Jump to content

D'haquille aka Duke Williams, Bills' newest WR better than any draft prospect


Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...agree with this and they went about it in the way they felt it had to be done.....also agree on the culture part.......Marrone's big selling point to Brandon was professing "culture change"....he called Brandon almost daily to find out his hire status......problem was Doug acted like General Patton......a close friend (diehard fan) hosted a staff dinner one night after practice and restaurant was 20 minutes late serving..he went nuts and rushes everybody to finish so to make up the 20 minutes...and then back to Fisher for MORE meetings, usually until 9 or 10PM, with Brandon/Whaley required to be there...they got sick of it and turned on him....the culture got worse IMO undr Wrecks because he was a bloviating azzclown with no discipline....turning us into his "Jets West Circus" set this club back two years....enter McDermott with his broom, mop, dust pan and dumpster to clean up the mess.....not so sure about Whaley being the contracts culprit......see the 2008 headline about Overdorf's promotion and then decide......he is still there and I doubt he surrendered that control to Whaley.......

 

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.- Associated Press

Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

 

The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season.

 

For Overdorf, the promotion means he formally becomes the team's top executive in day-to-day football matters, answering to Brandon and Bills owner Ralph Wilson. Overdorf is entering his 23rd season with the team and has handled contract talks for most of this decade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait.........Logic said Whaley handed out bad contracts?

 

There was a significant disconnect between the GM and the contracts being done during the Nix/Whaley era.  

 

If your owners are the Rooney's or the Mara's that might work.............but when your owners have no idea how to run an NFL team they need a GM who can be involved in all aspects of personnel......including contracts.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Wait.........Logic said Whaley handed out bad contracts?

 

There was a significant disconnect between the GM and the contracts being done during the Nix/Whaley era.  

 

If your owners are the Rooney's or the Mara's that might work.............but when your owners have no idea how to run an NFL team they need a GM who can be involved in all aspects of personnel......including contracts.

 

 

....good, bad or indifferent, it seems to contradict the powers & control that Overdorf was given in 2008......certainly possible he ceded those powers....still being employed at OBD today, wonder what powers he currently has....and I STILL maintain the scurrilous Littman had financial veto powers, protecting his gratis 1% interest in the club courtesy of Ralph.....got a nice check for $14 mil when Pegs bought Bflo.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Logic said:


Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

Beane’s background is cap and contracts too but overdorf is really good at what he does, I believe they work together with him assisting and taking directive from  Beane

Edited by YoloinOhio
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, DJB said:

No question at minimum hes at least better than Kelvin Benjamin.  

 

I suppose it helps not eating furniture for breakfast like KB does

I know he sucks (though our current regime saw him first hand and still traded for him) but KB was a former 1st rounder who had a 1,000 season in the nfl.

 

this guy is money found when doing laundry.  Expect nothing and if you find something, it’s a bonus. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I look at Duke Williams as a Cam Phillips type receiver who is 4 inches taller.  That four inches is important and is the reason why Williams might make the roster (other than his last name) and Cam Phillips won't.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Logic said:


Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

 

 

...darn good point Logic........NOT a criticism, but I just don't see how Overdorf could have the knowledge/expertise about a possible signee regarding his market value/skill set among his peers financially nor the appropriate length of the deal (McBeane and his staff of 17+, many of which are VP's of Player Personnel or Directors of Pro Player Personnel from elsewhere have that expertise IMO)....more reasonably, I could see McBeane handing over the agreed upon details of the deal and Overdorf drawing up the contract, followed by a cap update to McBeane as to where things now stand.....my speculation....BTW on the Williams kid: pretty sad how some of the TBD posting experts already have him labelled as "camp fodder that won't even make the team".....welcome Duke.....just sidestep the pigeon s%$t on the red carpet rolled out for you...SMH....

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I look at Duke Williams as a Cam Phillips type receiver who is 4 inches taller.  That four inches is important and is the reason why Williams might make the roster (other than his last name) and Cam Phillips won't.  

