Problems with making PI reviewable...

[foreboding]

Quote

On 1/22/2019 at 5:23 PM, skibum said:

... They will make football unwatchable. Bad calls are part of the game, and there's already too much video review slowing things down. Harrumph.

 

No way, I completely disagree. Bad PI ruins games, not the pace of the game. HD, the world can see it, fast bandwidth, it is time to figure this out and at least get the most egregious calls right.

[T master]

Why can't it be enforced that call cost the Saints a super bowl appearance that they may have won so in one bad call history for a lot of players was changed !

 

McVay  & others on the Rams are talking about how the face mask on Goff was missed that could have gave them more downs & possibly they could have added more points BUT if he is talking about the same call i think he is that was one of those accidental getting a finger inside the guys face mask & he immediately let go.

 

Now if he would have yanked Goffs head around & it was as blatant a missed call as the one the officials missed on the Saints then i would say okay you got a case but something has to be done to assure that this situation doesn't happen again !

 

It's total BS & every one knows that it was a wrong call even the most uninformed fan knew that they blew that call & it is only right that the owner of the Saints has purchased a number of billboards around ATL saying that the Saints got robbed because they did !!

 

If it was any other time in the season although it would & should be unacceptable it may be a little different but when a teams Super Bowl appearance is on the line like this it's a totally different story !! 

 

I have even heard that some gambling places have reimbursed people that had bets on the game because they didn't feel it was right to have those that bet on the Saints to win lose like that, so if those guys are willing to give back money that they could have gained that's saying something must have really screwed up !! 

 

Sorry but i'm calling BS & it in some way needs to be changed !!

Edited January 24, 2019 by T master

[freeagentqb]

Thought the refs decided to just let them play.  I don't recall many stoppages of play for ticky tack fouls,.  Don't recall any holding calls. 

[HeHateMe]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Maybe you only do it in playoff games, and each team only gets one review, just to keep it from becoming a zoo.

 

This might be the best idea yet..  Regular season games have tons of missed calls, some bigger than others but you play the next week and usually they even out over the season..  In the playoffs, 1 missed call is huge and can end your season.  

 

Each team can challenge any call or non call 1 time in the playoff game - to cover anything from missed PI to an incorrect roughing the passer etc.  They keep their regular challenges of was it a fumble, catch, etc.

 

Wouldn't drastically change much aside from a few minutes for possibly an extra challenge.  

[Logic]

3 hours ago, freeagentqb said:

I think that scenario would drive the coaches crazy.  OK when do I throw this one-time flag?  If Reid had thrown it earlier in the game, then what?  So I think they would probably keep it in their pocket until the last few minutes of a close game and probably never even use it.  I've seen so many replays of  passes where the db and receiver are hand fighting the whole time.  More often than not receivers are giving a push on the db when running an out pattern.  Like so many have said, pi (off or def) could be called on probably 90 percent of passes.  I've watched football for over 50 years and played for 10 and still have no real answers for handling PI.  Don't think you can review every one.

What you described (coaches being overly judicious in deciding whether or not to use their one flag) seems fine to me. It ensures that this no measure won't be overused or slow the game down on a regular basis. As you say, the coach -- knowing he only has ONE opportunity -- is likely only going to through the flag in a crucial, game-swinging instance. To me, to at least have that ONE opportunity is a better option than what coaches have now, which is no recourse at all.

[frostbitmic]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It actually started two November’s ago and the whining, protesting, resisting, pouting, and nonstop tantrums are still going strong today.

Bitching and whining are very often two different things ... one justified, one not.

 

What happened in New Orleans is justified bitching.

[BigDingus]

On 1/22/2019 at 4:23 PM, skibum said:

... They will make football unwatchable. Bad calls are part of the game, and there's already too much video review slowing things down. Harrumph.

 

Out of all calls that SHOULD be reviewable, Pass Interference is the ONE that needs to be.

It has the potential for the greatest changes in the game, and more times than I can count has screwed the Bills over in obscene ways. Unless of course they want to go to the college rules of PI, then sure, don't make it reviewable. 

[Nextmanup]

Get rid of all of it.  Instant replay and challenges still don't always get it right, and your'e never going to design a system that gets everything right all the time.  So just get rid of it all.

 

Blown calls, bad calls, frustrating calls that help 1 team and hurt another were always part of sports and that's OK.  It adds to the interest, it doesn't detract from it.

 

Get rid of it all and make everyone live with the call on the field at the time in the heat of battle.

That is an acceptable standard to live by...even if it is wrong now and then.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Get rid of all of it.  Instant replay and challenges still don't always get it right, and your'e never going to design a system that gets everything right all the time.  So just get rid of it all.

 

Blown calls, bad calls, frustrating calls that help 1 team and hurt another were always part of sports and that's OK.  It adds to the interest, it doesn't detract from it.

 

Get rid of it all and make everyone live with the call on the field at the time in the heat of battle.

That is an acceptable standard to live by...even if it is wrong now and then.

 

 

I enjoy many of your posts, but this is the worst idea I've ever heard. We should be striving to eliminate non player/coach human error, not going backwards.

 

The players should determine the outcome, not some official. Get rid umpires in baseball and go to the K zone while we're on this subject.

[blacklabel]

I don't think making PI something that can be reviewed is a long-term solution. Like most of the game, there are so many variables involved and at the end of each play, it's up to the officials to make (or not) the call. And those calls at times can be subjective (although we know officiating is supposed to be an unbiased, objective look at things) but human error plays a big part and they screw up. The problem is, they've been screwing up a lot more than usual it seems. And the game already suffers enough in delays for penalty conversations that seemingly have to happen with nearly every frickin' flag. Even simple procedural calls like a false start. Those zebra idiots huddle up for five minutes. What the hell they talking about? "Wow Bob, your uniform is top notch today." "Thanks Ed, my mom ironed it for me. I'm here unsupervised too!" "Hey do you guys use TurboTax?" There are times I truly believe that the refs want so badly to be a part of the action that they pull those little conferences for everything so the focus is on them. 

