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Sal C: Bellicheck looking for McVay on the sidelines before the rams first drive - possible "tell"?

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13 minutes ago, GoFlamesGo said:

 

Anything is possible sure, but I personally find it unlikely a team is going to send scouts to every game another team that isn’t on their schedule plays over the course of the year to learn ‘tells.’

 

Let’s also not pretend to forget, Belichick has been PROVEN to have broken this rule. That is not conspiracy.

The Rams were on their schedule as soon as it was clear they were going to the playoffs. They played two playoff games before the SB. I’m confident there were pro scouts from the Pats (and Chiefs, etc)  at both.

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16 minutes ago, GoFlamesGo said:

 

Anything is possible sure, but I personally find it unlikely a team is going to send scouts to every game another team that isn’t on their schedule plays over the course of the year to learn ‘tells.’

 

Let’s also not pretend to forget, Belichick has been PROVEN to have broken this rule. That is not conspiracy.

 

You don’t have to send people to every game. The Rams played in 2 playoff games. You could easily have personnel scouting the playoff teams.

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3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The Rams were on their schedule as soon as it was clear they were going to the playoffs. They played two playoff games before the SB. I’m confident there were pro scouts from the Pats (and Chiefs, etc)  at both.

 

Fair point, but they would have to be scouting both teams sidelines, and Belichick would have to have a number of these scouts reliable enough that he would trust their eyes, memories and hand written notes. Where are these guys even conducting this not-easy-to conceal work from?

 

Again it’s possible, but ask yourself why you are giving BB the benefit of the doubt.

 

It would be interesting to see what the take on this clip would be from the perspective of another NFL HC.

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Belichick shifted gears so hard in the first half that he called a time out before a 3rd and 8, and ran a buck gain draw and punted it away.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, GoFlamesGo said:

 

Fair point, but they would have to be scouting both teams sidelines, and Belichick would have to have a number of these scouts reliable enough that he would trust their eyes, memories and hand written notes. Where are these guys even conducting this not-easy-to conceal work from?

 

Again it’s possible, but ask yourself why you are giving BB the benefit of the doubt.

 

It would be interesting to see what the take on this clip would be from the perspective of another NFL HC.

I’m not really giving him the benefit of the doubt as much as i know for a fact this is common practice. 

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NE is smarter than most teams and their mystique freaks out most teams and coaches  aside from Harbaugh, Pederson, Coughlin and Reid 

 

These other coaches just stand there like they saw a ghost or are just excited to ask Bill for his autograph and Tommy for a post game kiss

And before people like on Reid... He made halftime adjustments and dropped 31 on Belichick in the second half. Sadly, his defense sucked

 

Mr boy genius McVay and his amazing offense didn't even make a play.

Edited by TheFunPolice

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6 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I agree 100% to this. 

 

My guess is Bill had someone watch every LA game to find out how McVay singled in stuff after they turn the helmet mics off.  They captured everything McVay does and compared it to what then happened on the field.  They then assembled a cheat sheet IDing the key signals McVay used and gave Bill a full report.  Hell it might be as simple as where McVay stands on the sideline or who McVay stands next to.  What awes me is the attention to detail this kind of activity represents. 

 

But the question is would anyone call this cheating?  IMO it's not.  In fact it's really no different then a LB tipped off about which way a run is going because film study showed that the blocking FB tipped things off by leaning slightly.  Or a DB who is tipped off by the way a receiver stands when the ball is coming out quick to him.

 

 

Let's assume what you outlined is exactly, 100% what's going on here.

 

How in the world would BB be able to harness this information to his advantage in a timely manner?

 

One 1 or 2 key plays of the entire game, he could burn a TO and let the players know what he thinks is about to happen based on a McVay signal.

 

But how could you benefit from this information all game long?  There isn't enough time to do that.

 

Is there?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

NE is smarter than most teams and their mystique freaks out most teams and coaches  aside from Harbaugh, Pederson, Coughlin and Reid 

 

These other coaches just stand there like they saw a ghost or are just excited to ask Bill for his autograph and Tommy for a post game kiss

Hence why teams need to do the same thing back to them. Remember how upset Belichick was when TJ Ward took out Gronk’s knee in 2013? The only time Belichick gets emotional is when one of his stars goes down. In 2010 he blamed the field conditions for Welker’s injury. He’s such a control freak and those kind of injuries destroy so much of his in game planning. When Welker destroyed Akim Talib in the AFC Championship game concussing him Belichick said afterward “it was one of the worst plays I’ve ever seen”. Really Bill? 

 

 

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15 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Spy gate 2.0?

 

No.  3.0.

13 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Belichick has a entire dept dedicated to intelligence gathering led by Ernie Adams & now being assisted by Sean Harrington an MIT programmer who turned down jobs at Google & Amazon. 

