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New York State abortion bill now allows babies, At any point of pregnancy, to be aborted


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7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

No it is Not.

 

if a health-care practitioner deems it necessary for the mother’s life or health — the exception that was defined in Roe companion case Doe v. Bolton as “all factors — physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age — relevant to the wellbeing of the patient.” In other words, abortion will be available to women essentially on demand up to the point of birth.

 

 

No.

 

Your are being undeniably naive 

 

I have 4 decades of Hospital experience

2

 

Yes, as they relate to health (but certainly not financial, that was where my annoyance came from, that is ridiculous).

 

Oh and really, you have seen a late-term abortion determination made based on the financial health of a woman (let's not pull the experience card on this issue, when it really doesn't get to the point at all.  I too have experience working with doctors, and specifically as to their medical judgments)?  I am naive for thinking that is ridiculous, and even if it happened, would be beyond rare and an anomaly...

 

 

Sorry, but this law requires a medical determination that it is necessary for the woman's life (or a lack of viability of the fetus).  There is nothing inherently ridiculous about that.  If you think there are doctors who will allow late term abortions based on financial concerns, then that's on you.  In my opinion, that's near a conspiracy level.  

Edited by Crayola64
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1 hour ago, BigMcD said:

Wow, that didn’t take long for you to go off on your evil dems crusade!! 

 

Prove me wrong. 

 

Does Planned Parenthood receive US taxpayer money?

 

Does that money not allow them to perform abortions?

 

Do they not also charge to perform abortions?

 

Do they not also fund Dem campaigns?

 

Did Kamala Harris not collude with Planned Parenthood to raid the house of David Daleiden? Did that not lead to PP buying her election to the Senate?

 

C'mon. Prove me wrong. Support your argument. If I'm really just on a crusade, even a freaking Canadian could prove me wrong.

 

We'll wait.

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1 hour ago, bilzfancy said:

Doesn't PP get a lot of their funding from taxpayers?

Yes.  About 41% comes from federal grants and reinbursements (medicaid, title x), but that money can't be used towards abortions.  They get the rest from patients private insurance companies and private donations. 

 

The abortion rate in the US is the lowest since Roe v. Wade and teen pregnancy is at the lowest level ever recorded.  A lot of that has do to access to contraceptives and increased sex education for young people which planned parenthood provides.  The argument is since PP still uses 3% of their budget on abortion services, should it receive federal funding even if that funding isn't being used for abortions?  Just given these statistics, I can't justify defunding it at a federal level as it saves taxpayers money in the long run.

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5 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

 

Sorry, but this law requires a medical determination that it is necessary for the woman's life (or a lack of viability of the fetus).  There is nothing inherently ridiculous about that.  If you think there are doctors who will allow late term abortions based on financial concerns, then that's on you.  In my opinion, that's near a conspiracy level.  

 

You know what they say about opinions.

 

"Oh but doctor, my mental health won't allow me to care for this baby!"

 

" Well, fair enough, Susie! Let me go get my forceps."

 

Quote

"Person," when referring to the victim of  a  homicide,  means  a
human being who has been born and is alive.

 

 

THIS is problematic. So, a genetically unique individual in his or her mother's womb is not REALLY a person.

 

Really.

 

To whom does this "reproductive justice" apply, exactly? Certainly not the baby. The mother? Not so sure, either.

 

 

Edited by Joe in Winslow
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6 hours ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Prove me wrong. 

 

Does Planned Parenthood receive US taxpayer money?

 

Does that money not allow them to perform abortions?

 

Do they not also charge to perform abortions?

 

Do they not also fund Dem campaigns?

 

Did Kamala Harris not collude with Planned Parenthood to raid the house of David Daleiden? Did that not lead to PP buying her election to the Senate?

 

C'mon. Prove me wrong. Support your argument. If I'm really just on a crusade, even a freaking Canadian could prove me wrong.

 

We'll wait.

Links? Make sure you prove how the abortion money goes straight into dems campaigns and prove the undoubtedly part as well. 

 

How many millions are we talking about? How about 2018 for example? Surely we must be talking NRA type money for you to be this outraged? 

 

Oh yeah and ***** you from Canada. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

@Gugnyclass will begin in a few hours. Read up so you can account for your belief this is a good thing and understand this is part of the American genocide of the lower class and minorities.

 

Hey, less Mericans is a good thing! 

