Andre Reed Criticizes Personnel Decisions

[reddogblitz]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Playoff teams make mistakes too.    

 

He’s a good player, but it’s their mistake imo..  If they win the super bowl, it will be money well spent.  If they don’t win the title, the money would’ve been better spent on defense.  They need it.  Time will tell.

 

agree to disagree.

 

as I see it, Sammy is a stallion.  You need stallions to win. 

 

i wouldn't mind dumping him if we had someone better or could get someone better. 

 

2 years later and we're still waiting.  We still don't have anyone 1/2 as good even if Sammy only plays 8 games per.

 

i don't get this attitude that if a dude's not Jerry Rice we'd rather just suck along with the likes of Deonte Thompson, McKenzie, Zay, Felton, and Ray Ray.  Which one of these guys or any Bills WR the last 2 years start for any of the team that played this weekend?  How many would even make their taxi squad?

 

Sammy was the second most productive WR on a team that advanced to AFC Championship game today.  Top guy had 10 more yards.

 

But he's not good enough for the Bills?  OK.

Edited January 14, 2019 by reddogblitz

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

agree to disagree.

 

as I see it, Sammy is a stallion.  You need stallions to win. 

 

i wouldn't mind dumping him if we had someone better or could get someone better. 

 

2 years later and we're still waiting.  We still don't have anyone 1/2 as good even if Sammy only plays 8 games per.

 

i don't get this attitude that if a dude's not Jerry Rice we'd rather just suck along with the likes of Deonte Thompson, McKenzie, Zay, Felton, and Ray Ray.  Which one of these guys or any Bills WR the last 2 years start for any of the team that played this weekend?  How many would even make their taxi squad?

 

Sammy was the second most productive WR on a team that advanced to AFC Championship game today.  Top guy had 10 more yards.

 

But he's not good enough for the Bills?  OK.

 If I’m going to overpay I want a good return in my investment.  Being available to contribute is what I value most.  It’s not his fault he’s always hurt......but.....he’s always hurt.  The chiefs were in position where they could sit his out several games to make sure he’s available for the playoffs.  Not many teams have that luxury.  And we’ll see if that defense has enough talent to win the super bowl.

 

he’s a good player. He’s just not what I’d want to invest huge money into based on his inability to stay healthy while only producing sporadically 

[Dablitzkrieg]

What is the news about Reich that the OP is referring to???

[ganesh]

16 hours ago, GreggTX said:

We need to challenge and possibly win the AFCE next year. Anything less than 10 or 11 wins would be a real problem and (I'll get flamed for this) with Allen's accuracy issues, I just don't see it happening. We may win more games (7 or 8), but Allen's arm is our ceiling. They can't afford to hit the snooze button and just leave Allen unchallenged for the starting job after next year or we'll end up like the Dolphins with Tannehill -- maybe in the playoffs once in a while, but not really a threat.

Our QB group is set with the re-signing of Derek Anderson and Barkley.  And both of them are *NOT* going to challenge Allen for the starting gig. 

[Thriftygamer83]

18 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

He's just saying what many of us are thinking. They made the decision to go full rebuild so we've dealt with many growing pains.

 

This season is make or break for McBeane IMO. They drafted their QB who will be in his second season in the same system and have 90 mil in cap space. Hope and excuses will run dry if next season is anything like 2018. 

It is very much make or break; if we get steam rolled or are in an uncompetitive mindset and get manhandled it won’t last long.  I can see how it’s growing pains for McDermott as well never winning a game where he has trailed and going 0-4 against Belichek it’s like Paul Johnson against Georgia.  Although, in all honesty kind of surprised we didn’t try to bring in Johnson as a running game consultant or analyst a position Juan Castillo had held.  

[Bill_with_it]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

agree to disagree.

 

as I see it, Sammy is a stallion.  You need stallions to win. 

 

i wouldn't mind dumping him if we had someone better or could get someone better. 

