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Is DT Gerald McCoy done in Tampa?


Tipster19

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1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

So you weren't criticizing Poyer, you were making a convoluted point about Star when you said Poyer struggled to tackle RBs? Alright, my bad I guess.

 

 

I didn't say Poyer struggled to tackle RB's either...........he was simply given a massive workload in the run game due to poor work in the front 7.    

 

Definitely your bad.......100%.

 

But show me all the value in that free agent class smartazz...............it's ok to jump on me for ONE player you mistakenly think I am criticizing but you take objection when I point out that a very poor FA class was very poor?

 

Mmmkay.

 

That's why I don't take YOU seriously, Cunningham.:beer:

 

 

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11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

The run defense was AWFUL for a 3 game stretch after Dareus was cut, so the improvement isn't nearly as impressive as it's made out to be

 

This is classic cherry picking. Sure if we remove the 3 worst games our run defense had in 2017, suddenly the improvement doesn't look as good. Are we allowed to do the same thing for 2018? Can we eliminate the games where Edmunds looked way in over his head?

 

Slice it however you want. We went from 29th in total rush yards to 16th, 23rd in rush YPA to 9th, and 30th in rush defense DVOA to 14th. What caused that improvement in your opinion? You think a 3 game stretch in a 16 game season had that much of an effect? I would argue that Edmunds in his rookie season was significantly worse against the run than Preston Brown. And nothing else on our defense changed except the addition of Star. Seems to me like he did his job. It doesn't mean he's elite. He holds gaps and keeps the opponent's rush in check. It was not an awful signing by any stretch of the imagination.

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6 minutes ago, Logic said:

Imagine rating the impact of a 1T like Star Lotulelei based on number of tackles.

Sheesh.

PFF does no such thing. He graded out well in his early years without putting up bigtime stats(although he did make a COUPLE of plays a season.) He graded out as below average in 2018.

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6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

you a fan of bringing Dawkins inside? I see folks point.

 But i would rather leave him at tackle. add a FA guard and center if viable. Draft Guard and Tackles both if BPa allows

 

 

Yeah I would love Dawkins at LG.

 

He's going to be a value problem at LT...........he's not likely to be good enough to be outright worth that $15M+ deal when he hits FA..........and that's why he'd probably hit UFA if they don't move him to LG now when they have the opportunity when he is coming off a down year.

 

I think he could be an All Pro LG.........that ain't a cheap proposition in FA but the TOP of that market is $13M right now so probably $25M less on a 5 year deal..........and if you decide to pass you just have to replace a guard, not a LT.

 

That means they have to find a LT but you can justify drafting a LT in the first two rounds because of the positional value......... or you can try to jump on Trent Brown in FA.

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1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is classic cherry picking. Sure if we remove the 3 worst games our run defense had in 2017, suddenly the improvement doesn't look as good. Are we allowed to do the same thing for 2018? Can we eliminate the games where Edmunds looked way in over his head?

 

Slice it however you want. We went from 29th in total rush yards to 16th, 23rd in rush YPA to 9th, and 30th in rush defense DVOA to 14th. What caused that improvement in your opinion? You think a 3 game stretch in a 16 game season had that much of an effect? I would argue that Edmunds in his rookie season was significantly worse against the run than Preston Brown. And nothing else on our defense changed except the addition of Star. Seems to me like he did his job. It doesn't mean he's elite. He holds gaps and keeps the opponent's rush in check. It was not an awful signing by any stretch of the imagination.

How can I argue such a point? Maybe everyone was on the same page as it was McDermott's second year. Johnson at slot corner was a terrific tackler. Milano grew by leaps and bounds. If we're gonna judge an entire unit based on one guy, we got GASHED up and down without Milano against the Pats. I don't think Star does much of anything, but it's damn near impossible to debate the merits of a guy who isn't necessarily supposed to make plays. You would think he could make a FEW. 

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4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

PFF does no such thing. He graded out well in his early years without putting up bigtime stats(although he did make a COUPLE of plays a season.) He graded out as below average in 2018.

 

Even on his 2017 production he was viewed as grossly overpaid.

 

But then last year the guy tumbled to significant career low points of 17 tackles with ZERO sacks and ZERO QB hits..............he literally fell off the map entirely as a playmaker of any kind.

 

They signed him out of desperation after the wheels came off of the run D when they traded Dareus in 17'.

 

But they were desperate for safety help when they signed Hyde and Poyer too...........I mean it's not an excuse.........they really need to be able to find a serviceable 2 down run stuffer for cheaper than $10M..........I mean, it's a guy who might spend certain games on the bench all day in the modern NFL.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Even on his 2017 production he was viewed as grossly overpaid.

 

But then last year the guy tumbled to significant career low points of 17 tackles with ZERO sacks and ZERO QB hits..............he literally fell off the map entirely as a playmaker of any kind.

 

 


I'll say it again: Imagine rating Star Lotulelei on the basis of his sacks and QB hits. 

It's like rating a WR on the amount of pancake blocks he gets. 

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11 minutes ago, Seoul_panther said:

As a Panther fan, I can tell you that the fanbase went off Star towards the end of his time in Carolina. It was thought by many that we upgraded with Dontari Poe.

 

This season our run D took a significant backward step. 

 

Right and no one is saying Star alone caused your run defense to get a lot worse and ours to get a lot better. But some Bills fans think he was a terrible signing and the stats don't back that up at all.

