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D'haquille aka Duke Williams, Bills' newest WR better than any draft prospect


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36 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I’m betting they don’t take a wide receiver early in the draft.  They signed Brown and Beasley to be the two of the top three wide receivers on the team. They see what they have in Foster so he’s probably the other starter. They have no idea what they have in Duke Williams so I don’t see why they would add a top pick at wide receiver who won’t be getting a whole lot of reps. 

If they don’t take a receiver early because of Brown and Beasley, then I will lost all hope in them.  We have a roster of 3 and 4 type receivers.  If you really want to give Allen everything he needs, you don’t settle for this group we have now.  It’s still probably a bottom third group.  They need a number 1 type guy. 

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

No doubt, the absence of receiver talent was important.  He knows he isn't going to get a lot of shots at the NFL, so he wanted to go somewhere where he could stick. 

 

But when you read about his past and what he says about it, I think he was looking for an emotional fit much more than the average player might.  Frankly, he probably also viewed as a plus the low key lifestyle of Buffalo compared to New Orleans or LA or New York.  He sounds like a guy who is genuinely committed to staying out of the 'hood.

I’m not trying to come at you and respect your point.  I just believe that the chance to make a roster here is why he signed.  I think McDermott is a fine but average type of coach like most guys in the nfl are.  Duke not going to LA has more to do with the fact he probably won’t make those teams than living in LA or the coach. 

 

And I don’t remember but what were the other teams and offers for Williams?

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1 hour ago, Josh "Real Deal" Allen said:

It may however be a different kind of receiver! A TIght End perhaps?

Irv Smith Jr is a WR/TE hybrid who can be moved around in Daboll offense 

 

Fant is also a guy who can play that role 

Edited by YoloinOhio
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44 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

And BPA is subjective.  For example, for the Cards, Murray is BPA in the entire draft.  To other teams...not so much.

That isn't BPA.   That's a needs driven formula.  Beane has been clear that is NOT what he does.   They put a value on every player based on how good they expect him to be in the league.  They do not put any value at all on whether they need a player at a particular position.   

 

What Beane claims is that in the first couple of rounds, they take the name at the top of the their board, regardless of position.  Now, I think truth be told, if the name at the top is a QB, they might take the second name on their board.   Or they will trade down to a lower pick.  

42 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

I’m not trying to come at you and respect your point.  I just believe that the chance to make a roster here is why he signed.  I think McDermott is a fine but average type of coach like most guys in the nfl are.  Duke not going to LA has more to do with the fact he probably won’t make those teams than living in LA or the coach. 

 

And I don’t remember but what were the other teams and offers for Williams?

I think I'm correct, but I'll admit I'm guessing.   I think McDermott is more of personal leader and mentor than most coaches in the league.   He's a different kind of animal from Belichick.  

 

There wasn't any press about where Williams looked.  My recollection is that all of a sudden, out of the blue, it was announced that he had signed with Buffalo.   I don't recall any news about any visits, to Buffalo or otherwise.   I think Williams was flying under the news media radar.   It was known, apparently, that he had permission from his Canadian team to look for a US deal, but I never saw anything saying this guy was available.   

 

Because of his history, I'm rooting big-time for him.  He's worked hard to be a success, and this is his shot.  

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1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Not sarcasm at all. I don’t think we will draft a WR early now. I think we have a good group.

 

John Brown's contract is very easy to get out of after year one. I think secretly the Bills are hoping to have his replacement already on the roster after the draft. Ideally he will be a stop gap who at the very least pushes Foster to compete. I still expect us to draft a WR early. Probably not round 1 but somewhere between 2 and 4.

Edited by HappyDays
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1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Not sarcasm at all. I don’t think we will draft a WR early now. I think we have a good group. I do think we will take a TE early and I do think that it’s the right move. My meaning of the no room was about the training camp fodder level guy that this thread was about. Not to say that we CANT add a top level WR somewhere in the draft. I’m just not expecting any WR other then the ones I named to be on the team. Roberts is an elite level return man and will absolutely be one of the WRs. The STs guy still counts.

