Goff was actually worse than you think...

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, eball said:

 

Call me a homer but based upon Allen being a "late bloomer" and only finally getting good coaching I think he has the highest ceiling of them all.  And he has the attitude and work ethic to go along with that stupendous physical talent.

 

Maybe, but Mayfield seems to have a far better understanding of the game and position right now.  As far as finally getting good coaching, that remains to be seen.

 

Physically different for sure, but as you know, at this position, that hasn't mattered much in the NFL.

[Bing Bong]

17 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

.....Jesus, wait 'til Josh makes it to HIS first Big Dance with McDermott and comes up Goff/McVay like against The Master......TBD meltdown time.........

we'd be praising the performance if JA has that game.. crucifying Cooks and the OL. Goff's clearly shown he has loads of talent, accuracy, and throwing power. So has JA even when he's played poorly for several quarters. Goff's just played longer, had the chance JA hasn't for more success, and blew it in the SB.

 

Bad game. Great quarterback.. really bad game in the SB though.

15 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I think McVay did a huge disservice to himself and the team.  The Rams were best going uptempo and keeping teams off balanced.  Getting to the line seeing what a defense was going to do and then adjusting before the headset shuts off.  Then like a college team using hand signals to help get everything set.

 

In the Super Bowl - McVay to try and thwart BB kept the Rams in the huddle until the head set would shut off to prevent BB from adjusting, but that limited the adjustments he could make and Goff could not do it himself.  That team is all about what McVay can see and he purposefully took himself out to try and limit BB and it cost the Rams.

Nice. That's been the big story I've heard.. The Rams basically did what they haven't done all year to throw something different at the Patriots. The result: a team that averages 33 ppg does something way different and scores 3.

[row_33]

13 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Brutal Oline- Blythe was a siv

 

The Pats D-line brought the heat those 3 playoff games, not sure where that came from, sure didn't show it for the prior 100 or so games.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The scheme was atrocious, the playcalling was atrocious and the adjustments were atrocious. 

 

Goff missed some throws. He didn't play well. But Sean McVay was worse than you think. A lot, lot worse. I watched the whole game back today. I still put this almost entirely on McVay. 

I watched the replay on the NFL network last night. Goff was really, really bad -- worse than I remember watching it the first time around. Other things I noticed: Hightower and Gilmore had phenomenal games. I had forgotten that Gilmore had a truly impressive forced fumble on CJ Anderson that, if it had bounced another way, would have been recovered by Hightower in the red zone. 

 

Romo was terrific. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by dave mcbride

[eball]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe, but Mayfield seems to have a far better understanding of the game and position right now.  As far as finally getting good coaching, that remains to be seen.

 

Physically different for sure, but as you know, at this position, that hasn't mattered much in the NFL.

 

Not surprising given how long he has played the position "seriously" compared to Allen.  It seems to me as though guys like Mayfield and Mahomes have about a 2-3 year head start on Josh -- but he's catching up.  I don't think there's any question he is currently receiving the best coaching of his life.

 

The physical tools are a factor when plays break down, or when a guy has to make a ridiculous throw under pressure.  A QB like Goff has to operate in the offense.  Mahomes and Mayfield also have that "playmaking" ability you look for.

[row_33]

i have read the Pats went with the unusual move of zone D for the Rams game and that wasn't on the genius Rams prep list?

 

 

I have no clue about the veracity of that assertion.... 

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Not surprising given how long he has played the position "seriously" compared to Allen.  It seems to me as though guys like Mayfield and Mahomes have about a 2-3 year head start on Josh -- but he's catching up.  I don't think there's any question he is currently receiving the best coaching of his life.

 

The physical tools are a factor when plays break down, or when a guy has to make a ridiculous throw under pressure.  A QB like Goff has to operate in the offense.  Mahomes and Mayfield also have that "playmaking" ability you look for.

I think Goff is a pretty good but limited QB. He's an excellent, precise thrower, but he's just not a good improviser. He's robo-QB, basically. With regard to the Pats, the guys who give them the most trouble are the big-armed improvisers (Mahomes, Roethlisberger, Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton) with a love for throwing it deep when they break contain plus the super-smart QBs with a lot of years under their belts (Peyton Manning). I'd put Foles in there too because he plays the game more like a point guard rather than a classic system QB like Goff/Wentz. Young system QBs get eaten alive by Belichick, and Goff is probably the most extreme example of that type.  Doesn't mean he's a bad player, however. Allen strikes me as an improv guy, which is good for the Bills. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by dave mcbride

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I watched the replay on the NFL network last night. Goff was really, really bad -- worse than I remember watching it the first time around. Other things I noticed: Hightower and Gilmore had phenomenal games. I had forgotten that Gilmore had a truly impressive forced fumble on CJ Anderson that, if it had bounced another way, would have been recovered by Hightower in the red zone. 

 

Romo was terrific. 

Goff isn’t good when Gurley isn’t rolling over people. I don’t think McVay is either. The game plan was horrible. Van Noy and Hightower are both limited players who are better at coming forward than they are at moving laterally. They never took advantage of that.

 

Bad gameplan, late with adjustments. They lost the game, Pats just showed up. Goff has a passing rating of 70 something for the past two months. No surprise, most of that time Gurley was out. 

 

Andy Reid gets a lot of flack for his playoff meltdowns but he was the only HC that gave the Pats a fair effort. If only he had Wade Phillips. 