 

https://slate.com/culture/2019/01/ernie-adams-berj-najarian-sean-harrington-nick-caserio-patriots.html

 

Meanwhile it seems the Bills have guys crunching numbers on abacuses.

 

If you say Belichick, whose father was a 30 year scout for the Naval Academy and wrote a infamous book on it, doesn’t treat this as war you’re missing the point. Belichick’s entire operation is based on studying the opponent & out prepping them. 

 

The only way you beat a superior coached team is knowing they are already know your every hand. You have to play different & must hit them unconventionally.

 

Installing gadget plays is nice, but so to is declaring war on his best players & hitting them late after the pass has left their hand. Brady never gets hit, so why not crush him 3 seconds after it’s out? Why not grab Brady and body slam his head into the field turf? Why not accidentally ‘trip’ and take a shot at his unguarded right knee? Why not have two guys hold up Edelman & have another guy take out his surgically repaired knee? 

 

To beat Belichick you need to have a long game approach & also an asymmetrical approach. Hindering his plans by taking out his best soliders is a good plan. 

 

Everything must be different because if you give this guy two weeks to prepare and you run the same stuff you are dead. 

 

  

 

Keegan-Michael-Key-Thank-you.gif

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6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

If they are looking for tells, you have to wonder if their intelligence was gathered legally (watching game film, obvious tendencies) or illegally (spying on practices, stealing playbooks, etc.)

 

And when, where, how did Goodell destroy the evidence?    Because after all, destroying evidence is always the right thing to do. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3244687 

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12 hours ago, Buddo said:

While I despise cheating generally, the NFL has traditionally been ok with anything that can be done by humans.

 

Coaches routinely hold play cards up in front of their face when making calls, to avoid being lip read.

 

Body language, in respect of how players set themselves, has given teams advantages over the years, whether it is something that gives away what D is coming, or whether it's going to be run or pass. Imho, this sort of thing is fair game.

 

If McVay needed to use hand signals to Goff for anything, then that falls within the compass. The more interesting thing would be if there's film that shows Belicheck watching McVay on the vast majority of the Rams offensive snaps. If he is, then you can probably guarantee he's found a 'tell'.

 

As others have pointed out, the best way to beat Belicheck, is by doing the unexpected, regularly, and in both halves of the game.

 

Ultimately, teams need to have play books that are very adaptable, and the players need to know how to adapt quickly. The Patsies can, and do this, regularly, and it's why they are such a tough team to beat.

Hope your not suggesting that by looking across the field and perhaps figuring something out, Belichick is cheating.

 

2 hours ago, thunderingsquid said:

 

No.  3.0.

 

Keegan-Michael-Key-Thank-you.gif

And Ahmen!

Edited by Formerly Allan in MD
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3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Let's assume what you outlined is exactly, 100% what's going on here.

 

How in the world would BB be able to harness this information to his advantage in a timely manner?

 

One 1 or 2 key plays of the entire game, he could burn a TO and let the players know what he thinks is about to happen based on a McVay signal.

 

But how could you benefit from this information all game long?  There isn't enough time to do that.

 

Is there?

 

 

 

Good questions and I don't know the answer to them but I'll make a guess.  Maybe he was trying to first locate then steal the signs in the first half for use in the 2nd half.  And it would be pretty simple for Belicheck to throw a hand signal out to somebody on his defense indicating a run or pass. 

 

There is that 15 second period after they turn off the helmet mics.  This is when Bill could be signalling his D.  Just getting a run versus a pass right would be huge for any pass rush & coverage.  Imagine being able to ignore the play fake as a safety or if you're a D lineman teeing off on the snap knowing it's not going to be a run.  Frankly I'm still amazed at how much pressure NE got on Goff for the ENTIRE game.  Where did that come from?  Did Bill figure out McVay's signals and was he able to just let his D know it's a pass or run.  That would be huge. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, GoFlamesGo said:

 

Umm, isn’t it illegal to film other teams’ sidelines (during the season to develop ‘tells,’ etc)? That tape you’re referring to would be, I believe, by definition illegal.

 

I can’t think of any other reason to want to see the opposing coach or know where they are.

Other teams can not film other teams but the NFL has film that teams exchange which I'm sure show the sideline from time to time.  It's not hard to think the Patriots saw something.  

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Once a cheater, always a cheater. I think he is just better at not getting caught. 

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Bellichick made all three coaches he faced in the playoffs look silly.  His team embarrassed each of the teams they faced. Only KC could do anything against the Pats at that was only for a half. This playoffs defined Bellichick as the GOAT but also glaringly exposed how utterly garbage most of the rest of the coaches in the NFL are. I cannot even think of any current coach who can outcoach or outwit Bellichick in a total game plan. Maybe some areas here or there but not enough to really beat him. Pederson did a great job last year and maybe Peyton might have given Bellichick a run if the Saints hadn't been swindled by the refs. But everyone else in this league is light years away from Bellichick.

