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RG John Miller - stay or go?

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Classic case of “all he needs is more time.”:thumbdown:

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If he couldn’t live up to average expectations on a rookie contract what kind of effort will we expect from him once he gets a pay raise?

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Probably time to be rid of him.  Had one promising year, then poo after that.

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Miller is a tweener-- not a very good starter, but a great backup. It all comes down to money.

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...was reading an article on the Top TEN FA OL......Miller was at #9...........

 

9. John Miller, Guard

After playing only four games and being benched for Vladimir Ducasse in 2017, Miller returned to a starting role with the Buffalo Bills last season. At just 25 years old, Miller offers teams a younger option than some of the names on this list, but also an option that hasn’t yet broken an overall grade of 70.0 in a season. This past season, he was only charged with one sack in 529 pass-blocking snaps, however.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-10-interior-offensive-linemen-set-to-enter-free-agency-in-2019

 

 

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy

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11 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

I don't think he sucks. Wrong scheme fit, probably. Think at this point he's better than Ducasse and Teller. But at what cost is the deal breaker...

i believe this is the problem. he is much better suited for a power scheme. he also played left guard all during his college career.  i think that's where he should be and think he would be a road grader for shady at that spot. he could be a reuben brown for us there. i think teller has the ability to play all spots and could be good on the right side.

 

i think the problem for miller was mills. miller had his assignment but had to deal with mills getting whipped around and having 2 guys in his gap all the time.

2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

If he couldn’t live up to average expectations on a rookie contract what kind of effort will we expect from him once he gets a pay raise?

he played very well during his rookie year in the power scheme....which juan screwed up. he also had some major adversities in his life that he had to deal with and people tend to not want to consider any of that.

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Horrible O-Line.

 

IF you have to ask the question, I feel we already have the answer.

 

Move forward with someone else.  PLZ.

 

 

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Let the new OL coach decide if he's salvageable/scheme fit and go from there. 

8 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i believe this is the problem. he is much better suited for a power scheme. he also played left guard all during his college career.  i think that's where he should be and think he would be a road grader for shady at that spot. he could be a reuben brown for us there. i think teller has the ability to play all spots and could be good on the right side.

 

i think the problem for miller was mills. miller had his assignment but had to deal with mills getting whipped around and having 2 guys in his gap all the time.

he played very well during his rookie year in the power scheme....which juan screwed up. he also had some major adversities in his life that he had to deal with and people tend to not want to consider any of that.

Any insight on the Rob Johnson scheme?

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12 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

Any insight on the Rob Johnson scheme?

 

As far as I'm concerned the Rob Johnson scheme is to take sacks, throw interceptions and look like a douche. 

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Miller was clearly a liability last year. 

 

Rarely have I seen an offensive linemen look so lost regarding who he should be blocking. Defenders were able to get into his body and drive him back quite often as well.

 

His footwork was terrible, cemented to the ground and often lunging off balance - some of that was late realization of who he should pickup, some of that was just bad technique. There were obviously some questions around how the coaching was being done, maybe more tough love was needed - I dunno but Castillo was let go so there was the thought that he was not coaching these guys up very well.

 

All that being said, an offensive line has to operate as a unit, if you do not trust or know how the guy next to you is going to block and you start trying to compensate it all goes to pieces in a hurry and everyone looks bad. Think of a guard trying to pull on a play where the center can't get anchored and is driven back 3-4 feet; the whole play becomes a train wreck.

 

My vote would be to drop most of the under performers back to the PS, and give fresh blood (free agents and rookies we pick up in the draft) a shot at filling the holes. That gives Bobby Johnson a chance to correct technique and see who can be salvaged and who cannot. Johnson worked under some pretty successful o-line coaches, in Indy last year, and under D'Alessandris on Buffalo's Chan Gailey staff. Most remember how boring Chan was, but the Bills ran the ball extremely well under Gailey. I expect a quantum leap in the performance of this unit next year.

 

 

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1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

As far as I'm concerned the Rob Johnson scheme is to take sacks, throw interceptions and look like a douche. 

That's not fair. RJ didn't throw many picks!

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These coaching changes killed him.  I thought he was going to be a real solid piece after his rookie year.  Personally, I’d rather keep a youngish olinemen with some potential than create another hole.

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12 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

I don't think he sucks. Wrong scheme fit, probably. Think at this point he's better than Ducasse and Teller. But at what cost is the deal breaker...

Scheme fit?

 

You can run block, pass block or you can't and this kid outright stinks at this point. He might look a bit better with upgrades at RT, OC but he would still be the weakest link. 

 

The entire 2018 Buffalo Bills starting line needs to be revamped with maybe keeping the one decent player in Dawkins as an OG, RT.

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4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That's not fair. RJ didn't throw many picks!

 

In all seriousness though, all I can add isn't that Johnson coached under Scott Linehan, Jim Caldwell, and Jack Del Rio who have all traditionally run power run schemes. (Though some of that was as a tight ends coach). What he was doing in Indy last year was all power stuff as well. 

 

I really hope we see we see something similar to what Indy and New England were doing last year. 

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11 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Scheme fit?

 

You can run block, pass block or you can't and this kid outright stinks at this point. He might look a bit better with upgrades at RT, OC but he would still be the weakest link. 

 

The entire 2018 Buffalo Bills starting line needs to be revamped with maybe keeping the one decent player in Dawkins as an OG, RT.

Revamped? Absolutely. Regardless, we need depth at the very least. The kid has shown in the past to at least be worthy of a reserve. And Teller last year was also worthy of that as a rookie. I'm not saying Miller is a 6 million dollar man, but he doesn't suck. I've seen him play well, albeit not recently. If the price is right, you keep him. But an upgrade would certainly be welcome

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11 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

In all seriousness though, all I can add isn't that Johnson coached under Scott Linehan, Jim Caldwell, and Jack Del Rio who have all traditionally run power run schemes. (Though some of that was as a tight ends coach). What he was doing in Indy last year was all power stuff as well. 

 

I really hope we see we see something similar to what Indy and New England were doing last year. 

Same. I know the objective is to improve the athleticism of the line this offseason, but that's a task. It would likely take more than offseason to accomplish this. The only two players(Teller/Dawkins) currently on the roster that project as long term guys are far better suited for the power scheme. 

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46 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Scheme fit?

 

You can run block, pass block or you can't and this kid outright stinks at this point. He might look a bit better with upgrades at RT, OC but he would still be the weakest link. 

 

The entire 2018 Buffalo Bills starting line needs to be revamped with maybe keeping the one decent player in Dawkins as an OG, RT.

I don’t think it’s nearly as simple as you are making it out to be.  There have been plying o linemen that struggled, went to a a new team, and became solid players.  

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Man there was a time we felt like johnny was looking like a pro bowl guard.

 

Consistency is a huge thing tho, it's biting us a little with Dawk now too.   

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1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said:

 

 

he also had some major adversities in his life that he had to deal with and people tend to not want to consider any of that.

I can sympathize with his hardships, hey we all have them in some form or another. But you have to believe OBD will approach this from a business perspective, past production and scheme fit. And from what we've seen he's not a world beater by any means, including his rookie year. TBH he's not much better than a vet minimum contract as a 2nd string player. 

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1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

As far as I'm concerned the Rob Johnson scheme is to take sacks, throw interceptions and look like a douche. 

 

check, check annnnd check! :thumbsup:

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