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3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As I always say..........get the guys at high $ positions in the early rounds of the draft..........don't draft your run stuffers or RB's or safeties or guards/centers early........you can always overpay for them in FA and come out fine so long as you have your expensive positions covered with home grown talent.

 

I like this kind of thinking, I never looked at it this way, very interesting.

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41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Right and no one is saying Star alone caused your run defense to get a lot worse and ours to get a lot better. But some Bills fans think he was a terrible signing and the stats don't back that up at all.

 

 

Oh by the way.......neither run defense was particularly good.  

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Not really, no.

 

We know you love Teef dude.

 

I'm sure Howie Mandell loved George Carlin too...........but c'mon man.............you get nothing to hit after Teef's been up...........you are batting below the Mendoza-line on those.

 

Stick with them free-range gifs.    That's your rubber glove.✌️

 

I've been telling you to stay off those Mike's Hard Lemonade's Baldo....

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10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Oh by the way.......neither run defense was particularly good.  

 

 

 

 

The Carolina rush defense went from 3rd in total yards to 15th, 10th in YPA to 25th, and 5th in DVOA to 18th. So no, neither run defense was "particularly good" but one improved significantly and the other got significantly worse. Of course Star alone didn't cause that big swing, but he played a role.

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12 hours ago, Logic said:


I'll say it again: Imagine rating Star Lotulelei on the basis of his sacks and QB hits. 

It's like rating a WR on the amount of pancake blocks he gets. 

A pancake blocking specialist receiver would be AWESOME. Can we target a guy in the draft?

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1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Carolina rush defense went from 3rd in total yards to 15th, 10th in YPA to 25th, and 5th in DVOA to 18th. So no, neither run defense was "particularly good" but one improved significantly and the other got significantly worse. Of course Star alone didn't cause that big swing, but he played a role.


Shhhhh. Actual facts have no place in arguments with BADOL!

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6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Carolina rush defense went from 3rd in total yards to 15th, 10th in YPA to 25th, and 5th in DVOA to 18th. So no, neither run defense was "particularly good" but one improved significantly and the other got significantly worse. Of course Star alone didn't cause that big swing, but he played a role.

 

I tend to think they'd have had a huge dropoff even with Star.    Lotta' moving parts in that Carolina collapse last season and having the increasingly diminished version of Star Lotulelei that the Bills got wasn't going to change any of that.

 

Lotulelei was an improvement over the practice squad rotation that they were using after they traded Dareus in 2017.    That period skewed their seasonal stats greatly.   But the 2018 Bills run defense still wasn't a lot better.    Only improved by a MEAGER .1 ypc and opponents liked the run matchup enough that the Bills were one of the more run-on teams in the NFL(about 4 more rushers per game than Carolina saw).   

 

I could go on.......trust me.........but it's not worth it.........we are talking about two middling run defenses and a greatly overpaid run stuffing DT.

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On 1/29/2019 at 10:27 AM, IgotBILLStopay said:

He is the prototypical 4-3 DT and will be a good fit for the Bills.

TB cant wait to get rid of him since he is a misfit in a 3-4 alongside Vita Vea. 

So I would like TB to sweeten the pot by offering us a 3rd rounder for us to take him on and relieve them of 13 million cap drain. They are severely cap constrained. Will be like the Osweiler trade to the Browns.

Why would they give us a talented player and a pick when there are plenty of teams that will give them picks?  Osweiler was a bad contract for a bad player.

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On 1/30/2019 at 3:39 PM, Logic said:


Are you serious with this garbage? Beane overpaid for McCarron? REALLY?! And Bodine, too? Absolute nonsense. Furthermore, he later TRADED McCarron and Newhouse to other teams for draft picks. What a waste their signings were ?

As for sending the Browns a 7th round pick for a former 1st round WR when the Bills were desperate for WR help and speed on the outside...are you REALLY gonna fault him for taking that swing?

Seriously, you're trying too hard with the Beane hate. 

And then you have the nerve to end with the two sentences you ended with? If you're gonna be a big richard, take your own advice and "try to get some facts right at least".

 

wait a minute. Regardless of how anyone judges Beane, giving Coleman 3 million dollars guaranteed when the Bills had very little cap money left and then letting him go a week or two later before preseason even started was just a really stupid move. He has made good moves but to try and spin that one as anything but a big mistake is just wrong. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 7:19 AM, ScottLaw said:

Which track record is this? 

 

He oveerpaid for Star.

Do you people Research anything?  He is paid market value for what he does.

On 1/30/2019 at 9:24 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Even on his 2017 production he was viewed as grossly overpaid.

 

But then last year the guy tumbled to significant career low points of 17 tackles with ZERO sacks and ZERO QB hits..............he literally fell off the map entirely as a playmaker of any kind.

 

They signed him out of desperation after the wheels came off of the run D when they traded Dareus in 17'.

 

But they were desperate for safety help when they signed Hyde and Poyer too...........I mean it's not an excuse.........they really need to be able to find a serviceable 2 down run stuffer for cheaper than $10M..........I mean, it's a guy who might spend certain games on the bench all day in the modern NFL.

 

 

Who views him as grossly overpaid.  

All I see is a bunch of media morans and washed up players.  Who just go on there opinion and not data.  Any market is dictated by the supply and in the case of the workforce you add in the prevailing wage.

Star is not a passrusher and isnt suppose to be.  Dontari Poe is in a similar D and look at the stats and Salary.

Edited by formerlyofCtown
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