Those 4” (?) don’t matter if you can’t separate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

10 minutes ago, Logic said:


Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

People used to claim that Overdorf had too much control, indirectly, over major personnel decisions, simply by exercising his control as the cap and contract guru.  I can't imagine that he has that kind of control under Beane.   Beane is highly structured and organized.   There is, for lack of a better word, a process.  There's a chain of command, and whenever Beane talks about the chain of command it's clear that he, McDermott, the Pegulas and no one else are in charge.  

 

I'd like to think that Beane's view of Overdorf is that he is someone who, compared to others in the league, is very good at what he does.   And it's fair to say thT Overdorf has survived because he has adapted to the process.   The process is all about total commitment to the team and continuous personal improvement.  Overdorf has goals and objectives that are established for him by Beane and Overdorf jointly; Overdorf buys into the goals and objectives and he must be achieving them or he'd be gone.  That's the way the process works.  

 

Changing the subject slightly, one thing that gives me hope for the offense this season is that the Bills kept Daboll.  Part of working in the process is continuous improvement.   The special teams under performed in a variety of ways, and Crossman is gone.  The oline under performed and the oline coach is gone.  I'm guessing that  McBeane's evaluation process told them that the special teams problem was at the special teams coach level, but the evaluation told them the offensive problems were NOT at the offensive coordinator level.  I mean, no one would have been shocked if the Bills had fired Daboll after last season.  The fact that they didn't says to me that the Bills have a high level of confidence that Daboll can do the job, based on how he performed last season.  That is, Daboll survived like Overdorf has survived.   

 

Which leads me to expect two things that we've talked about here extensively:  1.  Josh Allen is going to be completing a lot more passes to underneath receivers, because he will be told by Daboll, repeatedly, to take the high percentage throw.  2.  The receivers who play will be receivers who catch the ball well.  That's why they got Beasley; they've said as much.  He's going to be Allen's security blanket, as he was Prescott's - "when all else fails, Josh, Cole will be where you expect him to be - throw it to him."  And, I'd guess they're hoping, Duke will be another.  He'll run the route and he'll fight like hell to catch the ball.  "And, Josh, you see that really big guy?  That's Tyler Kroft.  You can expect to see him out there, too.   And, by the way, you already know Robert Foster, and this guy here is John Brown.  When the defense gets tired of letting you complete passes to Cole and Duke or Zay and Kroft, they'll bring the safety down to plug the middle.  That's when you'll see Foster or Brown running past their defenders, heading for the end zone.  When that happens, throw it to them."     And I think that this vision is very clearly on Daboll's plate - he knows it's his job to make it happen.  

 

 

  • Like (+1) 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....good, bad or indifferent, it seems to contradict the powers & control that Overdorf was given in 2008......certainly possible he ceded those powers....still being employed at OBD today, wonder what powers he currently has....and I STILL maintain the scurrilous Littman had financial veto powers, protecting his gratis 1% interest in the club courtesy of Ralph.....got a nice check for $14 mil when Pegs bought Bflo.......

 

 

As Yolo says.........Overdorf is actually well respected for his contract work.......the truth nobody wants to hear is that the cap situation wasn't really that bad........it was a talented veteran team it wasn't going to be $80M over the cap in the offseason.

 

The one terrible contract was the Dareus deal..........and not because of the AAV.....to that point in his career he had been a monster DT against the run and the pass.   An All Pro by definition.    The issue was the lack of language to protect the team in the event of another suspension.    The Pegula's meddled in that deal to get it done and appease their buddy Todd France.   If there had been a GM in place to draw a line on value vs risk..... like Beane.......that kind of deal doesn't happen without a conduct clause.   

 

I've been critical of both Whaley and Beane for their individual failings but the lengths people go to trash Whaley and over-prop Beane are a bit ridiculous. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, MJS said:

I disagree. He looks very slow to me. I highly doubt he will even make the team.

