BigDingus Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) When talking about the GOAT conversation in North American sports on PTI, they discussed Brady & now comparing him to Jordan. Then they had this exchange that made me think Kornheiser is an idiot, watch the full exchange here - Kornheiser: "You know, I'm not saying he's better, I'm saying they are shoulder to shoulder in the annals of history. Wilbon: "Yeah, and they were shoulder to shoulder already." Kornheiser: "I don't know that, I don't know that.....If they had lost this to go 5 & 4, I don't know. 6 is magic." Uh what? What makes six championships in the NFL more "magic" than five? Five had NEVER been done before by any QB, so you're telling me not only did Brady matching Joe Montana & Terry Bradshaw in the era of Free Agency not qualify, but being the first & likely only QB to ever win 5 Super Bowls, as well as having played in 8 up until that point not convince you? He had to win six...IN THE NFL...to be adequately comparable to Jordan? Why? Jordan is a legend, yes. But even if he is the GOAT, 6 rings isn't the pinnacle of his sport and isn't what cemented him as the GOAT, so why does the number 6 for championships translate to a magic number? Kareem had 6, several more have 7-10, and Bill Russell has freaking 11, so why isn't 11 the "magic number?" I mean it's just as arbitrary as 6 when applied to the NFL, so I think it's pretty stupid to say Brady's 5 before last night wasn't enough to already say he's shoulder to shoulder. Jim Kelly was a first ballot HOFer losing 4. Marino was as well losing his only 1. Favre went 1-1. Elway & Manning combined went 4-5! Brady having himself gone 5-3 up through last night, or even 5-4 had they lost, in a league where only 1 QB has ever even just PLAYED in Super Bowls let alone WIN 5, you're telling me Brady still had to win another one to qualify? Why didn't Jordan have to win 11 to qualify? Because he was so dominant anyway in the regular season & post season. In one generation, Brady & Belichick have brought the Pats from 0 Super Bowls to tying the Steelers for most all time with 6. Other historic franchises like the Packers, Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, etc. have all been surpassed by just 1 generation of QB+HC. That's insane. Tom Brady will hit #2 all time in passing yards if he plays another full season next year (he's #4 now, only 1,400+ yards from #2 behind Brees), only needs 22 TD's to pass Peyton Manning for #1 all time (though he's 3 TD's behind Brees right now), is the winningest postseason QB of all time, has the most Superbowl MVP's of all time, has 3 regular season MVPs, and countless other records that shouldn't NEED a 6th Super Bowl win to be "shoulder to shoulder" with Jordan in NA sports. I hate the guy and can't wait until he finally friggin retires. But I know I'll never see something like this in my lifetime ever again and have to respect that. In the NFL, doing what he's done puts him shoulder to shoulder with Jordan easily, and that was before winning a 6th ring. People are willing to argue Lebron is shoulder to shoulder with Jordan, and even better than Jordan, and he only has 3 rings out of 9 trips! So how the hell is 6 the magic number for FOOTBALL, but 3 is ok for basketball? I dunno why I felt the need to rant about this, but man that argument was so stupid. I'll be THRILLED if the Bills have a QB that leads us to one Superbowl win....I can only imagine how it would feel to go 9 times and win 6. Edited February 5, 2019 by BigDingus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I don't think Brady and Jordan should be mentioned in the same category. Jordan won 6 championships in 6 years playing. He was the top of the game for those 6 years. Brady only had about 3 years where he was the top of the game and one of those years his team (18-0 year) they lost the championship. Brady might have been the best player on the team for most of those years but definitely not the best player in the league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It's not a great comparison, anyway, since the NBA and NFL are about as different as two leagues can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) He isnt Shoulder to shoulder with Jordan. He isnt even the greatest in his own sport. Now Belichick to Phil Jackson is a great discussion and not so easy to make a call. Edited February 5, 2019 by formerlyofCtown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 One team relies on 5 to 8 or so players. The other relies on so, so many more. It is a lot easier to be dominant in basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Gugny said: It's not a great comparison, anyway, since the NBA and NFL are about as different as two leagues can get. ....and typical Tony Baloney.....hard to believe he was on MNF............