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D'haquille aka Duke Williams, Bills' newest WR better than any draft prospect


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4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

 

There wasn't any press about where Williams looked.  My recollection is that all of a sudden, out of the blue, it was announced that he had signed with Buffalo.   I don't recall any news about any visits, to Buffalo or otherwise.   I think Williams was flying under the news media radar.   It was known, apparently, that he had permission from his Canadian team to look for a US deal, but I never saw anything saying this guy was available.   

 

 

I appreciate the fact that you're rooting for a guy working hard to overcome personal obstacles. That being said, it's entirely possible he flew under the radar because there wasn't much interest league wide. We tend to hyper-focus on Bills acquisitions. In the grand scheme of things, he's not LIKELY to be an impact player. I think the odds are 50/50 he even makes the team.

 

The same was said of Robert Foster so you never know. 

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2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I appreciate the fact that you're rooting for a guy working hard to overcome personal obstacles. That being said, it's entirely possible he flew under the radar because there wasn't much interest league wide. We tend to hyper-focus on Bills acquisitions. In the grand scheme of things, he's not LIKELY to be an impact player. I think the odds are 50/50 he even makes the team.

 

The same was said of Robert Foster so you never know. 

That's probably true.  He's like those couple of camp favorites several years ago - everyone loved the guys, and then they got cut and never caught on anyplace else.  

 

But I'll come back to where I started - the guy seems to have great hands, and great hands can hide a lot of ills.  

 

We'll see.  

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15 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree with those who say that Duke has been gifted an excellent opportunity. Like other position groups on offence there will be lots of competition and room to make the roster, especially if the Bills don't prioritize WR in the draft (if eg. they go DT and edge the first two rounds). Williams is a big physical receiver who tracks the ball well and has excellent hands. The team can use a player with this skillset if he can transition. If Daboll opts for some 11 personnel sets I can see him as a useful complement in his O, and a big help to Allen especially mid-range over the middle of the field. He wasn't asked to block in Edmonton, but if he can do that I can see him as possibly serving occasionally as a borderline hybrid TE. I think he is a better receiver than Charles Clay at this point in Clay's career. 

Idk whether or how well he will make out against a big step up in the level of play. I doubt that he will be a star but he may prove a useful addition and well worth a roster spot. At the very least it' will be interesting to see how his story plays out.

 

As others have said, the MVP post in this thread.

 

Besides the obvious (getting open and catching the ball), his ticket to making this team will be blocking and special teams contribution. If he can do these well, he has a good shot. And as you point out, if he is adept at blocking, he has the body size to be a hybrid TE/WR role.

 

I'm rooting for him.

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14 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Agreed.

 

I didn't read through all of the thread, but the op asserts, even in the title, that he's better than any draft prospect.

He's also 25.

DK for example is 21.

That's 4 years, which isn't peanuts in the NFL.

Drafting a guy who might be with you for 8-10 years vs 4-5 for Duke before they hit that 30-31 year old wall, is something that shouldn't be ignored.

 

True: Drafting a guy is an investment of significant capital (especially for a guy like DK, who will go 1st round, by nearly all accounts).

 

True: OP stated that Duke is better than any draft prospect WR in this class.

 

Where this argument falls apart is the investment side. We've invested next to nothing on Duke; whereas, were we to pick up DK at #9, or trade back into the teens to nab him, THAT would be a major capital investment. Part of the reason it's such a major investment is that you know you're drafting a guy in his early 20's (unless it's a BYU kid or a military service situation). Part of the reason we spent chump change (not the whole reason, BUT I'd argue a significant element of that reason) is precisely what you stated: Duke is 25. 

 

What I'm saying is that you're comparing apples to transmissions... different circumstances; different expectations; different sunk costs; different expectations.

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1 hour ago, CSBill said:

 

As others have said, the MVP post in this thread.

 

Besides the obvious (getting open and catching the ball), his ticket to making this team will be blocking and special teams contribution. If he can do these well, he has a good shot. And as you point out, if he is adept at blocking, he has the body size to be a hybrid TE/WR role.

 

I'm rooting for him.

The early comparisons on Williams were with Eric Moulds (in terms of size and speed).  Well, THAT would be a winner.  I'd be just as happy if he ended up as the second coming of Marcus Easley.  And special teams is my guess as to where he ends up.

 

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32 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

True: Drafting a guy is an investment of significant capital (especially for a guy like DK, who will go 1st round, by nearly all accounts).

 

True: OP stated that Duke is better than any draft prospect WR in this class.

 

Where this argument falls apart is the investment side. We've invested next to nothing on Duke; whereas, were we to pick up DK at #9, or trade back into the teens to nab him, THAT would be a major capital investment. Part of the reason it's such a major investment is that you know you're drafting a guy in his early 20's (unless it's a BYU kid or a military service situation). Part of the reason we spent chump change (not the whole reason, BUT I'd argue a significant element of that reason) is precisely what you stated: Duke is 25. 

