The issue of a small competing window due to a QB on a rookie deal- what’s your solution?

[HappyDays]

The salary cap goes up about $10 million per year. I would front load the contract, give him 6 years, and guarantee all of it at signing in exchange for a few million less per year. By year 3 it won't take up too much of the cap space anymore. It would be a risk but if your QB proves he is good enough to be your franchise QB for 15 years you take it. The Colts did it right. In 2021 Luck's cap hit is only $21 million. That leaves them negotiating power for his 2nd big contract.

[Dr.Sack]

Patrick Mahomes is worth twice the value of Marcel Dareus. Or Dareus & Mario Williams combine. Mahomes should get a $200 million contract at $40 million per season and $100 million upfront. And by age 29/30 he will sign another $300 million contract. I hope Josh Allen proves he’s worth this kind of $.

[gobills1212]

Ill lyk when it becomes and issue

[Prickly Pete]

4 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I dont think Tom Brady or Drew Brees are still on a rookie contract, but I could be wrong. 

 

Tom Brady (most hated man in Buffalo) actually accepts less money to help keep his team competitive. He wants to win. He loves to win. He HAS to win.

I love that about him.

 

Drw Brees takes the big bucks....I have to wonder if he would have another SB Ring or 2 if he took less so his team had more money to throw around.

[MJS]

The teams that win the most are still the ones with elite, experienced, big contract QB's. Brady, Rothlisburger, Brees, Rivers, etc. I think it is silly that people believe the best chance to win a championship is with a QB on a rookie deal. Certainly there are examples of that, but usually it is the elites that are winning.

 

2 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Patrick Mahomes is worth twice the value of Marcel Dareus. Or Dareus & Mario Williams combine. Mahomes should get a $200 million contract at $40 million per season and $100 million upfront. And by age 29/30 he will sign another $300 million contract. I hope Josh Allen proves he’s worth this kind of $.

 

Wow. I guess we'll see in a few years. Lots can happen. Everyone thought Dak was the real deal after his first year and now people question that. Everyone thought RGIII was the real deal after one year.

 

If Mahomes can consistently do it, great for him and he'll get the big bucks. But consistency is the key. For all we know he could be battling injuries like a Sam Bradford a few years from now.

Edited January 22, 2019 by MJS

[reddogblitz]

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Only two players that I’ve ever seen play QB could truly hide all of the issues on a team- Manning and Brady. 

 

how can you say Brady can?

 

When has he ever been on a team with issues to hide? He took over a playoff team.  He has always had a primo OLine. Who can forget Fraud and Monitoring, and Identity Theft Protection?  He's always had a lights out kicker and a good defense and WR s that are a perfect fit for the system, The Gronk, and a solid run game.  not to mention coaching.  And then there's the cheating ...

[reddogblitz]

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

The entire premise of this line of thought is derived from the Seahawks run. It's a logical fallacy IMO. Many of the departed defensive players haven't done much elsewhere or retired. If Seattle had drafted well and didn't screw up the Jimmy Graham trade, they'd be in better shape. They also DID happen to make the playoffs.

 

The bottom line is you must pay your QB's top dollar and they're difficult to find. Many of the QB's people talk about are simply not elite. (Stafford, Cousins, Flacco to name a few).

 

If your QB is truly elite, it will work itself out.

 

 

Hawks already had decent talent when Russell arrived. They had gone 7-9 the 2 years before.  They won a playoff game (Beast Quake) one of those years.  They had the Beast and Sydney Rice.

 

Seems to me they had a better plan. Get some decent talent together, THEN add the QB on rookie contract.  We did the opposite. Hopefully it works.

 

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 hours ago, OJ Tom said:

 

Tom Brady (most hated man in Buffalo) actually accepts less money to help keep his team competitive. He wants to win. He loves to win. He HAS to win.

I love that about him.

 

Drw Brees takes the big bucks....I have to wonder if he would have another SB Ring or 2 if he took less so his team had more money to throw around.

You can't confuse Brady's 22 million 2018 (27 mm in 2019) with a Rookie contract. My implied point was that some GM and coaching staffs are superior to others, and find a way to be consistently competitive without a rookie contract QB>

But I agree with your post. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

"Great" QB's w/o a good supporting cast often get looked down on.  If you are one of the "great ones" you can find plenty of Ketchup endorsement deals to offset the lack of an extra $100Mil.  

 

examples 

Brees - only 1 SB 

Rivers - No SB

Matt Ryan - only 1 SB 

Andrew Luck

Tony Romo

Andy Dalton

Matthew Stafford

Edited January 22, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[NoSaint]

ultimately I’m curious why this needs to be “fixed”

 

How much of a slam dunk should the super bowl be for teams with decent QBs and why do we need to widen the gap long term between the haves and have nots? 

 

Shouldnt hitting a high pick at the most important position give you a short term perk of great value?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Max contracts maybe? But then ur limiting the income of the player

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, OJ Tom said:

 

Tom Brady (most hated man in Buffalo) actually accepts less money to help keep his team competitive. He wants to win. He loves to win. He HAS to win.

I love that about him.

 

Drw Brees takes the big bucks....I have to wonder if he would have another SB Ring or 2 if he took less so his team had more money to throw around.

and many of his teammates go to TB12 for treatment.     He's making $ off of that 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, OJ Tom said:

 

Tom Brady (most hated man in Buffalo) actually accepts less money to help keep his team competitive. He wants to win. He loves to win. He HAS to win.

I love that about him.

 

Drw Brees takes the big bucks....I have to wonder if he would have another SB Ring or 2 if he took less so his team had more money to throw around.