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18 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

@Gugnyclass will begin in a few hours. Read up so you can account for your belief this is a good thing and understand this is part of the American genocide of the lower class and minorities.

 

 

I've not said once how I feel about this new law.  You can run to PPP and Breitbart to find out what to say in the shoutbox, but they won't be able to tell you my stance on this, or any, topic.

 

You've gotten schooled by multiple people over the last few weeks in the shoutbox.  It's been entertaining and I look forward to the next episode.

 

I'll give you a preview:

 

  • You'll go into the shoutbox, in which the discussion is not about politics at that time.
  • You'll say something about either don or Hillary Clinton.
  • A controversial topic will come up.
  • You'll speak very confidently, as if you have an ounce of a clue as to what you're talking about.
  • Someone in the shoutbox actually WILL know about that topic and call you out on it.
  • You'll respond with names, or reminding us who lives in the white house.
  • Then you'll disappear for about an hour.   We like to call this, "Boyst's homework time," which means you're googling and going to PPP trying to "educate yourself."
  • Armed with half of the facts, you'll re-enter the shoutbox.
  • You'll get schooled again, but (this is my favorite part) you'll claim, "victory," and leave.

 

Even though I know this is how it will play out (it always does), it's still very fun to watch go down.

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57 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've not said once how I feel about this new law.  You can run to PPP and Breitbart to find out what to say in the shoutbox, but they won't be able to tell you my stance on this, or any, topic.

 

You've gotten schooled by multiple people over the last few weeks in the shoutbox.  It's been entertaining and I look forward to the next episode.

 

I'll give you a preview:

 

  • You'll go into the shoutbox, in which the discussion is not about politics at that time.
  • You'll say something about either don or Hillary Clinton.
  • A controversial topic will come up.
  • You'll speak very confidently, as if you have an ounce of a clue as to what you're talking about.
  • Someone in the shoutbox actually WILL know about that topic and call you out on it.
  • You'll respond with names, or reminding us who lives in the white house.
  • Then you'll disappear for about an hour.   We like to call this, "Boyst's homework time," which means you're googling and going to PPP trying to "educate yourself."
  • Armed with half of the facts, you'll re-enter the shoutbox.
  • You'll get schooled again, but (this is my favorite part) you'll claim, "victory," and leave.

 

Even though I know this is how it will play out (it always does), it's still very fun to watch go down.

Bullet points make it fun.

 

I don't go to Breitbart. In fact, the first time I've know myself to go there was yesterday when news.google had an article I thought was interesting and lead me there.  

 

I of course approach this with confidence - like I do anything. And the shoutbox is full of idiots who really just spout off at the mouth with no intellectual premise or anything beyond emotions. Shady, Mike, flaz, many are of this ilk. Their low denominator conversations are of rhetoric that is #orangemanbad and NPC filters that do not actually have resonance beyond the already obvious #orangemanbad and saying mean and stupid things.  It's immature.

 

No one has made an effort to actually pose an argument. Hopeful attempted and was as intellectually dishonest as it can be with strawmen and red herring arguments that were absurd.

 

Whoever "we" is can say all they want as I deal with responsibilities that take me away from my mobile to resolve issues at work, go about my life, and do things which better myself to be the better person than you and the shoutbox denizens of low merit.

 

And, you'd have a point that I Google things but, as I am sure youre thinking after I read this: I don't cite *****. In fact - I tell others to and no one does.

 

And my leaving "drop the mic" ***** is just to get under your skin and others and it works.  It's usually when I leave to go home from work, I'm at the gym for a few hours, banging my girlfriend, or going to sleep... Or any number of interests which disengage me from the internets.

 

Now, I'll drop the mic and ask you to state your case on why I was wrong about this horrible law your ***** state passed to kill people.

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37 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh boy, where was all this outrage when children were (still are) being warehoused at the border? 

 

Or when Trump tried to send real live, already born, asylum seekers back to death in the country they ran away from? 

 

 

Alternate Facts.    Get with the MAGA program.  

 

Can I add  - 

Homeless Americans (some former military) are dying of hypothermia and drug related issues on the streets.

 

$5 billion will go a long way to help saving some lives. 

13 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

1) And the shoutbox is full of idiots who really just spout off at the mouth with no intellectual premise or anything beyond emotions. Shady, Mike, flaz, many are of this ilk.

 

2) And, you'd have a point that I Google things but, as I am sure youre thinking after I read this: I don't cite *****. In fact - I tell others to and no one does.

1) The Alpha male has spoken. 

