The more I look at this...we could end up keeping McCoy and clay!

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Nate Peterman starting week 1 wasn't enough for you?

Hahaha. Yep, that’s a huuuuge red flag. Double down with fat cat Benjamin and Clay would be the trifecta . McDermott needs to put more stock in game film and less in practice. 

[familykwi]

7 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

...  Mentoring is a job for coaches, not players.

I don't agree with this.  Veteran leadership has value.  Rookies may respect coaches, but they also respect veterans who have done what they want to do.

 

I can make an argument for keeping Shady as he has presented as a locker room leader.  Off-field nonsense aside.

 

I've not heard much about how Clay is in the room, but I think the coaches are ready to move on.

 

Just because you have $90M to spend doesn't mean you have to in one off-season.  Indy did not last year and they're sitting awful pretty right now.

40 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Why not?

My eyes tell me he still have elusiveness, but is slow to the hole.

 

I concede he too often failed to have room as he was often met in the backfield by defenders, but on other occasions in space, I did not see a back who can quickly accelerate forward.

[Alphadawg7]

 McCoy will be here and Clay won't.

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..FA spending has to meet the "89% Rule" under current CBA........

Spending requirements

There is a minimum amount of money that a team can put towards their caps. All 32 teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of their caps (which projected for year 2019 is $187-$191 mil). This is called the minimum cash spend requirement, also known as the 89 percent rule.

This isnt entirely accurate. The 89% rule doesnt come into play for a single year, it comes into play for any given 4 year period. I believe last year was the first year of the second 4 year period, so the Bills can pretty much do whatever they want next year and still have 2 years to get to that 89% number.

 

And even if they don't there is no real penalty other than giving the monetary difference between what they spent and the 89% to the NFLPA.

[billsfan_34]

Clay is old and slow- he is on the hook for 9 mil with a 4.5 mil cap hit if released saving 4.5 mil. He is as good as gone. Shady will be back- Beane and McClappy put a premium on integrity- Shady was told hes in the plans and will be a Bill next year. Re tool the line and all is well.

[KOKBILLS]

McCoy probably...in a reduced role...

 

But I see zero reason to keep Clay around...

 

0.00...?

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Why not?

To me McCoy lacked his first step and acceleration.  I do blame his yards per carry and lack of yards on the poor line play.  He got caught from behind by d lineman more than years past.  His cutbacks against the grain seemed more laboring as well.  Maybe he had an injury that was unreported but he looked off on the occassions he was in space.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Mat68

[brianb386]

6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..FA spending has to meet the "89% Rule" under current CBA........

Spending requirements

There is a minimum amount of money that a team can put towards their caps. All 32 teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of their caps (which projected for year 2019 is $187-$191 mil). This is called the minimum cash spend requirement, also known as the 89 percent rule.

We could still roll over somewhere around 19 million, that is still a significant amount. However, I am more worried about putting the right pieces in place than saving money. No reason to not be smart with the cap though.

[Ol Dirty B]

10 hours ago, buffalobillswin said:

The last thing I want Lesean McCoy to do is to be a mentor to anyone. Not just in the league but humanity in general. In fact I would tell today's youth to be the exact opposite of Shady. If you see him doing something around town, make it a point to do the exact opposite. 

 

So dont give out free tickets to inner city kids and cops and have them sit together?

[Bing Bong]

I don't see why not if we don't have money to spend elsewhere. I don't think Clay is so bad he shouldn't be on the roster.

 

I mean damn. Some of y'all have way overreacted about the dude since the Miami game. But he's not bad as a backup TE for us one bit. He's way overpaid, but if we're simply ending up with too much money for anyone else why not keep him. He's slow. He can still block. Really solid route runner (that's way too often overlooked in receivers. Yes. He can catch. Probably still has better hands than some of our lower depth receivers. He's had decent to good hands since he's been here.

 

Apparently blowing a potential miracle play for Josh Allen is punishable by death. He looked terrible that play I get it. But our players' value to the team is their competence within the role they are reasonably expected contribute to the team. That doesn't always involve being part of a meaningless game completely unexpected miracle throw from your rookie Quarterback to your backup TE so you can puff your chest up about how great JA is. JA made a fantastic play. Clay dropping it and it not buffing his stats doesn't mean JA didn't do something truly amazing that play.

 

He's absolutely better than nothing and better than many backup TEs in this league, let alone 3rd stringers.

 

And Shady is as good as an RB2 you can ask for. Would be great to see him in a change of pace role with a young talented RB and beefed up roster. 3rd down back. Again these guys are no doubt better than nothing. If money isn't the issue. I don't get why we don't keep em.

 

Not married to Clay or would be sad to see him go. But our evaluation of players solely to how they affect JA's box score and league perception is aggravating lol. We know what JA has shown he can do. Let's just evaluate players with JA blinders on pleeaaaase. Evaluate them for how good they are!

 

We're talking about depth. Which is the worst part of our roster. If we can't spend all this money than for the love of God just maintain depth going forward.