 

I understand your point, however his 40 time is similar to some of the greatest WRs in history, including the GOAT.  So while he may not be a burner, his speed is more than capable to not only succeed in the NFL but also not be limited.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/993810

 

And he is in a situation where there is speed outside already on this team and he can work the sidelines and mid field as a big catch radius, move the chains, and Redzone target for Allen.  

 

Obviously he he has a lot to prove still, but I do think he is in the ideal spot for him to crack an NFL roster.  And he could compete more than people think for relevant playing time given his unique skill set compliments the speed guys so well.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Wait.........Logic said Whaley handed out bad contracts?

 

There was a significant disconnect between the GM and the contracts being done during the Nix/Whaley era.  

 

If your owners are the Rooney's or the Mara's that might work.............but when your owners have no idea how to run an NFL team they need a GM who can be involved in all aspects of personnel......including contracts.

 

Also, who were the bad contracts?  Dareus I assume.  Guess what? An all pro DT gets paid a lot of money.  The same people saying how bad the Dareus contract was are the same ones who would have cried if we let him walk for nothing. 

 

Some breaking news here: good players cost money.  I would take a motivated Dareus on his contract over Star on his.  

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Those 4” (?) don’t matter if you can’t separate. 

 

Yes they do, but like I just posted his speed is the same as Jerry Rice, and he’s bigger.  He could be the next Anquan Boldin, who also had a similar 40 time. They said he was too slow then set an NFL rookie reception record.

 

 

Edited by Alphadawg7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As Yolo says.........Overdorf is actually well respected for his contract work.......the truth nobody wants to hear is that the cap situation wasn't really that bad........it was a talented veteran team it wasn't going to be $80M over the cap in the offseason.

 

The one terrible contract was the Dareus deal..........and not because of the AAV.....to that point in his career he had been a monster DT against the run and the pass.   An All Pro by definition.    The issue was the lack of language to protect the team in the event of another suspension.    The Pegula's meddled in that deal to get it done and appease their buddy Todd France.   If there had been a GM in place to draw a line on value vs risk..... like Beane.......that kind of deal doesn't happen without a conduct clause.   

 

I've been critical of both Whaley and Beane for their individual failings but the lengths people go to trash Whaley and over-prop Beane are a bit ridiculous. 

I'm guilty of over-proping Beane because I don't thing he's failed seriously at anything yet. 

 

But you're right about Whaley.  And you're right about the Bills not being in cap trouble; all that happened was with a new coach and GM there was a new philosophy about how to build a culture and a team, and several guys with big contracts didn't fit the philosophy, so they had to go.   Whaley had a pretty clear vision, but he hadn't gotten the right coach or QB yet.   Beane had a different vision, which required a house cleaning.  

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yes they do, but like I just posted his speed is the same as Jerry Rice, and he’s bigger.  He could be the next Anquan Boldin, who also had a similar 40 time. They said he was too slow then set an NFL rookie reception record.

 

 

It is with great honor I pass my crown as biggest homer on the board to you.  Wear it well!

 

and I do respect your football knowledge.  I do think you are completely biased in your Bills’ takes but I do wish I had some of that optimism.  These years have taken a toll on me. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Those 4” (?) don’t matter if you can’t separate. 

 

 

That's the big question with Duke.........we will find out in camp/preseason.     In the CFL the CB's are smaller so they can be manhandled by big receivers.   He also didn't have to do a lot of complex route running on that big field.    In the NFL everybody has a 6'2" corner or two nowadays..........it won't be surprising in the least if he can't get open.    Most of the things he's going to need to do to make it in the NFL you just don't see on his CFL tape.      

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It is with great honor I pass my crown as biggest homer on the board to you.  Wear it well!

 

and I do respect your football knowledge.  I do think you are completely biased in your Bills’ takes but I do wish I had some of that optimism.  These years have taken a toll on me. ?

 

Well you clearly took my comments incorrectly.  I didn’t say he will be this or that, I was illustrating that other great WRs have succeeded with similar speed attributes.  And Duke looks and plays (in the CFL) as a clone of Boldin.  

