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Allen is NOT inaccurate unless Baker, Lamar, Darnold, Rosen, 2017 Watson & 2016 Wentz are, too

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1 minute ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

His low completion % is a distortion resulting from:

 

1)  Being near the top in % dropped passes

2)  Being near the top in % spikes and throwaways

3)  Leading the league in depth of target

4)  Being near the top in throws under pressure

5)  Being a rookie

6)  Lacking enough accuracy on some of his throws  (Not hitting his spot or improper timing, route running or reads?  We rarely know for sure.)

 

Because of the predraft assessments, for some #6 is the only one that matters. The low comp% confirms what they think they already knew.   It's the only one they want to consider and therefore no need to look any further.  If #1 & 2 (objectively quantifiable if evenly applied) and #3 and  4 (less so) are considered his completion% would look more like other rookies which is TBF's major conclusion and the basis of this thread title.  It makes sense to me.

Sadly there are some purported fans of the teams who want to see Allen fail so they can say their initial impression of him was correct.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Flacco didn't just "play better". He was absolutely brilliant in that run. He was the single biggest reason they won the Superbowl once in the playoffs. 

 

And I’m suggesting that he had a great run if you look at the box score, but the o line, running game and outstanding WR play all factored in.

 

and Ray Lewis’s defense was elite. They held the pats to 13 POINTS! 

 

Rice and Pierce were incredible. Boldin was RAC marchine and made contested catches like no one else. Flacco was still riding a lousey completion percentage. But he didn't toss any picks and Torrey, Anquan and even the last guy you’d expect, jacoby Jones played out of their minds. 

 

Defense was lights out incredible with picks and points in the playoffs.  +6 in TOs...  

 

Put Flacco on that same team and he’s winning it again. 

 

Hell Fitpatrick gets a ring on that squad. 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

And I’m suggesting that he had a great run if you look at the box score, but the o line, running game and outstanding WR play all factored in.

 

Rice and Pierce were incredible. Boldin was RAC marchine and made contested catches like no one else. Flacco was still riding a lousey completion percentage. But he didn't toss any picks and Torrey, Anquan and even the last guy you’d expect, jacoby Jones played out of their minds. 

 

Defense was lights out incredible with picks and points in the playoffs.  +6 in TOs...  

 

Put Flacco on that same team and he’s winning it again. 

 

Hell Fitpatrick gets a ring on that squad. 

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

 

Fair enough. It is certainly a fact that QBs often get far too much blame but also far too much credit in today’s NFL.

 

If you asked the most analytical of ravens fans, they might say the key was Jim Caldwell. 

 

Flacco was certainly a beneficiary of a team firing on literally ALL cylinders and some incredible bounces, That power outage almost did them in notwithstanding. 

 

Living in MD surrounded by ravens...

 

btw- note a tie back to the OP.

 

Flacco in his Brilliance was around 50% completion in the first two post season games. No one accused him of accuracy issues. 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

or Rahim morris taking a time machine back to his pop warner days as he totally whiffed on that awful prayer of a pass that flacco launched into the mile high air....

 

I agree flacco played great during that run but it never should have went further than Denver IMO..... what an awful throw and an even worse play by the safety.

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18 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

or Rahim morris taking a time machine back to his pop warner days as he totally whiffed on that awful prayer of a pass that flacco launched into the mile high air....

 

I agree flacco played great during that run but it never should have went further than Denver IMO..... what an awful throw and an even worse play by the safety.

 

To be fair, he was coaching the Redskins' secondary at the time, so he probably shouldn't have been on the field.

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1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

To be fair, he was coaching the Redskins' secondary at the time, so he probably shouldn't have been on the field.

🤣 Moore! Rahim MOORE! LOL.

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21 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

......Let's assume that Allen did in fact play with a bad O-line and bad WR last season (wich I am good with...that seems like a reasonable assumption)  WHY would Allen decide on purpose to do the LEAST optimal thing he can do under those circumstances?  A bad line would mean poor protection to allow time for downfield plays to develope and those would supposedly develop less often and more slowly with bad WR.  The optimal thing to do under these circumstance would be designed plays/audibles, RPO action etc that would happen quickly and a read made more quickly to a shorter, faster develping route to mitigate the bad Oline and bad WR.  

 

Either the coaches called bad plays for Allen to try and throw deeper...OR they called good plays and Allen made bad choices.  One of those had to have happened.