 

What I'm saying is that you're comparing apples to transmissions... different circumstances; different expectations; different sunk costs; different expectations.

 

I don't disagree with your assessment.

I am not even advocating that we must take a wr at #9

I'm just saying you can't assert he's better than any draft prospect this year

I also can't assert he's not

The age thing is big

25 is Young

21 is younger

Wrs unless all time great tend to hit a wall at 30

 

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Williams will actually be 26 in a month.  But he's only played 2 years of professional football, and CFL football at that.  Again he's found money if he shows anything because it cost almost nothing to acquire him.  And he, the signings of Brown and Beasley and the promise of Foster and Jones are the reasons why I can't see them taking a WR in this draft.

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5 minutes ago, Doc said:

Williams will actually be 26 in a month.  But he's only played 2 years of professional football, and CFL football at that.  Again he's found money if he shows anything because it cost almost nothing to acquire him.  And he, the signings of Brown and Beasley and the promise of Foster and Jones are the reasons why I can't see them taking a WR in this draft.

 

All valid points.

26 coming from CFL is definitely less trauma to the body than playing in the NFL, but it's still 4-5 years older than most of the wr prospects.

Anyway.

The signings at wr (or who then didn't sign/trade for) could also point to them going after a big athletic wr, as they lack that.

Duke is what? 6'2 and like 215-220? He's a solid size, but I don't think they're betting the farm on him being a #1 outside threat.

Beane, after last year we've seen, loves his athletic specimens.

Even if it's not DK at #9 (or fant who fits that description from a TE spot but is more of a receiver style te) it wouldn't shock me if he grabbed one of the freak bodied guys in the second.

 

They need help at:

Wr

Lb

Te

Dline interior

Dline edge

Rb

 

I think they believe that the oline is shored up enough to not take a high pick this year.

This is a crappy LB class.

Dline is really deep this year, so is oline.

I could see them waiting on both of those.

Value in rb position rounds 3-5 also can be had.

I think a wr or a te early wouldn't be that surprising, neither would a dline player.

 

Ed Oliver is pretty athletically gifted too, he might also get beane's jollies rocking.

It's a really hard draft to peg for us this year I think.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

All valid points

26 coming from CFL is definitely less trauma to the body than playing in the NFL, but it's still 4-5 years older than most of the wr prospects.

Anyway.

The signings at wr (or who then didn't sign/trade for) could also point to them going after a big athletic wr, as they lack that.

Duke is what? 6'2 and like 215-220? He's a solid size, but I don't think they're betting the farm on him being a #1 outside threat.

Beane, after last year we've seen, loves his athletic specimens.

Even if it's not DK at #9 (or fant who fits that description from a TE spot but is more of a receiver style te) it wouldn't shock me if he grabbed one of the freak bodied guys in the second.

 

They need help at:

Wr

Lb

Te

Dline interior

Dline edge

Rb

 

I think they believe that the oline is shored up enough to not take a high pick this year.

This is a crappy LB class.

Dline is really deep this year, so is oline.

I could see them waiting on both of those.

Value in rb position rounds 3-5 also can be had.

I think a wr or a te early wouldn't be that surprising, neither would a dline player.

 

Ed Oliver is pretty athletically gifted too, he might also get beane's jollies rocking.

It's a really hard draft to peg for us this year I think.

 

Of the top-20 receivers last year, only a handful were over 6'2".  While having a taller WR would theoretically better, they're more the exception than the rule.

 

And I agree about athletic specimens, but I think they'll look for one in an area of need.  Like an Oliver.

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2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Of the top-20 receivers last year, only a handful were over 6'2".  While having a taller WR would theoretically better, they're more the exception than the rule.

 

And I agree about athletic specimens, but I think they'll look for one in an area of need.  Like an Oliver.

 

Wr is an area of need.

Other than Beasley we don't really have a proven wr on the roster.

Brown is fast but hasn't really done a lot to make me think he's elite.

Zay is okay, and that's all.

Foster looked great end of last year, and maybe they are thinking they want to give him the reigns this year and hope he turns into Antonio brown 2.0 without the diva.

Most of the 5'11 size top wrs have a big body opposite them, or a beast te

Anyway, I think Duke Williams size is fine, I wasn't saying he's small by any means, and he's got a chance hopefully to show his chops.

 

I think wr/te/dline are all equally of need this year and all 3 are in play early.

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13 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

Wr is an area of need.

Other than Beasley we don't really have a proven wr on the roster.

Brown is fast but hasn't really done a lot to make me think he's elite.

Zay is okay, and that's all.

Foster looked great end of last year, and maybe they are thinking they want to give him the reigns this year and hope he turns into Antonio brown 2.0 without the diva.