Brady taking less money is so overblown. He takes a few percentage points less than the top paid QBs. Its the Patriots moving on from high priced veterans that has saved them. Not signing Welker and Vinatieri and replcing with Edelman, Hogan, and Gostkowski. 

[dubs]

That’s the recipe for winning with a good QB and a good Coach. 

 

To win year after year after that window, you need a truly great QB and great coach (and GM). 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Good point on both ends, but either way, it still causes massive problems.

 

Mahomes can raise the level, but you can’t replace a Hill, Or a Kelce, or that offensive line with underpaid nobody’s and expect that much of a difference. They were a decent team with Smith last year. 

Only two players that I’ve ever seen play QB could truly hide all of the issues on a team- Manning and Brady. (And the argument could be made that Brady didn’t do that, but Bill did)

 

 

 

 

For me, it just doesn’t seem like the current explosion of QB salaries is a sustainable model. 

 

 

Didn't we hear this about Brees's salary bump years ago?  How it would destroy the team's chances of finding a winning roster going forward?

 

Most of the "explosion" is due to veteran free agent contracts or guys like Rodgers on their 3rd or more contract, not former rookie deals signing their second contract.  In fact, there's not one QB in the top 10 annual salary in that category.  Wilson is close at #11.

 

MAnning never had to "hide" issues on Offense....he was surrounded by O talent in Indy for most if not all of his career.

 

 

 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

14 hours ago, whatdrought said:

That’s a weird title, I know, but I didn’t want to be vague.

 

I’ve heard a lot lately about how team building is all about getting a good young QB, then surrounding him with pieces while you can before he commands an ungodly amount of money. The Seahawks, I think are an example bandied about. I had someone mention that Reid only has like 2 years left to figure out how to win in the playoffs before Mahomes is the million dollar man x200.

 

But this seems crazy to me to think that getting a good QB can actually become a crutch after a couple of years. I suppose this thought could be blown out of preportion, but it seems like there’s some truth to it.

 

All that to say- what would be your solution? You have a young QB whose playing great and you know in the next year or two you’re gonna have to pay him. How do you handle this?

 

14 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

If you have a sure fire QB you keep him

 

and don’t overpay until he proves it.  

200 mil is overpriced 

 

 

Forgive me, whatdrought, I am not trying to over simplify this, I am just being concise.

 

I agree with what Shady says above, and additionally...have a good GM that keeps picking good young talent.  Maybe not great, but just good enough, and through multiple rounds,  to spread across the board on your team and keep you competitive as you lose some very higher end talent as a result of your QB salary.

Edited January 22, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[PetermansRedemption]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

how can you say Brady can?

 

When has he ever been on a team with issues to hide? He took over a playoff team.  He has always had a primo OLine. Who can forget Fraud and Monitoring, and Identity Theft Protection?  He's always had a lights out kicker and a good defense and WR s that are a perfect fit for the system, The Gronk, and a solid run game.  not to mention coaching.  And then there's the cheating ...

Brady’s O-line is anything but primo. Do we forget how quickly Nate Solder looked like trash without Brady? Brady has an impeccable internal clock that allows him to avoid sacks without being particularly mobile. That makes his O-line look good, not the other way around. He’s never had a top WR, look how great Danny Ammendola produced in Miami without Brady. Brady’s RB’s have rarely been top of the line. Sony Michel could turn into that, or it could be the threat of Brady’s passing game that opens up the run game. A good defense? The past two years the Patriots defense have been anything but top notch. Buffalo bias comes in huge with Brady, I understand that. But try putting it aside for a while and realize the best QB to ever play the game makes all the other facets of the team appear better than they are. 

[BillsVet]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Didn't we hear this about Brees's salary bump years ago?  How it would destroy the team's chances of finding a winning roster going forward?

 

Most of the "explosion" is due to veteran free agent contracts or guys like Rodgers on their 3rd or more contract, not former rookie deals signing their second contract.  In fact, there's not one QB in the top 10 annual salary in that category.  Wilson is close at #11.

 

Manning never had to "hide" issues on Offense....he was surrounded by O talent in Indy for most if not all of his career.

 

Bills fans haven't been faced with sustaining a winning team since the 90s, and that was during the infancy of free agency.  Things are way more complicated, but that's what guys like Beane and the front office are for:  developing innovative solutions to emerging problems like cap management.

 

First, it's important to identify the players you can't live without and then build around them. Drafting well is absolutely necessary to avoid needing to spend in free agency. The better teams use UFA sparingly. Prioritize the positions in the draft which aren't typically found in UFA: QB, DE, WR, perhaps OT.  You can find RBs, interior OL, LBs, interior DL and safety in free agency.

 

As Beane has noted, once your're drafting well, then re-sign your own guys, especially at the in-demand positions.  Move players who show signs of regressing.  Better to get rid of a player 1 year early than 1 year late.  Have a player in place ready to step up, again through solid drafting.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

how can you say Brady can?

 

When has he ever been on a team with issues to hide? He took over a playoff team.  He has always had a primo OLine. Who can forget Fraud and Monitoring, and Identity Theft Protection?  He's always had a lights out kicker and a good defense and WR s that are a perfect fit for the system, The Gronk, and a solid run game.  not to mention coaching.  And then there's the cheating ...

 

He had Moss at the tail of a career, but how many HOF candidates did Brady play with on offense?  WR's?  RB's?

[Jobot]

Solution - play cupid and set your young qb up with with rich/famous model so he doesn't have to care about money.