All bow down to his intelligence. 

Speaking of intelligence in the Shout Box....   Why would anyone openly admit in the shout box that they are a Felon?  

 

I often find that people that have to brag that they are superior are often inferior.  JMO.  

 

2)  You claimed the shutdown doesn't effect the local and State gov't.  I provided you with a story that proved otherwise.  I never got a response.

 

Why don't you state your point and not get into insulting other for their thoughts and ideals.  Life would be so much simpler.  

 

Edited by ShadyBillsFan
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23 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Alternate Facts.    Get with the MAGA program.  

 

Can I add  - 

Homeless Americans (some former military) are dying of hypothermia and drug related issues on the streets.

 

$5 billion will go a long way to help saving some lives. 

1) The Alpha male has spoken. 

All bow down to his intelligence. 

Speaking of intelligence in the Shout Box....   Why would anyone openly admit in the shout box that they are a Felon?  

 

I often find that people that have to brag that they are superior are often inferior.  JMO.  

 

2)  You claimed the shutdown doesn't effect the local and State gov't.  I provided you with a story that proved otherwise.  I never got a response.

 

Why don't you state your point and not get into insulting other for their thoughts and ideals.  Life would be so much simpler.  

 

$5b is what you're worried about when it's literally nothing in the budget. That so much more is wasted and this is your focus because... Wait for it... #orangemanbad.

 

And because it's common knowledge. And it's laughable. There are PM's about it frequently among the gossip groups here. It's a sign of immaturity.  I don't judge myself or care about the viewpoints of others who wish to judge me, more importantly.  Why should I?  I'm better than that ... And them.  Guggies is one of those I'm better than.

 

And, trust me, the schtick I'm superior is just for ***** and giggles. 

 

Anyway, your feelings are what you focus on... So to your fact statement

 

It will make many agencies hurt.  I don't remember your article. Meaning I never saw it or it was a moot point of information that isn't anything more than propoganda.  If we are relying on federal workers to get the job done and they're not I say we go private. Let them get real world jobs.  Let them not take advantage of tax payer waste and I bet that $5b would come back quick.

 

I don't insult anyone. I provide colorful verbage in response to inadequate commotion.  You, several others lack any objectional basis to actually provide insight because you despise Trump and are emboldened in your beliefs. It's sad. And when the shoutbox is littered with "waawaa Trump did bad things" all day it's only fun and fair to poke back.  Guess y'all can't take it??‍♂️

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9 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

 

No no no.  You are conflating the two scenarios.

 

First, a late-term abortion can be done for if "there is an absence of fetal viability," as determined by a "practitioner's reasonable and good faith professional judgment."  Two, a late-term abortion can be done if it is to protect the patient's life or health, as determined by a "practitioner's reasonable and good faith professional judgment."

 

 

So a practitioner must determine, in the professional judgment, if one of those scenarios apply.  And of course it is subjective, nor would health ever be defined in this context.  We let doctors make these determinations, we do not let legislators define what these two scenarios are.  

 

If you are contesting that a late-term abortion can never be done to protect the health of the patient, then you are suggesting a medical practitioner could never find scenario 2 applicable.  But, no offense, I am going to trust a doctor's judgment on that, not yours...?  

 

 

The suggestion that a healthy fetus can be killed minutes before birth, at the whim of the woman, is false.  

 

I can’t think of a single situation in which a fetus would have to be murdered before being delivered to protect a woman’s physical health. 

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9 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

Here is the actual text:

 

 

 

 

So I only skimmed this and I don't get the outrage.  It strips criminal punishments for abortion-related stuff, okay that's fine.  That's not what you all are chirping about.

 

But now it adds late-term abortions based on the viability of the fetus or the health of the woman.  Where are you getting it that they can now kill a baby right before delivery for no reason...?  Now an abortion can be done late term, but under only two scenarios.  Unless I am missing something, which please tell me!

 

 

EDIT:  I get that if you are pro-life you would be upset at this, but there isn't anything ghoulish or radical about this law.  

The moral outrage is all theatre. The right wing doesn't give a snap about fetuses or anything. They are just latching onto this issue (which I get a lot of other people truly care about) to try and get some moral high ground which they totally lack on almost every other issue. The are pro-life but anti-healthcare, they are pro-life but want to take away asylum seekers rights, they are pro-life but want to put the squeeze on children getting public assistance. Donald Trump is now pro-life, I mean give me a break 

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