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17 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Ask yourself, is the Patriots defense that good this year to hold McVeigh's offense to only 3 points?  Now everyone can have a bad game.  I admit this clip seems very far fetched but they have been caught doing things against the rules in the past. 

 

Which rule is “watching the other teams coaches” against? 

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2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Bellichick made all three coaches he faced in the playoffs look silly.  His team embarrassed each of the teams they faced. Only KC could do anything against the Pats at that was only for a half. This playoffs defined Bellichick as the GOAT but also glaringly exposed how utterly garbage most of the rest of the coaches in the NFL are. I cannot even think of any current coach who can outcoach or outwit Bellichick in a total game plan. Maybe some areas here or there but not enough to really beat him. Pederson did a great job last year and maybe Peyton might have given Bellichick a run if the Saints hadn't been swindled by the refs. But everyone else in this league is light years away from Bellichick.

 

Pederson did a great job because he prepared for everything.    He was paranoid and went against tendency and it paid off.   

 

So it can be done but it requires some attention to detail.

 

In both of the playoff games the Rams lost the past two seasons McVay got caught thinking he could just do what he was doing......he clearly needs to be more willing and able to adjust.

 

My biggest concern with McDermott is that in all 4 games versus Belichick he has looked like a totally dominated idiot on the sideline. 

 

He's been willing to correct mistakes in personnel evaluation and fire coaches of underperforming units etc......and that is encouraging...........we gotta' hang our hopes on that.

 

But ultimately the question is if McD himself is a good enough game planner and game day decision maker.

 

Two more yawner losses with McDeer-head-lights sideline work versus the Pats next year and getting his team to trust the process is going to get a lot harder.

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7 hours ago, thunderingsquid said:

 

And when, where, how did Goodell destroy the evidence?    Because after all, destroying evidence is always the right thing to do. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3244687 

 

This is why I can't give the Pats their full die. Too many unanswered questions thanks to Roger Goodell.

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12 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Good questions and I don't know the answer to them but I'll make a guess.  Maybe he was trying to first locate then steal the signs in the first half for use in the 2nd half.  And it would be pretty simple for Belicheck to throw a hand signal out to somebody on his defense indicating a run or pass. 

 

There is that 15 second period after they turn off the helmet mics.  This is when Bill could be signalling his D.  Just getting a run versus a pass right would be huge for any pass rush & coverage.  Imagine being able to ignore the play fake as a safety or if you're a D lineman teeing off on the snap knowing it's not going to be a run.  Frankly I'm still amazed at how much pressure NE got on Goff for the ENTIRE game.  Where did that come from?  Did Bill figure out McVay's signals and was he able to just let his D know it's a pass or run.  That would be huge. 

 

 

This could have something to do with why the Rams switched it up in the 2nd half . They started huddling until the mics went off at 15secs . I think the Rams caught on but it was too late. I wonder what there by plays stats were after they started doing this? Anybody know the answer?

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On 2/7/2019 at 8:18 PM, NoSaint said:

 

Which rule is “watching the other teams coaches” against? 

I'm not sure the point is watching the other coach but that there was something more nefarious at play.  Just my take on what might be implied

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11 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I'm not sure the point is watching the other coach but that there was something more nefarious at play.  Just my take on what might be implied

 

Nothing here at all, Pats once again totally out-prepared an opponent

 

 

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On 2/7/2019 at 12:36 PM, thunderingsquid said:

 

And when, where, how did Goodell destroy the evidence?    Because after all, destroying evidence is always the right thing to do. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3244687 

Yeah, just like burying the worlds most wanted terorist at sea.

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1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yeah, just like burying the worlds most wanted terorist at sea.

 

The Bin Ladens bought a condo in Trump Tower. Look there.

Edited by PromoTheRobot
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It’s not a fair fight at this point , and won’t be until BB retires.   

 

McVay is 33 and was in his first SB.  BB has lived there.  I’d have to google to get an accurate total if how many times he has been there.

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18 minutes ago, Success said:

It’s not a fair fight at this point , and won’t be until BB retires.   

 

McVay is 33 and was in his first SB.  BB has lived there.  I’d have to google to get an accurate total if how many times he has been there.

Didn't bother Pederson. I've never been a big believer in "experience." You either have it or you don't. I'm not saying McVay will fail as a coach, but I don't buy lack of experience as an excuse. Losing a SB is not a building block. As a matter of fact, that team often isn't even competitive the next season.

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