Warren Sharp breaks down why the Rams lost the Super Bowl

[HappyDays]

 

The thread is still ongoing. The short version is that McVay's game plan on offense was terrible and Belichick is still the GOAT.

[Yobogoya!]

I asked this question of my friends before the game: are the Patriots that good, or is the rest of the league just that bad?

 

Seeing factoids like this push me further to believing the latter. Even ultra-smart, talented coaches like McVay just constantly do the wrong thing -- especially when they play the Pats. It's maddening. 

[JK Fan]

It was frustrating to watch.  Belichek is the master at modifying his defensive game plan to counter what the other teams are successful with.  On offense the Pats dink and dunk down the field.  

As fans we can see this so why don't the genius NFL coached adapt to stop this?

[BillyWhiteShows]

I feel it was both Goff and McVay.  They were both terrible 

[ctk232]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

To me, this will forever be the counter to anyone claiming the need is for young, offensive minded coaches, with modern offensive gameplans - and something I mentioned on another thread in regards to personal takeaways from the game. Above everything else that happened Sunday, the above quoted is all I saw.

 

While I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment of needing more unique/"modern" packages and looks to provide scheming issues league wide (as not every coach is Belly), the concept of having a set system can hamstring a team to the point of competitive disadvantage. This was not the best Cheatriots team to win it all, and I'd actually argue it wasn't by a long shot, but what they did have was a roster full of players who adhered to a system that constantly changed based upon their opponent. I get the base 4-3/3-4 systems in place throughout the league and the variations that can come of it, but the idea of scheming for your opponent week-in and week-out even if it means deviating from your core system seems to be an illogical exercise in futility at best. This average and aged Pats team beat out the two teams that were league darlings the entire year and two teams that half this board lamented we couldn't share more in common, but for all the modern packages and schemes employed, an extremely talented defensive mind and players who were trained to execute new systems every week, were able to effectively counter what stumped nearly the rest of the league. 

 

Before I sound too much like a sympathizer here, I absolutely can't stand Brady or Belly and especially can't stand those fairweather fans. And don't even get me started on how ESPN and the NFL have coddled them for the past 10 years. But I have to respect what Belly has accomplished in his career by remaining dominant in coaching and employing schemes that win, down to the detail, and the players that put it into action. So would we have seen a different outcome if McVay abandoned his guns and switched more to a 12 personnel set? Likely, and it likely would've been more interesting to watch, but he didn't, and his team suffered - for all he's accomplished and been lauded for as an offensive genius in the league, this is a pretty piss poor mistake to make at any age as an HC in the NFL, and in the most important game of the sport.

Edited February 5, 2019 by ctk232

[Gugny]

Here's my breakdown for why the Rams lost:

 

Because Bill Belichick and Tom Brady were on the opposing team.

[mjt328]

Bill Belichick is light-years ahead of every other coach in the NFL when it comes to preparation and strategy. 

The other coaches aren't even in the same league.  It's pathetic and (as someone who hates the Patriots) ridiculously frustrating to watch.

 

Belichick is literally the ONLY coach in the NFL willing to change his scheme weekly, in order to adjust to his opponent.  It's been this way for 15-20 years.

He knows what other teams do best, and he builds his gameplan around stopping it. 

 

Meanwhile, his opponent comes into the game expecting to have success just running the same scheme he does EVERY SINGLE WEEK.  Then the coach looks completely flabbergasted when New England is (shock!) running a different defense than what he saw in the film room.  Then he looks totally surprised when the soft-zone coverage scheme has somehow failed to stop Tom Brady.

 

I don't know if other coaches just aren't smart enough to make weekly adjustments?  Are they too lazy to put in same amount of work as Belichick?  Or are they just too arrogant to think New England's mid-level talent will be unable to slow them down? 

 

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

33 minutes ago, JK Fan said:

It was frustrating to watch.  Belichek is the master at modifying his defensive game plan to counter what the other teams are successful with.  On offense the Pats dink and dunk down the field.  