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Brady is about as athletic as Fat Albert, it would be like comparing Jack Nicklaus to Jordan. Stupid comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 7 hours ago, BigDingus said: I hate the guy and can't wait until he finally friggin retires. Because someone has a difference of opinion with you you hate? It's great to be always right I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: He isnt Shoulder to shoulder with Jordan. He isnt even the greatest in his own sport. Now Belichick to Phil Jackson is a great discussion and not so easy to make a call. I don't even think you can go there with Bill and Phil. Jackson had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq... All Hall of Fame. Belicheck had Brady and..................? As much as I hate him Bill is the superior of the two......IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 talking about Jordan now is as pointless as when oldsters talked about Bob Cousy during the Magic/Bird era.... 2 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: One team relies on 5 to 8 or so players. The other relies on so, so many more. It is a lot easier to be dominant in basketball. Jordan won with 6 basically by himself and 2/3 of a star in Pippen, wished they would have manned up during the Magic/Bird Era, or at least beaten that Detroit team with half the talent of prior champs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Jordan, Gretzky, Brady, Woods, Ruth... You can argue if they're the GOAT, but it doesn't matter. In the end, they're just THE NAME everyone knows. The GNOAT. Soft G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said: I don't even think you can go there with Bill and Phil. Jackson had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq... All Hall of Fame. Belicheck had Brady and..................? As much as I hate him Bill is the superior of the two......IMO of course. Gronk, Moss Welker, Bruschi... He had plenti. But I dont necessary disagree. The only player Belichick has had thats the GOAT as his position was Gronk. Maybe Viniteri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It is SO much more difficult, as a superstar, to dominate a sport where 11 men are on the field compared to 5. I would argue the easiest sport to create a dynasty would be the NBA. In no other sport can your star play so often, with so few opponents on the court or field. One dominate player can run a dynasty in the NBA relatively easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 If you get to the Super Bowl 9 times with the same coach chances are play for an elite organization. Belichick even found a way to get to 11 wins with Matt Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 53 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Jordan, Gretzky, Brady, Woods, Ruth... You can argue if they're the GOAT, but it doesn't matter. In the end, they're just THE NAME everyone knows. The GNOAT. Soft G. LaGNOATski? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said: I don't think Brady and Jordan should be mentioned in the same category. Jordan won 6 championships in 6 years playing. He was the top of the game for those 6 years. Brady only had about 3 years where he was the top of the game and one of those years his team (18-0 year) they lost the championship. Brady might have been the best player on the team for most of those years but definitely not the best player in the league. This is not quite true. Jordan came back the year before his second three peat during the middle of the season and they lost in the playoffs with him that year. Granted, he wasn't quite himself yet, but it was technically 6 in 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I don't think there's any real merit to it, but it's something that talking heads will bring up. The number of titles in football is vastly different than the number of titles in basketball as has been pointed out. I do think it's something people will naturally discuss as MJ is widely considered the greatest athlete of all time(debatable I'm aware). The fact that they both have six titles is naturally going to get attention. This is pretty much what they do on PTI. Meh. Edited February 5, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: One team relies on 5 to 8 or so players. The other relies on so, so many more. It is a lot easier to be dominant in basketball. This. Numerous players throughout NBA history have won 5 or more titles. Many of the actual super star players too, not just role players who jumped around from winning team to winning team like Robert Horry. In the NFL you have two players Tom Brady and Charles Haley. Haley obviously falling more under the category of the Robert Horry type. Winning 5+ titles in the NFL or playing in 6+ super bowls is a far greater achievement. You just aren't supposed to do that in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: This. Numerous players throughout NBA history have won 5 or more titles. Many of the actual super star players too, not just role players who jumped around from winning team to winning team like Robert Horry. In the NFL you have two players Tom Brady and Charles Haley. Haley obviously falling more under the category of the Robert Horry type. Winning 5+ titles in the NFL or playing in 6+ super bowls is a far greater achievement. You just aren't supposed to do that in the NFL. Charles was a devastatingly important part of most of those 5 titles, maybe his 5th he wasn't in top form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, row_33 said: Charles was a devastatingly important part of most of those 5 titles, maybe his 5th he wasn't in top form. Yeah saying he was Horry is slighting him too much. But he's not at the Duncan, Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Russell level either. Somewhere between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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