 

2 years later and we're still waiting.  We still don't have anyone 1/2 as good even if Sammy only plays 8 games per.

 

i don't get this attitude that if a dude's not Jerry Rice we'd rather just suck along with the likes of Deonte Thompson, McKenzie, Zay, Felton, and Ray Ray.  Which one of these guys or any Bills WR the last 2 years start for any of the team that played this weekend?  How many would even make their taxi squad?

 

Sammy was the second most productive WR on a team that advanced to AFC Championship game today.  Top guy had 10 more yards.

 

But he's not good enough for the Bills?  OK.

He was the fourth offensive option on that team. 16 million a year for the fourth option????? He was no stud he’s playing solely in a complimentary role when he decides his foot doesn’t hurt too much to play.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, vorpma said:

Really, nobody out there who is a former Bill is setting the world on fire! Bill Polian once said the Bills fail as an organization because they keep fab favorites. Seems TBD members really get emotionally attached to some; there is a reason Doug Whaley is now in the XFL!

 

Championships aren't all built by setting the world on fire.  They depend upon having a bunch of guys who are good to very good players.

 

I don't think this is about "fan favorites" or "emotional attachment".  It's about strategy and tactics.

 

McDermott and Beane were hired on the premise that the strategy of a tear-down-and-rebuild was required for long term success. 

 

In addition to moving on from high-profile players who were struggling to see the field such as Sammy Watkins, Marcel Dareus, or Cordy Glenn, or who wanted a payday such as Gilmore, their tactics were to move on from homegrown, moderately priced talent they assessed as "JAG" or who didn't "fit the scheme" (such as Darby, Woods, Goodwin, Ragland, Zach Brown, etc).

 

Time will tell whether or not their strategy and their tactics will pay off.  Some of us are enthused and hopeful.  Others of us are more cautious, because we see "warning signs" in the talent (or lack thereof) that Beane brought in.

 

It's no surprise that many of the players we moved on from are contributing on teams who played this past weekend.  It's also no surprise that some of the players who struggled to see the field with us such as Glenn, had their surgery, healed up, and played well.  Others are more of a mixed-bag, like Dareus who contributed last year when the team was winning and made "business decisions" again this year.

 

Then when you factor in players the previous regime moved on from because they weren't a "scheme fit" for previous coaches like Nigel Bradham or Chris Hogan, and, well, it's frustrating when we lack depth or enough talent at many of the positions they play. 

Anyway, Reed has a point that if you put together a team of ex-Bills in the league, you could have a pretty good team - except at perhaps the most important position (QB).

And if the Bills are in fact going to achieve long-term success, they need to be able to identify the talented players and emerging talents on their team and hang on to them, not let them move on just as they're coming into their own. 

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

What is the news about Reich that the OP is referring to???

 

I think the news that several prominent former players lobbied for the team to consider Frank Reich as HC, I believe after Marrone walked.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Championships aren't all built by setting the world on fire.  They depend upon having a bunch of guys who are good to very good players.

 

I don't think this is about "fan favorites" or "emotional attachment".  It's about strategy and tactics.

 

McDermott and Beane were hired on the premise that the strategy of a tear-down-and-rebuild was required for long term success. 

 

In addition to moving on from high-profile players who were struggling to see the field such as Sammy Watkins, Marcel Dareus, or Cordy Glenn, or who wanted a payday such as Gilmore, their tactics were to move on from homegrown, moderately priced talent they assessed as "JAG" or who didn't "fit the scheme" (such as Darby, Woods, Goodwin, Ragland, Zach Brown, etc).

 

Time will tell whether or not their strategy and their tactics will pay off.  Some of us are enthused and hopeful.  Others of us are more cautious, because we see "warning signs" in the talent (or lack thereof) that Beane brought in.

 

It's no surprise that many of the players we moved on from are contributing on teams who played this past weekend.  It's also no surprise that some of the players who struggled to see the field with us such as Glenn, had their surgery, healed up, and played well.  Others are more of a mixed-bag, like Dareus who contributed last year when the team was winning and made "business decisions" again this year.