We are in agreement then. Roberts certainly counts but they COULD carry 7 if he’s one of them. That was my point there. If a guy (like Duke) earns a roster spot it isn’t necessarily at the expense of another WR.

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8 minutes ago, R Y G A R said:

I hope Mckenzie makes it. I like him a lot on those jet sweeps. 

Jet sweeps are going to Andre Roberts this year.  He's a better quick returner, and probably better on the jet sweeps, too.  

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1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I’m betting they don’t take a wide receiver early in the draft.  They signed Brown and Beasley to be the two of the top three wide receivers on the team. They see what they have in Foster so he’s probably the other starter. They have no idea what they have in Duke Williams so I don’t see why they would add a top pick at wide receiver who won’t be getting a whole lot of reps. 

I guess that we disagree then. I think that they are still looking for a guy at the top of the depth chart (hence the Antonio Brown conversation). I don’t picture them adding a guy to fight for reps. I picture them adding a potential #1. 

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1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 If a guy (like Duke) earns a roster spot it isn’t necessarily at the expense of another WR.

Actually, I think Duke is a direct threat to Jones.  Certainly his hands are better.  Jones has the better 40 time, but Jones never has struck as much of deep threat.  

 

We will see. 

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1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....my lowly posts emanate from the "bowels of the TBD basement" only to admire those far superior with a better brain...my apology..........

Not sure what your upset about? 

 

People are reading too much into this. He came to the Bills because that’s his best chance to make an NFL roster. When you are a FA, especially a guy that’s not in the league, your first concern is a roster spot. That’s #1 on the list of needs. There are ancillary things to consider but nothing is as important as #1. When he looked at the Bills he saw a path. He did the sensible thing. 

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Actually, I think Duke is a direct threat to Jones.  Certainly his hands are better.  Jones has the better 40 time, but Jones never has struck as much of deep threat.  

 

We will see. 

I could see that!! Zay definitely isn’t a lock to make the team. 

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4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that we disagree then. I think that they are still looking for a guy at the top of the depth chart (hence the Antonio Brown conversation). I don’t picture them adding a guy to fight for reps. I picture them adding a potential #1. 

I really don't think the Bills think this way.   I think McBeane view it this way:  We've got our quarterback.   We've got our middle linebacker.  Now our job is to add talent, wherever that talent may fall on our roster.   If the BPA is a DE, great.  If he's a wideout, great.   If he's a corner, great.   If he's a guard, great.   We'll take whoever the most talented guy is, and he will make out team better.  

 

I think their philosophy is that we will fill holes in free agency, we'll add talent in the draft, and we will play with the guys we have.  

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13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Not sure what your upset about? 

 

People are reading too much into this. He came to the Bills because that’s his best chance to make an NFL roster. When you are a FA, especially a guy that’s not in the league, your first concern is a roster spot. That’s #1 on the list of needs. There are ancillary things to consider but nothing is as important as #1. When he looked at the Bills he saw a path. He did the sensible thing. 

......huh?...I NEVER get upset here my friend.....it is a message board with a dichotomy of OPINIONS......respect for each other is the ONLY way this place works...I offer my opinion and some agree while others do not......for those that disagree, I do not belabor my position trying to convince them otherwise...we shared, we differed and so be it.....simple...as far as Duke, what has passed is in the past....he gets a clean slate with ZERO pre-judgments.....just "show me NOW"...

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy
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11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I really don't think the Bills think this way.   I think McBeane view it this way:  We've got our quarterback.   We've got our middle linebacker.  Now our job is to add talent, wherever that talent may fall on our roster.   If the BPA is a DE, great.  If he's a wideout, great.   If he's a corner, great.   If he's a guard, great.   We'll take whoever the most talented guy is, and he will make out team better.  

 

I think their philosophy is that we will fill holes in free agency, we'll add talent in the draft, and we will play with the guys we have.  