 

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy discussion.

 

But I don't disagree with you.

 

Decision making was Allen's single biggest problem last year.

 

Not accuracy.

 

But as to the bolded, are you just assuming Allen had the ability to freely audible?

 

He was a rookie.

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14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

And I’m suggesting that he had a great run if you look at the box score, but the o line, running game and outstanding WR play all factored in.

 

and Ray Lewis’s defense was elite. They held the pats to 13 POINTS! 

 

Rice and Pierce were incredible. Boldin was RAC marchine and made contested catches like no one else. Flacco was still riding a lousey completion percentage. But he didn't toss any picks and Torrey, Anquan and even the last guy you’d expect, jacoby Jones played out of their minds. 

 

Defense was lights out incredible with picks and points in the playoffs.  +6 in TOs...  

 

Put Flacco on that same team and he’s winning it again. 

 

Hell Fitpatrick gets a ring on that squad. 

 

Such a stupid post.

 

Such Flacco hate.

 

Flacco is why they made that playoff run and why they won that Super Bowl.

 

It's really that simple.

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1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy discussion.

 

But I don't disagree with you.

 

Decision making was Allen's single biggest problem last year.

 

Not accuracy.

 

But as to the bolded, are you just assuming Allen had the ability to freely audible?

 

He was a rookie.

 

He probalby didn't have much freedom to audible, but there is plenty of film where you can tell Allen has deliberately passed up an open, short, designed route, to throw downfield to a target that isn't open etc.  I think Baldinger did a film breakdown (it may have been someone else) showing Allen doing this on many occasions and more often than not, resulting in a negative play.

 

I don't care how you want to break it down...or what word you want to use...I like to use the term passing efficiency because it implies the entire team as the passing game....Allen (and the team) aren't going to win much if they aren't more efficient when passing....and that probably has more to do with Allen than the other parts.....can't wait to see how he does with the better roster and the whole offseason of coaching etc.  

 

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Louis Riddick on ESPN talking about Buffalo and Josh:

 

I love Sean and what he is doing with the roster, but I just don't have faith in an inaccurate QB like Josh. And if you do have a QB like that, it's no use drafting small WRs like Beasley and Brown with small catch radiuses. Glass half empty for mine.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Such a stupid post; (ready.... here it is) 

 

Such Flacco hate.

 

Flacco is why they made that playoff run and why they won that Super Bowl.

 

It's really that simple.

 

You prefaced your post well lobotomyBF.   

 

In a complex world, Simple minds need simple answers. 

 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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12 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Louis Riddick on ESPN talking about Buffalo and Josh:

 

I love Sean and what he is doing with the roster, but I just don't have faith in an inaccurate QB like Josh. And if you do have a QB like that, it's no use drafting small WRs like Beasley and Brown with small catch radiuses. Glass half empty for mine.

 

Well. Louis Riddick is entitled to his own opinion, but how much you wanna bet he didn't actually watch all of Allen's passes this year?

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10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

You prefaced your post well lobotomyBF.   

 

In a complex world, Simple minds need simple answers. 

 

 

So you're resorting to an "I know you are, but what am I?" post?

 

Ridiculous.

 

Joe Flacco was the singular driving factor involved in that Super Bowl run.

 

"Bu... bu... but the defense held the Patriots to 13 points!!!"

 

True, and they held Indianapolis to 9 points.

 

But where was the Defense for the Denver game or for the Super Bowl when they gave up a combined 66 points and 866 yards?

 

Yeah, the sure did rise up and lift that team to victory.

 

Oh wait... no they didn't.

 

By the way, in those 2 combined games Flacco threw the ball 67 times for over 600 yards, 6 TDs and ZERO Interceptions.

 

It was consistently Flacco.  You're being silly.

 

But keep diggin your hole.  See how far down you can go.  Maybe you'll reach China.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So you're resorting to an "I know you are, but what am I?" post?

 

Ridiculous.

 

Joe Flacco was the singular driving factor involved in that Super Bowl run.

 

"Bu... bu... but the defense held the Patriots to 13 points!!!"

 

True, and they held Indianapolis to 9 points.

 

But where was the Defense for the Denver game or for the Super Bowl when they gave up a combined 66 points and 866 yards?

 

Yeah, the sure did rise up and lift that team to victory.

 

Oh wait... no they didn't.

