GunnerBill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Nextmanup said: There really aren't a lot of good OL FAs available for starters. And then we have to compete with everyone else in the league to get any FA as you point out, and that's a battle we lose to most destinations in the NFL. I don't really agree that there are not a lot of good FA OL out there. It is one of the stronger OL free agent pools in recent years - especially on the interior. There are three legitimate centers (Paradis, Morse and Easton), there are a number of good players available at guard (Spain, Turner, Foster, Saffold) plus a bunch of less long term but solid short term upgrades at guard (Levitre, Iupati, Glowinski, Garland, Compton etc). It is thinner, as you would expect, at tackle. There is nobody in this FA class who is going to come in and upgrade immediately at left tackle - those guys rarely get to FA. There are a couple (James and Williams) who would at right tackle but they will be very expensive as a result. That is why my preference in 2019 is to leave Dion where he is (because I have always believed that LG not RT is where you move him to if you move him) sign one of those 3 FA centers and one of those top FA guards (with maybe another guard if one of the second tier guys sits out there a bit). At RT I would try and do a short term extension with Mills and then look to draft his successor in the middle rounds of the draft. I think that would give you a fighting chance of making a big jump on the OL in 2019. Getting Castillo's successor right matters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Why does everyone feel the need to validate and verify this every 5 minute around here? This is far from known, at least as of now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdFront_USAF Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 hours ago, teef said: beane's moves made the roster "worse" to improve this team and make them a regular playoff contender. it starts with this off season. the bills have just existed as average for too long. a shake up was needed, and that's what we're getting. i have no idea if it's going to work, but i'm excited about our qb and some of the young pieces in place. i don't know why people are so flabbergasted by the way this year went. it's all unfortunately part of it. My feelings exactly. I was surprised how many people were all doom and gloom before the season and then acted like their minds were blown when we got blown out, or blamed Beane for the dead cap situation. Sure, he chose to create a good part of that dead cap. But he recognized that the longer we were hindered by big contracts on unwanted players, and a quarterback that was only going to win in very specific conditions (defense holds opposing team to less than 20, and a positive turnover differential), the longer we would be a middling team. Nobody knows for sure how this will end up, but you have to appreciate the balls our FO showed. It takes serious balls to take a qb that broke a nearly two decade drought and show him the door. It takes balls to strip the roster of problem players like Sammy and Marcell when they were two of the most talented players on the team. As for the op though, I think 2020 is the year it comes together. Next year is about filling in the holes on the roster with young picks and some stopgaps/ maybe a few impact players in free agency, without breaking the bank for the foreseeable future. By 2020 all those young guys will have a year of experience and a full offseason, while our cornerstones like White, Allen and Edmunds reach their peaks. Add in another influx of talent in the 2020 draft and free agency and we can absolutely be a contender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, ColdFront_USAF said: My feelings exactly. I was surprised how many people were all doom and gloom before the season and then acted like their minds were blown when we got blown out, or blamed Beane for the dead cap situation. Sure, he chose to create a good part of that dead cap. But he recognized that the longer we were hindered by big contracts on unwanted players, and a quarterback that was only going to win in very specific conditions (defense holds opposing team to less than 20, and a positive turnover differential), the longer we would be a middling team. Nobody knows for sure how this will end up, but you have to appreciate the balls our FO showed. It takes serious balls to take a qb that broke a nearly two decade drought and show him the door. It takes balls to strip the roster of problem players like Sammy and Marcell when they were two of the most talented players on the team. As for the op though, I think 2020 is the year it comes together. Next year is about filling in the holes on the roster with young picks and some stopgaps/ maybe a few impact players in free agency, without breaking the bank for the foreseeable future. By 2020 all those young guys will have a year of experience and a full offseason, while our cornerstones like White, Allen and Edmunds reach their peaks. Add in another influx of talent in the 2020 draft and free agency and we can absolutely be a contender. This is extermely well put. It’s not easy or even fair to ask fans to endure more losing for the sake of winning, but I don’t want a quick appearance here and there in the playoffs. I want to go into each season expecting this team to be playing into January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, teef said: This is extermely well put. It’s not easy or even fair to ask fans to endure more losing for the sake of winning, but I don’t want a quick appearance here and there in the playoffs. I want to go into each season expecting this team to be playing into January. They do have to show progress in 2019 though. A year when the on field product is as borderline unwatchable as it was at times in 2018 and they will rightly be in trouble. I normally watch the Bills and have redzone on mute in the background and there were three occasions this year - Packers, Pats (first meeting) and Colts where I muted the Bills and watched redzone in the 4th Quarter. I've done that once in 6 years before this season. If it is that bad again then that goes beyond what I think it is acceptable or even understandable to ask fans to endure. I should say I don't think it will be. But 2019 isn't a total pass in the way 2018 was for some... it can't be. It has to be improvement. It just doesn't, for me at least (and I suspect ownership too), have to be the playoffs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Augie said: I tend to agree, but I read here that some people are giving them only one more year, and that’s it! (No details provided as to the what if......) 3 years is your average evaluation period for a new regime. Our first year, we overachieved. This year was about right. Next year needs to show improvement. To what end, I don’t know how to quantify it so let’s just say 8-8. After next season, I think it’s fair game. The only way I see coach/gm turnover is if they lose control of the team and start laying eggs on the field, ala Rex Ryan at the end. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp83 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: I read this stuff and I wonder if I've watched the same thing as you... They made the team older, traded and created the dead cap space. They created this. The inherit bs is what Beane and McDermott are selling to make that next contract. Exactly! This is one of the reasons I'm not sold on McBeane The only thing they inherited was talent, they chose to create all this dead cap. Everyone good player they got rid of were under contract, with no dead cap. Imagine that, having good players with No dead cap! