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Buffalo03

Would the Patriots still have been this dominant in a different division?

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I was thinking today, what if the Pats didn't have 6 games a year against the Bills, Dolphins and Jets? Let's say they switched places with the Browns and were in the AFC North with the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals. Are they still as good today? I think it's possible that they may have gone to a few Super Bowls but not 9. I personally think 6 guaranteed wins every year against the AFC East or 5-1 or 4-2 at the very worst has had a lot to do with their dominance. If they played 6 games a year against the Steelers, Bengals and Ravens, I honestly think they lose an extra 2 to 3 wins a year just from being in a much tougher division. I know them being in the AFC East is no fault of their own. However, I don't see the dominance they have had the last 20 years outside of the East

Edited by Buffalo03

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They did not win their Super Bowls vs AFCE.  Maybe a few more regular season losses but still dominance. 

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Well considering our division isn’t who they are beating in playoffs and Super Bowls the answer is obviously a resounding YES

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1 minute ago, Just Joshin' said:

They did not win their Super Bowls vs AFCE.  Maybe a few more regular season losses but still dominance. 

Those extra regular season losses lead to less number 1 and number 2 seeds every year in the playoffs though

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1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

I was thinking today, what if the Pats didn't have 6 games a year against the Bills, Dolphins and Jets? Let's say they switched places with the Browns and were in the AFC North with the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals. Are they still as good today? I think it's possible that they may have gone to a few Super Bowls but I personally think 6 guaranteed wins every year against the AFC East or 5-1 or 4-2 at the very worst has had a lot to do with their dominance. If they played 6 games a year against the Steelers, Bengals and Ravens, I honestly think they lose an extra 2 to 3 wins a year just from being in a much tougher division. I know them being in the AFC East is no fault of their own. However, I don't see the dominance they have had the last 20 years outside of the East

Here are some facts for you to consider:  Since about 2002, the Patriots have a BETTER record against the rest of the league than against the AFC east teams.   Put another way, the Bills, Jets and Dolphins beat the Pats MORE than the rest of the league.  And because the Pats win the AFCE every year, it means they play some of the best teams in the league in the regular season.  

 

What the Pats have done is about the Pats, not about the AFCE.  

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I don’t think the division matters much.

They have proven in the playoffs on the road or at home they can win. It’s almost over thank god 

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1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Here are some facts for you to consider:  Since about 2002, the Patriots have a BETTER record against the rest of the league than against the AFC east teams.   Put another way, the Bills, Jets and Dolphins beat the Pats MORE than the rest of the league.  And because the Pats win the AFCE every year, it means they play some of the best teams in the league in the regular season.  

 

What the Pats have done is about the Pats, not about the AFCE.  

They only play 2 opponents per year that are different than what the rest of the division plays. Every team in the division plays one whole other division and one whole NFC division. 

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5 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

They did not win their Super Bowls vs AFCE.  Maybe a few more regular season losses but still dominance. 

When they want to they beat everyone. Belichick can out scheme every coach in the league blindfolded.  Do they get breaks from the NFL? Yes, but they would still dominate. They're just better.  Brady is the Witch and Bill is the Wizard. And until they retire we'll always be chasing.

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4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t think the division matters much.

They have proven in the playoffs on the road or at home they can win. It’s almost over thank god 

So you don't think 6 games a year against the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals would have made any difference? Those have been much better teams than the Jets, Bills and Dolphins. I don't think 9 Super Bowl apparences is possible in that division

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Yes they would be. The AFCE is good for about 1 extra win every other year. Pats just won on the road in KC. 

 

Here is how the numbers read 

 

Brady vs:

AFCE 81-21=.794

NFL 207-62=.769

NFL sans AFCE games 126-41 = .754

 

 

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They don’t beat the AFCE in the playoffs or the SB so yes..

17 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

So you don't think 6 games a year against the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals would have made any difference?

 

Brady is something like 8-1 against the Steelers.

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whb 810 in kansas city which has a show called the program from 10am til 2 and is phenominal. They did research on this there winning percentage is highest agaist afc west..the nfc east...then nfc north ...then afc they are all above .600 except the nfc west at 575 i believe. So  to answer  the question its an obvious yes and if you listen you will quickly be reminded how bad wgr compared to other stations.

Edited by CardinalScotts

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There are divisions in which they would have been slightly more, and slightly less, dominant. With probably little change in the end results which matter. Like, same number of SB wins, maybe 8-10 fewer regular season wins over 20 years.

Edited by arcane

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40 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Here are some facts for you to consider:  Since about 2002, the Patriots have a BETTER record against the rest of the league than against the AFC east teams.   Put another way, the Bills, Jets and Dolphins beat the Pats MORE than the rest of the league.  And because the Pats win the AFCE every year, it means they play some of the best teams in the league in the regular season.  

 

What the Pats have done is about the Pats, not about the AFCE.  

Pats fans repeat this a lot in response to the weak division criticism.

 

It’s only partially valid, imo.  They are all-time great, no doubt.  And they would have won a lot regardless.

 

But their reign DID coincide with a fairly unprecedented run of complete incompetence from their division rivals.  And that helped.  Even this season- just a slightly tougher division probably means no bye for them, and a much less likely shot at #6.

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4 minutes ago, Success said:

Pats fans repeat this a lot in response to the weak division criticism.

 

It’s only partially valid, imo.  They are all-time great, no doubt.  And they would have won a lot regardless.

 

But their reign DID coincide with a fairly unprecedented run of complete incompetence from their division rivals.  And that helped.  Even this season- just a slightly tougher division probably means no bye for them, and a much less likely shot at #6.

 

They beat the no. 1 seed on the road this year....

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Semantics. Their run over the course of 20 years against the rest of the league in the playoffs removes doubt that their postseason success is bound up in the slacking of their AFCE rivals. Can't stand them with every fibre of my football being, and am ready to turn the tables on them. Allen has never had a full off-season as the annointed #1 here, so I'm expecting big things from him in 2019.  

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9 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

They beat the no. 1 seed on the road this year....

Dee Ford is the reason for that

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This same argument was brought up repeatedly during the Bills' dominance of the AFC in the early '90s.  I don't think it was relevant then or now.

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1 hour ago, Just Joshin' said:

They did not win their Super Bowls vs AFCE.  Maybe a few more regular season losses but still dominance. 

 

The AFC rarely has forced its best teams to go full out more than a few times a season

 

the NFC is far more competitive among its top teams the last 50 or so years

 

The Pats were probably able to rise to any challenge that was added, the AFCE has been a total joke for them

 

 

 

 

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It’s an interesting question. I’ll say no because I think that they would have encountered more resistance (and more road playoff games) if they would have been trudging through the AFC North. They would still be great (and all-time great) I’m just not sure it would be 6 Super Bowl wins and 9 appearances great.

Edited by Kirby Jackson
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7 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

This same argument was brought up repeatedly during the Bills' dominance of the AFC in the early '90s.  I don't think it was relevant then or now.

The Dolphins were good back then to. So we at least played against another team twice a year that was a great team. The Pats have not had to worry about one great Dolphins, Bills or Jets team at all in the 20 years they have been dominant

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just hope they don't go out and find even a useful WR to take a bit of the pressure off

 

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It'll end one day. Not sure when but it will. Storied franchises eventually have to reboot. SF GB Dallas. . . . .  . We need a little more patience. AND I hope that Marcia and the Evil one ride into to the sunset on the heels of a playoff loss and not a seventh title. So don't retire, don't leave on top, don't leave on your own terms. This way when they try for one more and don't succeed their final memory will be one of failure. OR at least that's what I hope will happen. And wouldn't that be sweet. 

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