 

Then when you factor in players the previous regime moved on from because they weren't a "scheme fit" for previous coaches like Nigel Bradham or Chris Hogan, and, well, it's frustrating when we lack depth or enough talent at many of the positions they play. 

Anyway, Reed has a point that if you put together a team of ex-Bills in the league, you could have a pretty good team - except at perhaps the most important position (QB).

And if the Bills are in fact going to achieve long-term success, they need to be able to identify the talented players and emerging talents on their team and hang on to them, not let them move on just as they're coming into their own. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the news that several prominent former players lobbied for the team to consider Frank Reich as HC, I believe after Marrone walked.

Thanks Hap, great post!  Showing why both sides have merit in this discussion. This is even in the running for "of the day" consideration--I'll let you know how it turns out! 

[Doc]

10 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

If we're talking Bills in general (like I am) there's Jason Peters.

 

That was 10 year ago.  A different ownership and regime entirely. 

 

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

agree to disagree.

 

as I see it, Sammy is a stallion.  You need stallions to win. 

 

i wouldn't mind dumping him if we had someone better or could get someone better. 

 

2 years later and we're still waiting.  We still don't have anyone 1/2 as good even if Sammy only plays 8 games per.

 

i don't get this attitude that if a dude's not Jerry Rice we'd rather just suck along with the likes of Deonte Thompson, McKenzie, Zay, Felton, and Ray Ray.  Which one of these guys or any Bills WR the last 2 years start for any of the team that played this weekend?  How many would even make their taxi squad?

 

Sammy was the second most productive WR on a team that advanced to AFC Championship game today.  Top guy had 10 more yards.

 

But he's not good enough for the Bills?  OK.

 

An injured stallion who can't run on race day doesn't mean much.  And judging by the fact that he was healthy last year and still couldn't even crack 1,000 yards on a pass-happy offense says the Bills made the correct decision in trading him for a 2nd rounder.

 

As for having someone 1/2 as good or better, looks like they already do: Foster.

[TheBeane]

21 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

He's just saying what many of us are thinking. They made the decision to go full rebuild so we've dealt with many growing pains.

 

This season is make or break for McBeane IMO. They drafted their QB who will be in his second season in the same system and have 90 mil in cap space. Hope and excuses will run dry if next season is anything like 2018. 

 

There is always the injury bug excuse!

[BillsfaninChicago]

21 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Tweets by former Bills hold as much sway as tweets by TBD members 

Thurman’s “Big Splash” tweet comes to mind.

[reddogblitz]

 

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

That was 10 year ago.  A different ownership and regime entirely. 

 

 

Yes, but it is a disturbing trend which continues to this day was kindof my point.  Back then we dumped a guy that was LT on SB team last year back then and with this group we dumped more guys that are on SB teams.

 

Again, how can these winning teams win with these guys when we decided they aren't good enough or cost too much (yet the other guys can pay them)?

 

We seem to keep making the same mistakes.

 

In 2014 - 2016 we had 3 WRs (Watkins, Woods, Hogan) on our squad that will be playing in the conference championship game this weekend and our WR squad is lame.  We also had Harvin.  We also had a top 1/3 of the league in scoring offense.

 

This team will never have a good offense or a good QB until we get serious about the WR (and TE) position.  Hoping that happens this off season.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by reddogblitz

[Doc]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

Yes, but it is a disturbing trend which continues to this day was kindof my point.  Back then we dumped a guy that was LT on SB team last year back then and with this group we dumped more guys that are on SB teams.

 

Again, how can these winning teams win with these guys when we decided they aren't good enough or cost too much (yet the other guys can pay them)?

 

We seem to keep making the same mistakes.

 

In 2014 - 2016 we had 3 WRs (Watkins, Woods, Hogan) on our squad that will be playing in the conference championship game this weekend and our WR squad is lame.  We also had Harvin.  We also had a top 1/3 of the league in scoring offense.