 

I said in the previous post before this one you replied to that he has a lot to prove still.   The point is some people are saying he can’t play in the NFL because of his limited speed, I countered and said that’s not factually true given some of the greatest have succeeded with limited straight line speed too. 

 

That doesn’t make me a homer, that makes me someone who isnt going to dismiss a player based on something that isn’t accurate.  If he can run good routes and catch he has a real shot to make an NFL career.  

Edited by Alphadawg7
  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's the big question with Duke.........we will find out in camp/preseason.     In the CFL the CB's are smaller so they can be manhandled by big receivers.   He also didn't have to do a lot of complex route running on that big field.    In the NFL everybody has a 6'2" corner or two nowadays..........it won't be surprising in the least if he can't get open.    Most of the things he's going to need to do to make it in the NFL you just don't see on his CFL tape.      

Yeah, I don’t think fans realize how different the CFL is than the nfl, especially for receivers.  The bigger field and running vertical starts.  It was much difficult for a pass rusher like Cam Wake with CFL rules.  

 

Either way, it’s a no lose situation.  

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/6/2019 at 3:45 PM, IgotBILLStopay said:

Just closely watched these highlights. The guy is arguably a more complete receiver than anyone coming out of college this year. He has speed (why did he run only a 4.72 at the combine?), separation, elevation, ability to catch in traffic and is elusive enough to rack up YAC. Almost every throw he catches at its highest point (except for the one where he was unsighted and it hits his helmet - he still comes up with it). Enjoy!! Very Very underrated signing by the Bills - could have a shot at our #1 if he has really matured from his college days.

 

 

https://www.cover1.net/farhan-lalji-of-tsn-discusses-bills-signing-of-wr-duke-williams/

 

Report from a Vancouver reporter who watched him all year. 8-10 teams wanted him - but he chose Buffalo for the fit. Highlights fit with josh Allen due to catch radius and high pointing the catch.

 

Coaches from CFL lauded his humility, focus hard work etc.

He didn’t choose Buffalo because of the fit. He chose Buffalo because he has a shot to make the roster. Let’s be real...

  • Like (+1) 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you clearly took my comments incorrectly.  I didn’t say he will be this or that, I was illustrating that other great WRs have succeeded with similar speed attributes.  And Duke looks and plays (in the CFL) as a clone of Boldin.  

 

I said aid in the previous post before this one you replied to that he has a lot to prove still.   It the point is some people are saying he can’t play I t eh NFL because of his limited speed, I countered and said that’s not factually true given some of the greatest have succeeded with limited straight line speed too. 

 

That doesn’t make me a homer, that makes me someone who isnt going to dismiss a player based on something that isn’t accurate.  If he can run good routes and catch he has a real shot to make an NFL career.  

This is where I am on the guy.  As I said, I love how he catches the ball.  

 

I also love his determination.  The stories about him are that he's gotten his head screwed on straight, finally, and he is a ferocious worker.   He's going to do everything possible to make the team.  In other words, he's McDermott's kind of guy.   I think his hands and his determination make him a good prospect to make the team.  If he doesn't, then he just wasn't good enough.  

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you clearly took my comments incorrectly.  I didn’t say he will be this or that, I was illustrating that other great WRs have succeeded with similar speed attributes.  And Duke looks and plays (in the CFL) as a clone of Boldin.  

 

I said in the previous post before this one you replied to that he has a lot to prove still.   The point is some people are saying he can’t play in the NFL because of his limited speed, I countered and said that’s not factually true given some of the greatest have succeeded with limited straight line speed too. 

 

That doesn’t make me a homer, that makes me someone who isnt going to dismiss a player based on something that isn’t accurate.  If he can run good routes and catch he has a real shot to make an NFL career.  

Well let’s just hope he doesn’t slide into any porn “star’s” DMs like the last Duke Williams.

  • Haha (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...