LSHMEAB Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Doc said: My bad. I read "but neither is any good IMO" as being about Rosen and Allen. I guess you meant (Rosen and) Trubisky, which I find surprising. Trubisky is a poor man's Josh Allen; same short game issues without the crazy mobility and a good arm that doesn't compare to Allen's. Don't like Trubisky's decision making or accuracy. He's in a great system so of course he's gonna look decent. Rosen had TERRIBLE protection but I saw zero zip on his passes and of course zero mobility. He's slow as dirt and doesn't appear to move around all that well in the pocket ala a Tom Brady. Just my opinion. Edited January 25, 2019 by LSHMEAB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, WideNine said: Agree. That muscle-memory is way important to Allen because he can launch it from bad platforms and often still get it near where it needs to go so there is probably a tendency to fall back on his arm strength too often. He also needs to keep working on those the pre-snap defensive reads to get a better idea where he can go with the quicker throws, when teams play off and take away the deeper stuff. I think that will come along gradually, it will just take more time behind center and in the film room. With the better mechanics and knowing where to go, the timing and placement get better, not that they were horrible to begin with. Those swing, flair, or wheel routes to the right could be ugly at times when he did not reset his feet or seemed to over-think the mechanics - yet he threw a perfect swing pass to Kyle on the right side at the end of the season, with a lot of pressure to not screw up Kyle's one career chance to catch an NFL pass. I like the kid's moxy, and I believe he's progressing. Now if he just had the support of a real running game, wasn't dodging and scrambling away from pressure .9 seconds after the snap, and his receivers held onto the ball we could maybe stack up some wins next year Good to see the kid is working at his craft. This is a good observation WideNine and let me provide another: remember against the LA Chargers when Allen threw that horrible wheel route pass to Demarco who had to make a circus catch to grab it? He was wide open and people rightly criticized Allen for that pass and have used it as an example of his "inaccuracy". Now fast forward to after Allen returned from injury and was playing the Dolphins in Miami. Remember how he had perfect touch on the same pass to Demarco on the wheel route that went for 30+ yards. That's what I like about the kid - he learns from his mistakes and improves on what he doesn't do so well. Edited January 25, 2019 by CincyBillsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, mattynh said: Completion percentage and accuracy are correlated. You talk about them like they are independend variables. Can you determine accuracy by watching a QB throw a ball to a wooden block moved around by a track of some sort that can't catch? Sure, accuracy and completion percentage are related to each other. That still doesn't mean completion percentage tells you how accurate a QB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: Yes. We've heard all the "reasons" for Allen's low completion percentage in JUCO, Wyoming, and the Bills. It's only nonsense if you don't believe it's an important statistic. Until he's more proficient as a passer, it's going to be an issue. And coincidentally, Allen will only be a proficient passer if his WRs and TEs actually catch the passes Allen throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 2:07 AM, Buddo said: It can easily be argued that Frank is a marginal pro/college QB. (I'm not about to, but you get my drift). Reich owns a significant piece of history in both the college and pro game. (I think you know of what I speak.) As a coach he has lifted nearly every offense he's touched. -Where has Jordan Palmer coached? If he's such a guru, -why isn't he coaching for any of the NFL's 32 teams? I submit that right now, at this moment, Josh Allen is a better pro QB than Jordan Palmer EVER was... If I was Beane, I'd keep Palmer the hell away from my 1st round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 3:10 PM, Herc11 said: So how was Belicheks pro football career as a player? Oh that's right he never played pro football cause he wasn't any good in college. Being a good player has nothing to do with coaching ability. What team does Palmer coach for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, #34fan said: What team does Palmer coach for? If he was a coach for a team how could he possibly be helping Allen right now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: If he was a coach for a team how could he possibly be helping Allen right now? I'm not so sure he's helping Allen at all... Guess we'll see in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, #34fan said: What team does Palmer coach for? Define what a coach is in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, mattynh said: So Allen is perfect and has nothing to work on...we just need to get him "weapons" Childish. No one is saying that. What we are saying is that accuracy and completion percentage are not related. You claim they're correlated, what's the correlation coefficient? There are a whole host of variables that affect completion percentage that have nothing to do with accuracy. Plus what you seem to be confusing is correlation with causation. Causation would mean there is a direct link to inaccuracy with an incompletion. For individual passes that can be true. As it can be also true that it is because a received dropped a pass, or because the defense made a good play, or because the QB had to throw the ball away. Allen has work to do like most young QBs. He needs to improve his touch on throws. Needs to