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: Exactly! This is one of the reasons I'm not sold on McBeane The only thing they inherited was talent, they chose to create all this dead cap. Everyone good player they got rid of were under contract, with no dead cap. Imagine that, having good players with No dead cap! I agree with this. A lot of what they did was their choice. But I think people have to remember Beane (who let's not forget was hired after that first draft) has consistently said that he told the Pegulas in his interview that this was his plan - use the first two years to dump what he thought were "bad contracts" and provide cap space. The Pegulas hired him on that basis. That is why I think that so long as 2019 is a step in the right direction they are safe. The Pegulas bought into the plan that this was going to take two years before they should even think about a contender being built. If they lose patience after a 2019 that is in that 8-8 territory then that would make their decision to hire Beane in the first place another on their growing list of hiring mistakes. The "inherit" line is the one that Beane has been pushing since his interview for the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: Exactly! This is one of the reasons I'm not sold on McBeane The only thing they inherited was talent, they chose to create all this dead cap. Everyone good player they got rid of were under contract, with no dead cap. Imagine that, having good players with No dead cap! All that inherited talent did wonders for the Bills before they got to Buffalo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 All down to Josh Allen and how they surround him. Huge off season for the future of this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: All down to Josh Allen and how they surround him. Huge off season for the future of this franchise. I agree. McBeane needs to prove they can identify offensive talent and the gap will close. If they can do that then I think they'll be around for a while. Edited January 14, 2019 by 4BillsintheBurgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Compare the mess from the 1st game of the year to what happened in week 17. The season ended too soon. We're poised for a big performance jump. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 hours ago, ColdFront_USAF said: Nobody knows for sure how this will end up, but you have to appreciate the balls our FO showed. It takes serious balls to take a qb that broke a nearly two decade drought and show him the door. It takes balls to strip the roster of problem players like Sammy and Marcell when they were two of the most talented players on the team. Effort doesn't count. Results do and teams don't get trophies for showing audacity. They have 90M in cap room as of right now, and despite what Beane says, they're going to spend. You don't get extra credit for having cap space when the season starts. Some fans don't recognize the expectation to win that the HC and GM know is there in off-season 3, but it's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: So have we come to a TBD consensus yet? Would have thought a straight forward question like this would have found early common ground.. As OP, I wasn't expecting 100% agreement, but was hoping for a clear consensus. I think this thread must stay open until we get there. C'mon, let's process, evaluate, and get to essentials. This lack of consensus resulted in the 17 year drought. Let's not go down that road again, plez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I'm not sure why anyone would be happy with 8-8, but Bills fans are so scared of expectations it's not surprising. Why is it so ridiculous to expect a large jump like you saw from the Bears and Rams with their respective young QBs and teams from year 1 to 2? Only in Buffalo is slow, gradual "progress" from 6-10 to 8-8 ok. I’m not so sure the fans on this board anyway would be ok with only incremental progress—most comments for the thread that asked this very question expect significant steps forward this coming season: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I'm not sure why anyone would be happy with 8-8, but Bills fans are so scared of expectations it's not surprising. Why is it so ridiculous to expect a large jump like you saw from the Bears and Rams with their respective young QBs and teams from year 1 to 2? Only in Buffalo is slow, gradual "progress" from 6-10 to 8-8 ok. what fans said the would be happy with 8-8? this keeps coming up. no one said it. reading comprehension people. the question of the thread was when would the gap be closed. some gave their opinion that it probably wouldn't be there next year, no that that was ok. stop with this nonsense narrative. 6 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I’m not so sure the fans on this board anyway would be ok with only incremental progress—most comments for the thread that asked this very question expect significant steps forward this coming season: they wouldn't be, nor should they be. some people just want to ignore what's being said in this thread for the sake of complaining. it can be difficult to have a discussion around here. i even had someone putting words in my mouth, literally lying about comments i've made. it's crazy town. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Virgil said: 3 years is your average evaluation period for a new regime. Our first year, we overachieved. This year was about right. Next year needs to show improvement. To what end, I don’t know how to quantify it so let’s just say 8-8. After next season, I think it’s fair game. The only way I see coach/gm turnover is if they lose control of the team and start laying eggs on the field, ala Rex Ryan at the end. it took Jim Kelly and the great team 3 years to get going, and that was after Jim had 3/4-pro experience as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Go read Virgils post. "Next year needs to show improvement, let's just say 8-8. After next season it's fair game." Like I said, fans need to look around the league. It doesn't take 4 years to build a perennial playoff team. so you interpret one person's post as that he's ok with it? i don't think he said he would be happy with it, but rather it may happen, and shouldn't get the staff fired. i'd be disappointed after only improving 2 games, but i suppose it could happen. i was originally against playing allen this past year at all, but now i'm happy he did because it may have sped up this rebuild process a bit. with a good fa and draft, only improving 2 games would be a huge bummer. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Who cares if it's 3 years or 4? This arbitrary number that is being thrown out there is ridiculous. What matters is that the team is moving in the right direction and that it competes for the division title. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Magox said: Who cares if it's 3 years or 4? This arbitrary number that is being thrown out there is ridiculous. What matters is that the team is moving in the right direction and that it competes for the division title. 3 or 4 years should rid us of Brady, but they will still cakewalk the division with 9 wins if the other 3 don't get their act together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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