As fans we can see this so why don't the genius NFL coached adapt to stop this?

I think the Rams did a pretty good job of stopping the NE Offense.

[mjt328]

18 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

To me, this will forever be the counter to anyone claiming the need is for young, offensive minded coaches, with modern offensive gameplans - and something I mentioned on another thread in regards to personal takeaways from the game. Above everything else that happened Sunday, the above quoted is all I saw.

 

While I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment of needing more unique/"modern" packages and looks to provide scheming issues league wide (as not every coach is Belly), the concept of having a set system can hamstring a team to the point of competitive disadvantage. This was not the best Cheatriots team to win it all, and I'd actually argue it wasn't by a long shot, but what they did have was a roster full of players who adhered to a system that constantly changed based upon their opponent. I get the base 4-3/3-4 systems in place throughout the league and the variations that can come of it, but the idea of scheming for your opponent week-in and week-out even if it means deviating from your core system seems to be an illogical exercise in futility at best. This average and aged Pats team beat out the two teams that were league darlings the entire year and two teams that half this board lamented we couldn't share more in common, but for all the modern packages and schemes employed, an extremely talented defensive mind and players who were trained to execute new systems every week, were able to effectively counter what stumped nearly the rest of the league. 

 

Before I sound too much like a sympathizer here, I absolutely can't stand Brady or Belly and especially can't stand those fairweather fans. And don't even get me started on how ESPN and the NFL have coddled them for the past 10 years. But I have to respect what Belly has accomplished in his career by remaining dominant in coaching and employing schemes that win, down to the detail, and the players that put it into action. So would we have seen a different outcome if McVay abandoned his guns and switched more to a 12 personnel set? Likely, and it likely would've been more interesting to watch, but he didn't, and his team suffered - for all he's accomplished and been lauded for as an offensive genius in the league, this is a pretty piss poor mistake to make at any age as an HC in the NFL, and in the most important game of the sport.

 

If employed properly, a good gameplan trumps everything.  Even talent.

 

The problem is, most coaches in the NFL are average.  No creativity.  No innovation.  No forward thinking.

They usually branch off from a coaching tree (like Andy Reid or Bill Parcells) that started running a particular scheme and style decades ago, and has been passed down for years and years.  If they have right players and pieces, it works.  If they don't, they fail, get fired and become another retread bouncing from team to team.

 

Sean McVay is a small notch ahead of the pack, because he actually built a successful offensive scheme (as opposed to just copying someone else).  But on Sunday, he proved that his ability to prepare for an opponent and make adjustments is just as poor as everyone else.  Belichick figured out how to stop his bread-and-butter, and McVay looked like a deer in the headlights for 4 quarters.

 

I would say that Belichick just gave the NFL a blueprint for stopping the Rams offense next year.  But honestly, how many coaches are going to study what New England did and use it?  My guess is that most of the Rams opponents next year will just try playing the scheme they play every week.

 

[dpberr]

2 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

I asked this question of my friends before the game: are the Patriots that good, or is the rest of the league just that bad?

 

Seeing factoids like this push me further to believing the latter. Even ultra-smart, talented coaches like McVay just constantly do the wrong thing -- especially when they play the Pats. It's maddening. 

 

The rest of the league's teams are managed by men who are predictable, pathologically fear change and don't trust their players whatsoever to grasp what the Patriots do. The NFL is filed with PROCESS guys.  

 

PROCESS is predictable.

 

How do you beat the Patriots?  Have one member of your film unit obsess and study them full time, especially if you're in the AFC.

 

You throw out every single play you ever ran this year and create brand new plays they've never seen before for their games.  

 

At the half time of the game against the Patriots, you throw out the first half plans, and have new ones just for the second half.  

 

The key to beating the Patriots is not letting them get tape on you and that requires a level of adaption these NFL coaches just can't handle.  

 

That's why the Patriots own the NFL.  New England preys on the predictability of everyone else.   

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by dpberr

[Yobogoya!]

