 18 years the Bills only selected a QB 3x in the first round. JP, EJ, JA.

 

First-round picks by position, five DB, three RB, three DE, two WR, three QB, one LB, two DT, one OT, one C.  To me, it's kind of sad that this shows the team went offensive line only twice in 19 years with a first round pick and that first one was a failed pick at OT. 

 

2000 had Ted Washington 1995-2000 FA 

2001 had Aaron Schobel 2001-2009 2nd round pick, Pat Williams 1997-2004 FA

2003 had Sam Adams 2003, 2005 FA

2006 Kyle Williams 2006-2018 5th round pick 

2008 had Marcus Stroud 2008-2010 FA

2011 Marcell Dareus 2011-2017 1st pick #3 overall

2012 Mario Williams 2012-2015 FA 100 million

2014 Jerry Hughes 2014-2018 Trade 

 

The Buffalo Bills have expended far more money and resources in obtaining top defensive players vs offensive players over the years.

 

 

 

 

I see quite a few very good DT's on that list and a large number of good/not elite edge rushers.

 

I'm not disputing the overall premise that the Bills as a whole need to be more offensive minded. I'm singing out edge pass rusher, the most important defensive position, as an area where they have not been great. As far as allocation of resources, they drafted Erik Flowers and Aaron Maybin in the first round in the HOPE that they'd be elite pass rushers. They failed. That doesn't change the fact that the defense has rarely been GREAT over the years and I attribute that to a lack of a truly elite pass rusher. It's especially important when you're facing the top flight QB's. Best way to beat em is to be in their face all day.

 

Let's say they had drafted 6 first round QB's over that time frame, yet they all failed. That wouldn't change the importance of the position. It would just mean that they had horridly allocated the resources.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BillsSB2020

[Nihilarian]

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

The draft is stacked with blue chip DTs and we don't have a difference-maker at the position that can sack the QB. Confused as to how you don't see this as a need.  

So, if the draft is stacked with blue-chip DT's it would appear that other positions of need are more scarce. with the combine and pro days ahead we the fans still don't have a clear picture of the draft status of most players. 

 

The Bills weakest area was #1 offensive line, OC, LG, and with the RG, RT as free agents and not so good players this puts the Buffalo Bills in need of four line starters from free agency and the draft. First and foremost this team needs to protect the QB and build a decent run game. 

 

As it stands there are no offensive line players in the top ten save OT Jonah Williams who I hope they draft.