 

By the way, in those 2 combined games Flacco threw the ball 67 times for over 600 yards, 6 TDs and ZERO Interceptions.

 

It was consistently Flacco.  You're being silly.

 

But keep diggin your hole.  See how far down you can go.  Maybe you'll reach China.

 

“But where was the Defense for the Denver”?

 

Tell you what brah, rewatch that game and keep your eye on Corey Graham.  Let me know what you learn.  Ray Rice 131 yards? Watch the Denver DB misjudge an underthown bomb that just as easily could have been a game ending pick on 3rd and 3. 

 

ok SF... Flacco had a nice first half And A Very ineffective  Second half. Tucker and Jacoby Jones 108 yd kickoff return and a last second goal line stand won that game. 

 

Sure Flacco played well, as he has in other years and in other playoff runs. He didn’t have some out of body experience, he was surrounded with the most complete Ravens team EVER, WR, RB, Defense, KR,K,OL.

 

That’s why they won.

 

Sorry the facts don’t fit the narrative Flacco became a one time 4 week Hall of Famer than forgot how to play, which I guess is your position....  

 

sure that makes more sense than having a really good team. 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

“But where was the Defense for the Denver”?

 

Tell you what brah, rewatch that game and keep your eye on Corey Graham.  Let me know what you learn.  Ray Rice 131 yards? Watch the Denver DB misjudge an underthown bomb that just as easily could have been a game ending pick on 3rd and 3. 

 

ok SF... Flacco had a nice first half And A Very ineffective  Second half. Tucker and Jacoby Jones 108 yd kickoff return and a last second goal line stand won that game. 

 

Sure Flacco played well, as he has in other years and in other playoff runs. He didn’t have some out of body experience, he was surrounded with the most complete Ravens team EVER, WR, RB, Defense, KR,K,OL.

 

That’s why they won.

 

Sorry the facts don’t fit the narrative Flacco became a one time 4 week Hall of Famer than forgot how to play, which I guess is your position....  

 

sure that makes more sense than having a really good team. 

 

Nice job cherry-picking.

 

The facts are that Flacco had one of the most impressive playoff to Super Bowl runs as a QB in NFL history.

 

The guy threw ZERO interceptions to 11 TDs.  4 of those TDs were in the 4th Quarter.  1 was essentially a walkoff game winning TD.

 

Tell you what, football is the ultimate team game, so it's obvious that other players on the Ravens were required to win that Super Bowl on the field at various times, but it's delusional to insinuate that Flacco was somehow along for the ride or that the defense was somehow more responsible for that Super Bowl win.

 

The Ravens had a middling defense that year during the regular season and a middling defense throughout the defense.

 

That's what they were.

 

Now, maybe everyone found some extra motivation because Lewis was retiring, but as far as on the field play goes, Flacco was the single player BY FAR who was most responsible for that Super Bowl run.

 

I don't like Flacco and didn't really ever want him as our QB, but trying to take away or diminish an accomplishment like that is preposterous.

 

Tell you what, brah, rather than cherry-picking individual plays why don't you rewatch the ENTIRE 4 GAME RUN and identify a single player or a single positional group somehow more responsible for that Super Bowl run than Flacco.

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Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Nice job cherry-picking.

 

The facts are that Flacco had one of the most impressive playoff to Super Bowl runs as a QB in NFL history.

 

The guy threw ZERO interceptions to 11 TDs.  4 of those TDs were in the 4th Quarter.  1 was essentially a walkoff game winning TD.

 

Tell you what, football is the ultimate team game, so it's obvious that other players on the Ravens were required to win that Super Bowl on the field at various times, but it's delusional to insinuate that Flacco was somehow along for the ride or that the defense was somehow more responsible for that Super Bowl win.

 

The Ravens had a middling defense that year during the regular season and a middling defense throughout the defense.

 

That's what they were.

 

Now, maybe everyone found some extra motivation because Lewis was retiring, but as far as on the field play goes, Flacco was the single player BY FAR who was most responsible for that Super Bowl run.

 

I don't like Flacco and didn't really ever want him as our QB, but trying to take away or diminish an accomplishment like that is preposterous.

 

Tell you what, brah, rather than cherry-picking individual plays why don't you rewatch the ENTIRE 4 GAME RUN and identify a single player or a single positional group somehow more responsible for that Super Bowl run than Flacco.