16 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

The rest of the league's teams are managed by men who are predictable, pathologically fear change and don't trust their players whatsoever to grasp what the Patriots do. The NFL is filed with PROCESS guys.  

 

PROCESS is predictable.

 

How do you beat the Patriots?  Have one member of your film unit obsess and study them full time, especially if you're in the AFC.

 

You throw out every single play you ever ran this year and create brand new plays they've never seen before for their games.  

 

At the half time of the game against the Patriots, you throw out the first half plans, and have new ones just for the second half.  

 

The key to beating the Patriots is not letting them get tape on you and that requires a level of adaption these NFL coaches just can't handle.  

 

That's why the Patriots own the NFL.  New England preys on the predictability of everyone else.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep that about sums it up. 

 

I feel like the Bills should bring on fan consultants specifically for Patriots games. When guys on message boards get it but the "pros" don't, it's just pathetic. 

 

It doesn't help that these cocky teams still treat the Patriots just like "any other team." They aren't. The Eagles showed how you beat them in the Super Bowl -- you treat them like the best team you've ever played and you throw everything plus the kitchen sink at them. 

[row_33]

36 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

The rest of the league's teams are managed by men who are predictable, pathologically fear change and don't trust their players whatsoever to grasp what the Patriots do. The NFL is filed with PROCESS guys.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you mean they have a "system" they bring into their first training camp and refuse to adjust to the real players they have, like basically ruin Mario Williams because he doesn't fit into that braying pantload's "system"?

 

they also are very lax on scouting in-depth on rookies and first-time producers, giving them a free pass their first season in the spotlight.  this leads to a "sophomore slump" when opponents FINALLY develop a book on how to handle the rising star....

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

26 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

The rest of the league's teams are managed by men who are predictable, pathologically fear change and don't trust their players whatsoever to grasp what the Patriots do. The NFL is filed with PROCESS guys.  

 

PROCESS is predictable.

 

How do you beat the Patriots?  Have one member of your film unit obsess and study them full time, especially if you're in the AFC.

 

You throw out every single play you ever ran this year and create brand new plays they've never seen before for their games.  

 

At the half time of the game against the Patriots, you throw out the first half plans, and have new ones just for the second half.  

 

The key to beating the Patriots is not letting them get tape on you and that requires a level of adaption these NFL coaches just can't handle.  

 

That's why the Patriots own the NFL.  New England preys on the predictability of everyone else.   

 

 

 

 

 

This is what scares me about McDermott and his conservative, predictable style. In some ways the "close" game in Buffalo against them this year worries me more than the one in NE where we just got obliterated in the trenches. While the score was close for a lot of that game...it was never in doubt. The Pats were in control all the way. If we ever do take the next step, I have my doubts that this coaching staff will be able to come up with innovative and adaptive schemes to compete with the big boys. We're almost going to have to have overwhelming talent that can withstand that to go far. 

[row_33]

30 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

This is what scares me about McDermott and his conservative, predictable style. In some ways the "close" game in Buffalo against them this year worries me more than the one in NE where we just got obliterated in the trenches. While the score was close for a lot of that game...it was never in doubt. The Pats were in control all the way. If we ever do take the next step, I have my doubts that this coaching staff will be able to come up with innovative and adaptive schemes to compete with the big boys. We're almost going to have to have overwhelming talent that can withstand that to go far. 

 

it's okay for a coach to have his "system" and build around it from ground zero, McD is fine because we don't have expectations of greatness. The last great coach for the Bills was Knox and none are probably coming in the next 40 years.

 

Rex came in with a decent team and destroyed it by week 2 after boasting about world domination.

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

it's okay for a coach to have his "system" and build around it from ground zero, McD is fine because we don't have expectations of greatness. The last great coach for the Bills was Knox and none are probably coming in the next 40 years.

 

Rex came in with a decent team and destroyed it by week 2 after boasting about world domination.

 

 

 

I think that's largely why people seem to be so on board with him. 

[ALLEN1QB]

They lost because they didn't score enough points.