continue learning to read defenses. But as the OPs exhaustive analysis of each of his games and throws showed, his accuracy is overblown and similar to the other young QBs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just now, mattynh said: They are correlated, I cant provide you common sense. No, you make an outlandish statement and then can't back it up. I work with statistics every day. You want to claim correlation, show the data. Sow us how strongly they're correlated. Your issue is you don't understand what you're talking about. Read up on the difference between correlation and causation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, mattynh said: We will have to just agree to disagree. You're agreeing to disagree that if a QB throws a perfect pass to a WR and he drops it, that means the QB is inaccurate? If so, it's best you don't continue discussing things further. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just now, Doc said: You're agreeing to disagree that if a QB throws a perfect pass to a WR and he drops it, that means the QB is inaccurate? If so, it's best you don't continue discussing things further. Amazing , isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Amazing , isn't it? Yup. That and the "so he's perfect..." comment show he's not willing to engage in honest discourse. So I won't bother further. Edited January 25, 2019 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, mattynh said: Move on son. Stop making yourself look like an idiot. You provide the data stats man. If you understood the difference between correlation and causation you would not be asking for a coefficient. You made the claim that they are correlated. You make the claim, then provide the data to back up your claim. And the reason I brought up correlation vs. causation is because you are clueless what correlation actually means. Correlation describes the size and direction (i.e. positive or negative) of a relationship between two variables. Correlation DOES NOT equal causation. A classic example is that there is a correlation between high school test scores and the amount of ice cream that students eat in a given year. Pretty strong positive correlation, with a correlation coefficient of around 0.6. In your view of stats, you would claim that eating ice cream increased kid's test scores. But you would be wrong. Because eating ice cream does not CAUSe higher test scores. What it really means is they have parents that have more disposable income to take kid's out for ice cream, and they also have more disposable income for things like getting kids help in test preparation. Correlation has no real bearing on cause. You claim there is a correlation between accuracy and completion percentage. First, you don't define how you measure accuracy. If you're doing so based on completion percentage then you're basically comparing the same set of data against itself. Which would be really dumb. And then you make the fatal mistake so many make. Even if there is a positive correlation, that has nothing to do with cause. The causes of lowered completion percentage involves many variables, the accuracy of a given pass to be sure, but also defensive aspects, play of the receivers, and many others. But you just go ahead and call those who have a much more comprehensive understanding of things statistical idiots if it will make you feel better. All it does it make you look silly. 3 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: And coincidentally, Allen will only be a proficient passer if his WRs and TEs actually catch the passes Allen throws Betcha anything the NUMBER 1 thing Palmer and Allen are working on is throwing more catchable balls, ie touch in the short game. That's not to say the receivers didn't suck, but he's gotta take some zip off the gimmies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 They should point Allen to the "RIGHT" and have him throw there all summer. : ) 5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Betcha anything the NUMBER 1 thing Palmer and Allen are working on is throwing more catchable balls, ie touch in the short game. That's not to say the receivers didn't suck, but he's gotta take some zip off the gimmies. Would be nice, but couldn't that make him even MORE inaccurate?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Betcha anything the NUMBER 1 thing Palmer and Allen are working on is throwing more catchable balls, ie touch in the short game. That's not to say the receivers didn't suck, but he's gotta take some zip off the gimmies. I don't know how we would bet on something like that, but I'd bet against it. I'm sure the #1 thing they're working on is consistency in his mechanics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: I don't know how we would bet on something like that, but I'd bet against it. I'm sure the #1 thing they're working on is consistency in his mechanics. That's the baseline. Of course they're working on consistency in his mechanics. But the issue besides the obvious mechanical consistency is touch on short & intermediate throws. Nice line regarding such a bet! Good stuff. I'm not sure how such a bet would work either.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrider Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: That's the baseline. Of course they're working on consistency in his mechanics. But the issue besides the obvious mechanical consistency is touch on short & intermediate throws. Nice line regarding such a bet! Good stuff. I'm not sure how such a bet would work either.? I think Allen's touch on short throws is fine. I think he needs to work on his timing for the quick slant passes, but not sure if thats something he would be doing with Palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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