 

The facts are that Flacco had one of the most impressive playoff to Super Bowl runs as a QB in NFL history.”

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Tell you what brah, rewatch that game and keep your eye on Corey Graham.  Let me know what you learn.  Ray Rice 131 yards? Watch the Denver DB misjudge an underthown bomb that just as easily could have been a game ending pick on 3rd and 3. 

 

And holy crap what a characterization of that pass.  Just went back and watched and rewatched and rewatched that play. #26 never even had a chance to intercept that ball, no matter what he did.  At best, he might have been able to tip it.  But Flacco threw a pretty good ball there.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  It could have been a little longer so that Jones wouldn't have to slow down, but the DB never had a chance to intercept, just to possibly make a play on it.

 

On top of that, you have Flacco evade pressure and step up in the pocket to make a clutch 3rd down throw at THE critical juncture of the game.

 

What an amazing play!

 

The way you paint that pass seriously contradicts reality.

 

Rather than telling me to go back and watch individual plays, maybe you should  :doh:

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And holy crap what a characterization of that pass.  Just went back and watched and rewatched and rewatched that play. #26 never even had a chance to intercept that ball, no matter what he did.  At best, he might have been able to tip it.  But Flacco threw a pretty good ball there.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  It could have been a little longer so that Jones wouldn't have to slow down, but the DB never had a chance to intercept, just to possibly make a play on it.

 

On top of that, you have Flacco evade pressure and step up in the pocket to make a clutch 3rd down throw at THE critical juncture of the game.

 

What an amazing play!

 

The way you paint that pass seriously contradicts reality.

 

Rather than telling me to go back and watch individual plays, maybe you should  :doh:

Funny the analyst in the clip even say “how could he have misplayed it THAT badly???” You’re starting to embarrass yourself badly, in writing now.    

 

 

Sorry this wins...Flacco greatest ever!!! Hahaha

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The facts are that Flacco had one of the most impressive playoff to Super Bowl runs as a QB in NFL history.”

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

That's what I thought.

Sylvester-Stallone-Facepalm.gif

 

Guess those 29 years of fanhood haven't made you any smarter.

You derailed your own thread 🤣

 

 

36 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The facts are that Flacco had one of the most impressive playoff to Super Bowl runs as a QB in NFL history.”

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

No meme is saving you now. Lolol maybe this one?

 

315E290F-43D6-4DBD-8E33-297F00CD2A00.thumb.jpeg.9c5ec294eeb2d41c9e7777a238fc0956.jpeg

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood
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On 5/28/2019 at 8:33 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

He's had some MONEY runs in the playoffs. He's not had a particularly stellar career. Both things can be true. People seem to have a really difficult time accepting that two ostensibly contradictory things can both be true.

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5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well. Louis Riddick is entitled to his own opinion, but how much you wanna bet he didn't actually watch all of Allen's passes this year?

 

It's a fair bet he probably watched less than half. 

 

But even if he did see them all, I think his assessment of Josh is all wrong. How can he be so big on Rosen who had a similar completion percentage and an equally bad OLine.

 

His assessment is inconsistent at best.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

He probalby didn't have much freedom to audible, but there is plenty of film where you can tell Allen has deliberately passed up an open, short, designed route, to throw downfield to a target that isn't open etc.  I think Baldinger did a film breakdown (it may have been someone else) showing Allen doing this on many occasions and more often than not, resulting in a negative play.

 

I don't care how you want to break it down...or what word you want to use...I like to use the term passing efficiency because it implies the entire team as the passing game....Allen (and the team) aren't going to win much if they aren't more efficient when passing....and that probably has more to do with Allen than the other parts.....can't wait to see how he does with the better roster and the whole offseason of coaching etc.  

 

This was absolutely the case.

 

Allen would refuse to check down to take the shot downfield for more yardage. Hopefully he adjusts and takes the check downs because they'll be open early in the season with teams being more familiar with Josh's tendencies, IMO.

17 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Louis Riddick on ESPN talking about Buffalo and Josh:

 

I love Sean and what he is doing with the roster, but I just don't have faith in an inaccurate QB like Josh. And if you do have a QB like that, it's no use drafting small WRs like Beasley and Brown with small catch radiuses. Glass half empty for mine.

This is why many have concerns with the Bills WRs and why many wanted the Bills to draft a guy like Metcalf.

 

 

Edited by ScottLaw

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