 

I've been saying it for years, the rulebook these days is so convoluted and unclear that the whole thing needs to be trashed and they need to start over from scratch. That'll never happen, though. NFL admit mistakes? Ha!

[mjt328]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

I was with you until allowing holding and PI.  Sure that would make it easier to judge but that's not where you want to go.  But there are clear examples of PI, like NRC's was.

 

Not saying I necessarily support that idea.

I'm just saying that as long as subjectivity is involved, you can't completely fix the problem.

 

You can't just make Pass Interference reviewable sometimes.  If you do it for the Robey-Coleman plays, then you open it up to every single passing play.

[The Frankish Reich]

On 1/22/2019 at 3:39 PM, Just Joshin' said:

If only the refs were full time the results would be better.

? Yeah, that old theory is holding up well, isn't it?  Referees now make $200,000 a year.

5 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Not saying I necessarily support that idea.

I'm just saying that as long as subjectivity is involved, you can't completely fix the problem.

 

You can't just make Pass Interference reviewable sometimes.  If you do it for the Robey-Coleman plays, then you open it up to every single passing play.

But if you eliminate the booth-ordered reviews and limit each coach to 2 per game, you don't have to worry about this.

I never understood why plays in the last 2 minutes (or if extended the last 5 minutes, or the last quarter, or whatever) are treated differently. Game changing calls can occur at any time.  Best to just limit the amount of challenges and have all of them coach-initiated.

[WideNine]

They just have to be consistent rather than reviewable.

 

The officiating is all over the place. If they actually enforced PI's consistently then DBs would adjust to the way it is called and stop mugging receivers all the way down the field.

 

Hail Mary's at the end of the game should simply be exempt from PIs, and relegated to the desperate scrum it should be.

 

IMO teams that put themselves in the position of needing a miracle pass to win the game should not expect officiating help. Let the ball bounce off 5 guys wrestling around and land in the arms of someone 10 feet from the play.

 

Those are the kind of plays that make the game interesting right down to the wire.

 

 

[djp14150]

On 1/22/2019 at 2:18 PM, LabattBlue said:

Clearly they can't enforce it by the letter of the law.  Much like there is OL holding on every play, there is hand fighting on every pass play between the DB and the WR.  If they allow that ticky tack stuff to be reviewed and enforced, teams will save their challenges for the 4th quarter, heave bombs, and if no catch or no flag, throw the challenge for a potential 40-50 yard gain.

 

It is somehow going to have to be written in the rules that the PI has to be blatant(good luck defining that).  

 

They may regret going down the road of opening up replay challenges to more plays than currently allowed.

 

 

Thry can...they are lazy.

 

they change PI to two types...

 

1 type 1 is mild contact being just off on contact would be a 10 yd penalty and 1st down.

 

flagrant PI is a spot  foul.  Thus can be challenged by coaches.  The non call was flagrant because the cab wasn’t even looking at the ball.

 

thr other piece of this that wasn’t called was head shot and defenseless receiver which is a personafoul  and needs to be subject to review

 

all personal foul calls should be subject to reveiew.

 

 

with roughing the passer there shoukd be two forms. One on head shots and one not. Head shots can be reviewed.

[TigerJ]

My suggestion is to make plays where there is a change of possession totally reviewable, including penatlies.  The change of possessions could be due to a fumble, interception, or downs.  They already review the plays to look at fumbles and interceptions.  I know, there is still the issue of ticky tack stuff that everybody commits all the time.  They'd have to figure out how much of that they are going to allow in reviews, but it would have allowed the league office to catch NRC's mugging of the New Orleans receiver on the non-call that cost the Saints a trip to the Super Bowl and led to a class action lawsuit against the league.  Since most change of possession plays are already reviewed, (except for turning the ball over on downs) there would be little or no time added to games.

Edited January 25, 2019 by TigerJ

[Augie]

It’s one thing to talk about petty hand play on PI calls, or a hold along the line, or was there an inadvertent facemask. 

 

It’s a totally different thing if you lead the sweep with the horse that came in when you threw down the flag, or the guy on the sideline stepped in to take him down as he was sprinting in for the TD. 

 

There needs to be some process for the GROSS INFRACTION that the refs missed or ignored. I don’t have the answer, but that ignored PI was the worst call/non-call I have ever seen in all my years of watching sports. That has to be fixed, if only  because legalized betting now makes people more skeptical than ever, justifiably. 

[Spiderweb]

On 1/22/2019 at 5:23 PM, skibum said:

... They will make football unwatchable. Bad calls are part of the game, and there's already too much video review slowing things down. Harrumph.

Bad calls themselves are ruining the game.

[row_33]

10 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

Bad calls themselves are ruining the game.

 

if you are watching 100% just to pick at the refs, then DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

14 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

 

 

 

flagrant PI is a spot  foul.  Thus can be challenged by coaches.  The non call was flagrant because the cab wasn’t even looking at the ball.

 

 

 

 

NEVER!!!  A pro QB is capable of striking 50 yards downfield with precision on any given pass.  Spot fouls would mean the D would pull down a man who has cleanly beaten him every single time.

 

For the first time this year I saw college kids doing this a few times a game, but that's a skill level barely 1/10th of the NFL.

 

 

 

took them long enough to figure this out....