Edited January 15, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[WideNine]

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Clay had over 500 yards receiving 3 straight season prior to 2018. What happened? I would have no problem keeping him around as depth, but not Shady. Loved McCoy, but when it's over for a RB, it happens quickly. It's over. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Clay have a solid season elsewhere if we cut him loose. Shady, not so much.

 

 

 

This happened (below)

 

And then 2018 season out again with a pulled hammy for pretty much all of November. Croom started coming on and why waste reps on a player on the downside; Who is injured a lot, and can't stay on the field, and whose injuries have made him less effective? Not faulting Clay for getting injured, but it is what it is.

 

This is the same reason, or close enough to why I don't like Eifert as a FA pickup, he may have the juice when he is healthy and on the field, but that is not as often as it needs to be to be sure to get your bang for your buck.

 

 

Oct 8, 2017	NFL	Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2	Clay missed 3 games.
Oct 8, 2017	NFL	Knee Meniscus Tear	Clay had surgery after injuring his left knee in Week 5. He suffered a meniscus tear and MCL sprain on the same hit.
Sep 11, 2016	NFL	Knee Strain Grade 1	Clay strained his right knee and battled soreness all season, ultimately missing 1 game.
May 24, 2016	NFL	Back Lower Lumbar Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Clay was treated for a lingering lower back injury throughout the offseason.
Dec 13, 2015	NFL	Back Lower Lumbar Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Clay missed the final 3 games of 2015.
Nov 19, 2014	NFL	Thigh Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Clay pulled his right hamstring at practice and missed the next 2 games.
Aug 2, 2014	NFL	Knee Strain Grade 1	Clay was held out of practice until August 18.
Dec 16, 2012	NFL	Knee Meniscus Tear	Clay tore his meniscus in Week 15 and was placed on IR.
Aug 25, 2011	NFL	Thigh Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Clay strained his right hamstring in August. He missed 2 regular season games.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by WideNine

[Bing Bong]

22 minutes ago, WideNine said:

This is the same reason, or close enough to why I don't like Eifert as a FA pickup, he may have the juice when he is healthy and on the field, but that is not as often as it needs to be to be sure to get your bang for your buck.

Yeah Eifert's a top 10 TE talent but as injury prone as they get. Again we have all this money to spend on FA though getting depth on these types of players doesn't hurt on short term flyer contracts.

 

Mind you I don't want a ton of these types, but I'd do it. Eifert and a drafted TE, or another younger healthy FA type for more reliability next to a clear talent is fine by me. 

 

I just want to see depth. Get these guys wherever, whenever. There's really no position on this roster outside QB I wouldn't fill up with best FA value possible. Just load up the roster with good vet depth. Everywhere. Would be a very good compliment to the younguns. We're sorely lacking in veteran depth, which is why I don't mind keeping these guys if money is not an issue.

 

I'd prefer quantity over a handful of marquee FAs (although I'd love some at certain positions). Their deals will keep us flexible come time to re-sign our guys. And really I just see a need for vets to add depth, a healthy mix of experience for the youth movement, and getting us back to an NFL quality roster that has no reason not going 8-8. We severely lack in depth and this money should be a quick fix to go into next year without just some horrible positional talent on paper next year. 

 

Easy fix to end the blowouts and get the younguns to see themselves competing in every game. Totally fine with say 8 games of Eifert. I just don't want a ton of Eiferts

[MJS]

I don't put Clay and McCoy in the same boat at all. McCoy is a proven elite player. Clay has never been a top 10 TE, and seems to have been going down hill ever since we got him. He seems to have chronic injury issues. I don't want him back, but I would be fine with McCoy sticking around one more year.

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Yeah Eifert's a top 10 TE talent but as injury prone as they get. Again we have all this money to spend on FA though getting depth on these types of players doesn't hurt on short term flyer contracts.

 

Mind you I don't want a ton of these types, but I'd do it. Eifert and a drafted TE, or another younger healthy FA type for more reliability next to a clear talent is fine by me. 

 

I just want to see depth. Get these guys wherever, whenever. There's really no position on this roster outside QB I wouldn't fill up with best FA value possible. Just load up the roster with good vet depth. Everywhere. Would be a very good compliment to the younguns. We're sorely lacking in veteran depth, which is why I don't mind keeping these guys if money is not an issue.

 

I'd prefer quantity over a handful of marquee FAs (although I'd love some at certain positions). Their deals will keep us flexible come time to re-sign our guys. And really I just see a need for vets to add depth, a healthy mix of experience for the youth movement, and getting us back to an NFL quality roster that has no reason not going 8-8. We severely lack in depth and this money should be a quick fix to go into next year without just some horrible positional talent on paper next year. 

 

Easy fix to end the blowouts and get the younguns to see themselves competing in every game. Totally fine with say 8 games of Eifert. I just don't want a ton of Eiferts

 

I think Eifert will be looking for $$, but if he comes down to earth and is willing to take an incentive-laden short term "prove you can still get it done" contract then sure.