 

This team will never have a good offense or a good QB until we get serious about the WR (and TE) position.  Hoping that happens this off season.

 

There are many reasons why there are Bills players on other teams.  One major one is cap mismanagement.  Others are poor attitude, poor performance, injury issues or poor scheme fit and getting rid of these guys.

 

As for WR specifically, Hogan is JAG and no one gave a ***** about him until the Cheaters came calling, not unlike Gillislee (another JAG) and wouldn't have made much of a difference to the receiving corps.  Watkins falls under poor attitude/performance/injury and he was scheduled to be paid a ton the following (this) year and the Bills weren't going to pay it because he didn't merit it and figured they'd get something for him while they could.  Woods got a better opportunity elsewhere and wasn't coming back.  They were right about Sammy, could do nothing about Woods, and Hogan is no one to even talk about. 

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

If we're talking Bills in general (like I am) there's Jason Peters.

 

Saw him yesterday.  Holding a red cape and spinning around for some reason, while shouting “OLÉ!”.  

[formerlyofCtown]

On 1/13/2019 at 1:28 PM, H2o said:

Nope, but there would have been more cocaine and hookers to go around. 

From what I heard they had plenty of their own.

15 hours ago, #34fan said:

It's a fair assessment.  Hogan, Ragland, Woods, Watkins, Peters, Bradham… Then there's coaching talent like Reich, Schwartz and Lynn that also managed to get away and do better for themselves...  At this rate, Josh Allen will be backing up Dak Prescott for the cowboys next super bowl run.

If Josh Allen went to Dallas then Dak wouldnt be starting for long.

[formerlyofCtown]

13 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

agree to disagree.

 

as I see it, Sammy is a stallion.  You need stallions to win. 

 

i wouldn't mind dumping him if we had someone better or could get someone better. 

 

2 years later and we're still waiting.  We still don't have anyone 1/2 as good even if Sammy only plays 8 games per.

 

i don't get this attitude that if a dude's not Jerry Rice we'd rather just suck along with the likes of Deonte Thompson, McKenzie, Zay, Felton, and Ray Ray.  Which one of these guys or any Bills WR the last 2 years start for any of the team that played this weekend?  How many would even make their taxi squad?

 

Sammy was the second most productive WR on a team that advanced to AFC Championship game today.  Top guy had 10 more yards.

 

But he's not good enough for the Bills?  OK.

He cant be a Stallion.  If a stallion breakes its foot you put it down.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Hogan is JAG and no one gave a ***** about him until the Cheaters came calling,

 

Tom Brady is JAG and no one gave a ***** about him until the Cheaters came calling,

 

Billy Bellyache, the greatest football mind since Amos Alonzo Stagg (or so I hear) says he IS good enough.

 

Who am I supposed to believe, him, or Doc?

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Tom Brady is JAG and no one gave a ***** about him until the Cheaters came calling,

 

Billy Bellyache, the greatest football mind since Amos Alonzo Stagg (or so I hear) says he IS good enough.

 

Who am I supposed to believe, him, or Doc?

 

The Cheaters got lucky with Brady.  Had they had any inkling, they wouldn't have passed him even once, never mind 6 times.

 

And Hogan sticks around because he's white.

[stinky finger]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:02 PM, NewEra said:

Who is he even talking about?  Sammy?  Dude missed 1-2 the season and they had the best record in the AFC.  Shows how great HE is.  Nice fumble resterday . Darby? No, he’s hurt.  Dareus?  No, his defense got worse with him.  

 

Yep, those guys.

 

The guys that never sniffed the playoffs while in Buffalo. 

 

Yes, those guys.

[without a drought]

On 1/13/2019 at 1:44 PM, MJS said:

Pretty sure there are more former Bills out of the playoffs than in.

I'm almost positive that there are more former Bills in the playoffs this year than there are current Bills.