Most of the 5'11 size top wrs have a big body opposite them, or a beast te

Anyway, I think Duke Williams size is fine, I wasn't saying he's small by any means, and he's got a chance hopefully to show his chops.

 

I think wr/te/dline are all equally of need this year and all 3 are in play early.

 

A rookie WR is wholly unproven.  And again, with Brown and Beasley getting paid $9M each and guaranteed to start, and Foster being the other starter, where does the rookie fit in?  It's not worth wasting the draft capital this year until they find out what they have, or don't, in Foster and Duke.

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16 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

The jet sweeps went from trash to effective when they started giving the ball to McKittrick and not Zay. 

That's why if they dont go Wr in the first I would like them to draft Parris Campbell in the second.  Him in that role would be dynamite.  He also has the size and speed to play outside as well.  He could be our Tyreek Hill.

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32 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

A rookie WR is wholly unproven.  And again, with Brown and Beasley getting paid $9M each and guaranteed to start, and Foster being the other starter, where does the rookie fit in?  It's not worth wasting the draft capital this year until they find out what they have, or don't, in Foster and Duke.

 

...bonafide TE is probably the higher priority (I hope)........

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32 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

A rookie WR is wholly unproven.  And again, with Brown and Beasley getting paid $9M each and guaranteed to start, and Foster being the other starter, where does the rookie fit in?  It's not worth wasting the draft capital this year until they find out what they have, or don't, in Foster and Duke.

 

To you it's not.

To the front office it might be.

Wr is not a position of strength right now.

It's a position of uncertainty but with good possibility.

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...bonafide TE is probably the higher priority (I hope)........

 

Agreed.

That's why I said wr/te/dline are all on the table.

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1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...bonafide TE is probably the higher priority (I hope)........

 

Yup.  But if they do go TE, it betting it won't be at 9.

 

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

To you it's not.

To the front office it might be.

Wr is not a position of strength right now.

It's a position of uncertainty but with good possibility.

 

Again SNY, they paid Brown and Beasley good money so they're starting.  Foster showed enough after returning to the active roster to merit being the other starter.  They still have Zay.  And Duke is an unknown.  A rookie WR is completely unproven and drafting one doesn't make WR a position of strength in and of itself.  They won't be taking a WR before day 3 is my bet.

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1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  But if they do go TE, it betting it won't be at 9.

 

 

Again SNY, they paid Brown and Beasley good money so they're starting.  Foster showed enough after returning to the active roster to merit being the other starter.  They still have Zay.  And Duke is an unknown.  A rookie WR is completely unproven and drafting one doesn't make WR a position of strength in and of itself.  They won't be taking a WR before day 3 is my bet.

 

Day 3 might be in the cards for a wr.

YOU think #9 is too rich for a TE.

Plenty of other teams might not.

The bills might not.

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Just now, SouthNYfan said:

Day 3 might be in the cards for a wr.

YOU think #9 is too rich for a TE.

Plenty of other teams might not.

The bills might not.

 

If the Bills were a TE away from contending, I'd take Hock.  But I'd take the risk of trading down and taker him later in the round.

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2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If the Bills were a TE away from contending, I'd take Hock.  But I'd take the risk of trading down and taker him later in the round.

 

Depends where you can trade down to, and how willing you'd be to settle if he gets taken before where youb traded down to.

 

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3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

Depends where you can trade down to, and how willing you'd be to settle if he gets taken before where youb traded down to.

 

Yup.  Gotta look at the teams below you.

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All you guys keep talking about whether this position or that position is an area of need.   That's all well and good, but that is NOT how McBeane are approaching this.  

 

BPA, BPA, BPA.   

 

Beane has told us that he uses free agency to fill holes for the short term, and he uses the draft to build the team for the long term.  And he's also essentially said in recent interviews that he has filled the holes - offensive line and wide out.   That's where he saw problems that needed to be addressed immediately.   In other words he's said that he and McD are ready and willing to play football with the team they can field with the current roster.   

 

The draft is for making the team better, and they don't particularly care WHERE they get better.   The BPA at 9 is almost certainly going to be better than someone they have on the roster.   It could be a defensive lineman, it could be an offensive lineman, it could be a wideout, it could be a tight end, it could be a linebacker, it could be a running back, it could be a defensive back.   McBeane really don't care what position he plays - if he's the BPA in the first round, he's going to make the team better.  

 

McBeane aren't comparing the relative strengths of various positions on the team and decided to point the draft in the area they believe is weakest.   They're going to take the BPA and plug him into the team.   If it creates an excess of talent at the position, they'll trade someone.   

 

It's a very simple philosophy - in the draft, add the best players you can.  

 

Now, when you get down to the later rounds, players remaining tend to have very similar ratings, even identical ratings.  So in those rounds, their are multiple "BPAs," so you can pick the one where your team might need the most help.   But not in the early rounds.   In the early, just take the best player and move on.  

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