 

I like the idea of more veterans on the o-line, that group IMO more than most others benefits the most from having a few guys who have "been there done that" to balance the youth you are coaching up.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

This isnt entirely accurate. The 89% rule doesnt come into play for a single year, it comes into play for any given 4 year period. I believe last year was the first year of the second 4 year period, so the Bills can pretty much do whatever they want next year and still have 2 years to get to that 89% number.

 

And even if they don't there is no real penalty other than giving the monetary difference between what they spent and the 89% to the NFLPA.

 

...my apology.....thanks for clarification..........

[Ol Dirty B]

6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...my apology.....thanks for clarification..........

 

The CBA's in football and basketball have made it so complicated to fully understand cap implications. I think more so in the NFL than any other sport.

[Bing Bong]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I think Eifert will be looking for $$, but if he comes down to earth and is willing to take an incentive-laden short term "prove you can still get it done" contract then sure.

 

I like the idea of more veterans on the o-line, that group IMO more than most others benefits the most from having a few guys who have "been there done that" to balance the youth you are coaching up.

Yeah I have a hard time guaging exactly how much FA dough we really have. I kind of see it at this point.. given the money everybody else has in the market as well, and relative lack of bank breaking FAs, that we'll really be in a position to throw money pretty indiscriminately at every position for any player willing to play in Buffalo. Can't imagine how much a dent even like 5 OL signings would do to our cap.

 

Maybe I'm wrong there. Anyways I can't imagine Eifert would command a ton either ($8M per max?? One good year of production with a TE happy QB and injury prone, just not seeing an expensive player really) so I'm lumping him in that.. another pass catcher to throw money at indiscriminately group. I think we can pretty much throw as much as we want towards all OL and pass catchers

[WideNine]

4 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Yeah I have a hard time guaging exactly how much FA dough we really have. I kind of see it at this point.. given the money everybody else has in the market as well, and relative lack of bank breaking FAs, that we'll really be in a position to throw money pretty indiscriminately at every position for any player willing to play in Buffalo. Can't imagine how much a dent even like 5 OL signings would do to our cap.

 

Maybe I'm wrong there. Anyways I can't imagine Eifert would command a ton either ($8M per max?? One good year of production with a TE happy QB and injury prone, just not seeing an expensive player really) so I'm lumping him in that.. another pass catcher to throw money at indiscriminately group. I think we can pretty much throw as much as we want towards all OL and pass catchers

 

Even with the space I want to be sure the Bills keep enough reserves to sign some of the young guys they are grooming.

 

I am sick of the Bills being the NFL farm team that gets players to the pro-bowl only to have them finish their careers elsewhere. We can't keep everyone from jumping. but it would be nice to be more competitive keeping our home-grown talent.

[Bing Bong]

11 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Even with the space I want to be sure the Bills keep enough reserves to sign some of the young guys they are grooming.

 

I am sick of the Bills being the NFL farm team that gets players to the pro-bowl only to have them finish their careers elsewhere. We can't keep everyone from jumping. but it would be nice to be more competitive keeping our home-grown talent.

Oh yeah **** these FA's. I'm looking for short contracts, stopgaps, front loaded contracts, or contracts we can release with little penalty.

 

I don't think any guy I'm really into re-signing comes up for like 3 years.. strange contract situation. But I'm all about re-signing our guys for once.. let's try doing what the Packers and other likewise teams and phase to a team we've acquired 80% through draft (plus Hyde and Poyer )

 

i just want these FA's to make us fun to watch now haha. And give JA some lessons on winning in his 2nd and 3rd year

Edited January 15, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[iinii]

12 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

Now first off.  I'm for cutting both of them due to lack of production and high costs.  But as I thought about it...a few points came to mind.  

 

1.  We are soooo young as a team. We had first and second year players playing more snaps than anyone in the league and we have 10 draft picks to get even younger.  With kyle retiring we have very little vet leadership left and McCoy is one of them.  

 

2.  Are we really going to be able to spend 90M in cap space?  Let alone 100 if we cut these guys?  There aren't that many big free agents we can get at positions of need to eat up that much space.   So why cut 2 vets to save space when we can have them play out their next year and then take them off books when we need more space. 

 

3.  Supporting cast was terrible so having allen with another year under his belt and a better oline might make these guys better. 

 

4.  Chance we could get something for them mid year.  So we aren't cap strapped so keep them and see what happens.  A few teams needed backs this year and clay could fetch something for a team in need next year.  

 

5.  They could restructure and have less of a cap impact.  

 

6.  Mentors for draft picks.  These guys could groom their replacements for a year since we will likely draft both a TE and RB. 

 

I'm all for cutting dead weight but the lack of vets on a very young team that will be drafting someone in these positions might make it compelling to keep them especially since money isnt an issue this year.  

 

Thoughts?

Clay has zero value. You can keep him or cut him but you can’t trade him.