[row_33]

15 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Meh. A saints struggle all season was getting out too late. I’d say drew and Sean are as elite a pair as npretty much anyone. No one way to do it, but just like anything it can be a pro or con in your matchup. 

 

You do do have to be aware at the line though.

 

the elites are 100% aware at the line

 

Goff isn't experienced enough to get to the line with 20 on the clock, or wasn't given the chance, hopefully next year

 

 

10 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Goff isn’t good when Gurley isn’t rolling over people. I don’t think McVay is either. The game plan was horrible. Van Noy and Hightower are both limited players who are better at coming forward than they are at moving laterally. They never took advantage of that.

 

Bad gameplan, late with adjustments. They lost the game, Pats just showed up. Goff has a passing rating of 70 something for the past two months. No surprise, most of that time Gurley was out. 

 

Andy Reid gets a lot of flack for his playoff meltdowns but he was the only HC that gave the Pats a fair effort. If only he had Wade Phillips. 

 

congrats to Andy for taking HFA and giving a good game to the Pats

 

one of his biggest accomplishments in crunch time ever

 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Goff isn’t good when Gurley isn’t rolling over people. I don’t think McVay is either. The game plan was horrible. Van Noy and Hightower are both limited players who are better at coming forward than they are at moving laterally. They never took advantage of that.

 

Bad gameplan, late with adjustments. They lost the game, Pats just showed up. Goff has a passing rating of 70 something for the past two months. No surprise, most of that time Gurley was out. 

 

Andy Reid gets a lot of flack for his playoff meltdowns but he was the only HC that gave the Pats a fair effort. If only he had Wade Phillips. 

Oh, I disagree. I think he's a good player even though he has his flaws. He is still a young player, after all. He is quite accurate, has a good arm, and throws a very nice ball. Bear in mind that his late-season stats were skewed by one horrible game against the Bears (20-44; 4 INTs; no TDs). In the final two games, he put up huge numbers. He played fine against a good Dallas D and also did fairly well against NO; the one INT he threw was actually a good pass and not his fault (Gurley blew it). He was overmatched by Belichick, however.

[billsfan_34]

27 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

The Pats D-line brought the heat those 3 playoff games, not sure where that came from, sure didn't show it for the prior 100 or so games.

 

 

I couldnt tell ya! They turned Blythe into a turnstyle

[CommonCents]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Oh, I disagree. I think he's a good player even though he has his flaws. He is still a young player, after all. He is quite accurate, has a good arm, and throws a very nice ball. Bear in mind that his late-season stats were skewed by one horrible game against the Bears (20-44; 4 INTs; no TDs). In the final two games, he put up huge numbers. He played fine against a good Dallas D and also did fairly well against NO; the one INT he threw was actually a good pass and not his fault (Gurley blew it). He was overmatched by Belichick, however.

Same stat line that he had against the Lions. I suppose they overmatched him too? Only difference I saw was that Gurley was still healthy in the DT game. 

 

I watched every game they have played for the past two seasons. He is an above average QB when things are going his way. Clean pocket etc. When he is getting hit he turns into a pumpkin, he can’t move well enough to avoid it and he doesn’t make a decision quick enough to protect himself while still making a play.

 

Gurley is the engine of that offense, shame he wasn’t himself because I believe we would have seen a different result. 

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Same stat line that he had against the Lions. I suppose they overmatched him too? Only difference I saw was that Gurley was still healthy in the DT game. 

 

I watched every game they have played for the past two seasons. He is an above average QB when things are going his way. Clean pocket etc. When he is getting hit he turns into a pumpkin, he can’t move well enough to avoid it and he doesn’t make a decision quick enough to protect himself while still making a play.

 

Gurley is the engine of that offense, shame he wasn’t himself because I believe we would have seen a different result. 

The Lions' defensive game plan was the one that Belichick followed. Patricia had a great game plan (quarters zone coverage), and Albert Breer correctly predicted that Belichick would use it: https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/29/super-bowl-liii-patriots-key-victory.

 

Like I said, he has flaws. He's not perfect, and his mobility isn't great. Neither are his improv skills as of yet, although that may come with time. But he's still a good player. 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by dave mcbride

[CommonCents]

30 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Lions' defensive game plan was the one that Belichick followed. Patricia had a great game plan (quarters zone coverage), and Albert Breer correctly predicted that Belichick would use it: https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/29/super-bowl-liii-patriots-key-victory.

 

Like I said, he has flaws. He's not perfect, and his mobility isn't great. Neither are his improv skills as of yet, although that may come with time. But he's still a good player. 

 

I hope he improves but as of now he is a QB who doesn’t make those around him any better. I don’t consider that good, but I respect your opinion. 

 

I love Breer, that’s what blows my mind about anyone acting surprised that Goff looked bad Sunday. He didn’t have much of a chance. I really expected McVay to adjust his offense and use the TEs heavily. Press Cooks, bracket

Woods, that had to have been as expected for him. Disappointing game plan. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, CommonCents said:

 

Andy Reid gets a lot of flack for his playoff meltdowns but he was the only HC that gave the Pats a fair effort. If only he had Wade Phillips. 

 

Well that's the point of him getting flack....he melts down.  He has a winnable game and chokes it up with bad clock, TO, play call management.

 

McVay was never in this game.

[TigerJ]

I agree.  Goff is in a very QB friendly offense, but he personally doesn't seem to have a lot of leadership, ability to read defenses or improvise.  Obviously Bill Belichik figured out his limitations and designed a defensive game plan to take advantage.