 

I think they identify which needs they can fill in free agency and which they should be able to fill in the draft, and they plan their whole offseason around that. I'll be shocked if our 1st round pick isn't a defensive lineman. That's the only need we didn't even try to fill in free agency. I'm sure that heading into free agency they had already identified several d-linemen that they would be comfortable drafting at pick 9, so they didn't break the bank for anyone. Don't be surprised if they trade up for an Ed Oliver or Josh Allen if he falls. When BPA matches need they aren't afraid to move up for someone. I think Beane figures you can add 3rd and 4th round talent in FA, which leaves the door open to use those picks as trade bait on game changing 1st round players.

Edited by HappyDays
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14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If they don’t take a receiver early because of Brown and Beasley, then I will lost all hope in them.  We have a roster of 3 and 4 type receivers.  If you really want to give Allen everything he needs, you don’t settle for this group we have now.  It’s still probably a bottom third group.  They need a number 1 type guy.

 

I'm sure they're losing sleep over that prospect CB.  ;)

 

The Bills brought in Brown and Beasley to be 2 of the top 3 WR's.  They're not paying them ~$9M apiece to sit the bench.  Brown started 15 of 16 games last year for the Ravens, even after Lamar Jackson became the starter, because his speed opens things up.  When it comes to the other starting spot, there is no denying that Foster showed he deserved to be starting.  So I don't know how you justify taking a wholly unproven rookie, much less in this class where there is no consensus #1 WR, and start him over Foster.

 

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

That isn't BPA.   That's a needs driven formula.  Beane has been clear that is NOT what he does.   They put a value on every player based on how good they expect him to be in the league.  They do not put any value at all on whether they need a player at a particular position.   

 

What Beane claims is that in the first couple of rounds, they take the name at the top of the their board, regardless of position.  Now, I think truth be told, if the name at the top is a QB, they might take the second name on their board.   Or they will trade down to a lower pick.  

 

Well if they did that then...

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2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I look at the WRs as

Brown

Zay

Cole

Foster

Mckenzie

Roberts

 

meaning: no room for another guy

 

I think McKenzie will have to compete for a spot.  Duke Williams will be his direct competitor, and there may possibly be a draft pick in the competition as well.

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2 hours ago, Josh "Real Deal" Allen said:

It may however be a different kind of receiver! A TIght End perhaps?

 

I can't see them taking a TE at 9.  I just can't.

 

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that we disagree then. I think that they are still looking for a guy at the top of the depth chart (hence the Antonio Brown conversation). I don’t picture them adding a guy to fight for reps. I picture them adding a potential #1. 

 

They went after AB and then decided against it and signed JB and CB.  Again I can't see them taking a WR, much less in this class, anywhere on day 1 or 2.  Next year?  Maybe.

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13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 I think Beane figures you can add 3rd and 4th round talent in FA, which leaves the door open to use those picks as trade bait on game changing 1st round players.

I don't think this is they way he thinks about it, just based on what he's said.  

 

I think he uses free agency as short-term, stop-gap measure.   I think he's looking for Matt Milanos in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.   

 

I don't think he believes in chasing game changing players in the first round, not once he has his QB and MLB.   I think he's look to increase the total talent level on the team.  

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2 hours ago, without a drought said:

Having Duke Williams will not in any way affect the Bills plans for wr in the draft.

...from his troubled days, UDFA selection and then cut by the Rams, kid chose the CFL to get his act together......and by most accounts, he has worked hard at it....I'm CERTAIN( opinion) that McDermott laid down the law as far as the "process" conditions of his signing....probably his LAST shot at his ultimate NFL dream......heed the warning lad just like Foster did...you'll be a helluva lot better off....good luck and "show us"....stay tuned........

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4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think this is they way he thinks about it, just based on what he's said.  

 

I think he uses free agency as short-term, stop-gap measure.   I think he's looking for Matt Milanos in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.   

 

I don't think he believes in chasing game changing players in the first round, not once he has his QB and MLB.   I think he's look to increase the total talent level on the team.  

 

I disagree.  Last year with the trade-ups for Allen and Edmunds told me he's looking for game changing talent in the 1st.

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