[row_33]

23 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I think that's largely why people seem to be so on board with him. 

 

i'm jaded and cynical as all get out, and I'm on board with McD

 

build us an honest contender by year 3 of Josh....

 

 

[P51]

Really sounds like McVay needs to read the Art of War, or at least chapters I, III, VI, VIII, XI and XIII for good measure...

 

All battles are won before they are fought... The Super Bowl it appears to have been lost before and during the fight. 

[Maybe Someday]

59 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Bill Belichick is light-years ahead of every other coach in the NFL when it comes to preparation and strategy. 

The other coaches aren't even in the same league.  It's pathetic and (as someone who hates the Patriots) ridiculously frustrating to watch.

 

Belichick is literally the ONLY coach in the NFL willing to change his scheme weekly, in order to adjust to his opponent.  It's been this way for 15-20 years.

He knows what other teams do best, and he builds his gameplan around stopping it. 

 

Meanwhile, his opponent comes into the game expecting to have success just running the same scheme he does EVERY SINGLE WEEK.  Then the coach looks completely flabbergasted when New England is (shock!) running a different defense than what he saw in the film room.  Then he looks totally surprised when the soft-zone coverage scheme has somehow failed to stop Tom Brady.

 

I don't know if other coaches just aren't smart enough to make weekly adjustments?  Are they too lazy to put in same amount of work as Belichick?  Or are they just too arrogant to think New England's mid-level talent will be unable to slow them down? 

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

If employed properly, a good gameplan trumps everything.  Even talent.

 

The problem is, most coaches in the NFL are average.  No creativity.  No innovation.  No forward thinking.

They usually branch off from a coaching tree (like Andy Reid or Bill Parcells) that started running a particular scheme and style decades ago, and has been passed down for years and years.  If they have right players and pieces, it works.  If they don't, they fail, get fired and become another retread bouncing from team to team.

 

Sean McVay is a small notch ahead of the pack, because he actually built a successful offensive scheme (as opposed to just copying someone else).  But on Sunday, he proved that his ability to prepare for an opponent and make adjustments is just as poor as everyone else.  Belichick figured out how to stop his bread-and-butter, and McVay looked like a deer in the headlights for 4 quarters.

 

I would say that Belichick just gave the NFL a blueprint for stopping the Rams offense next year.  But honestly, how many coaches are going to study what New England did and use it?  My guess is that most of the Rams opponents next year will just try playing the scheme they play every week.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said and hate to admit it but BB* is on a level of his own. 

 

I do think that in many cases it's not the other coaches that aren't smart enough to adjust, it's the players.  A coach can come up with the best game plan ever but if the players aren't capable of executing it properly for an entire game, they're better off sticking with what they do well.  If you want to play for the Pats*, you have to be able to learn a whole new game plan/scheme each week and be able to execute it without overly thinking on game day.  I'll bet that more than half of the players in the league are not capable of doing that.  So many players wash out because they can't learn 1 scheme over a full season much less from week to week.  BB* puts an emphasis on finding smart football players who love the game over pure athletes.  IMO, that's a big part of why NE* has been so successful with so many players that a lot of people would consider lesser talents.

 

Also, the credit for coming up with the blueprint to stop the Rams offense should be given to the Bears not BB.  He incorporated much of what the Bears did to stop the Rams when they played in week 14 or 15.  Like you said, BBs* preparation is better than anyone else's.  He will find what worked for another team and incorporate that into the game plan.  IMO, the genius of BB isn't that he comes up with all this new and exciting stuff, it's that he's seen it all, remembers it all, and that has given him the abilty to adjust to it all.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

I asked this question of my friends before the game: are the Patriots that good, or is the rest of the league just that bad?

 

Seeing factoids like this push me further to believing the latter. Even ultra-smart, talented coaches like McVay just constantly do the wrong thing -- especially when they play the Pats. It's maddening. 

 

Even if the rams did something else Belly would have figured that out and then everyone would be saying why didn't the rams do what they are good at.