Rams & Chiefs Offensive Lines

[JohnC]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I haven't seen anyone post otherwise.

 

 

You stick with your running back draft priority and I will stick with my OL priority in this draft. For us, in this draft,  the line position should take preference over the back preference. Maybe not to you but to me it is obvious and basic. 

[Zerovoltz]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:10 AM, Jerome007 said:

While I think I'm quite clear the OLine matters a LOT or I would not have started this thread, it's like for any other positions: all 32 teams are vying for top guys. They are not lined up in a shelf somewhere just ready to be signed. Some teams are already settled in that area, some have no cap space, etc. So in that sense the Bills are poised to get some, as Beane as publicly said it is the priority this offseason, and finally the Bills have cap space to play with. But for all his good intentions, it could happen that Beane doesn't sign much big names on the OLine nor draft anyone good. They have to be available and sign here instead of with another team! Hopefully, he can solve this issue as what a difference it would make! 

 

I've said this in another thread but Laurent Duvernay-Tardif (RG) of the Chiefs could be available for a trade. He has missed close to 10 games with a broken leg. He could have played yesterday but he didn't. He's paid 8M per season and obviously his much cheaper replacement has been doing the job. He'd be much closer to home playing with the Bills and has so many side projects that it could matter.

 

For Bills fans interested in Morse, Tardiff etc.

 

KC has a good line when all are healthy or 4 of 5 it’s still good.  We had a period toward the end of the year when we were without both starting guards and it was clear that we couldn’t scheme around TWO backups.  Vs the Colts, we got Cam Erving back, and so that just left one backup starting.  We are fine in that scenario.  

 

What that hat means to the Bills -

 

1.  Mitch Morse will be a free agent.  He is a VERY GOOD center.  He has had some health issues and missed some big chunks of time here and there.  KC signed his backup to an extension a few weeks ago further indicating Morse won’t be around next year.  Rieter, the backup, played well when Mitch was out.  If you think he can stay healthy, you are getting a solid solid player.  

 

2.  LDT would be a trade candidate if we were in cap he’ll, but we aren’t.  He is better than the backup.  I wouldn’t suspect he’d be available in a trade.

[Prickly Pete]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

 

If you seriously want to say that Hilton and Ebron aren't playmakers, there's nothing more to discuss.  The Colts' OL played well against the Texans and didn't against the Chefs.  Furthermore, it looked to me like Luck was either fatigued, injured or rattled during the Chefs game as his passes were off-target.

 

Nonsense.

Doesn't matter if Luck was fatigued, the Wrs caught the ball. But in EITHER game, never managed to make anything happen on their own. 

 

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

For Bills fans interested in Morse, Tardiff etc.

 

KC has a good line when all are healthy or 4 of 5 it’s still good.  We had a period toward the end of the year when we were without both starting guards and it was clear that we couldn’t scheme around TWO backups.  Vs the Colts, we got Cam Erving back, and so that just left one backup starting.  We are fine in that scenario.  

 

What that hat means to the Bills -

 

1.  Mitch Morse will be a free agent.  He is a VERY GOOD center.  He has had some health issues and missed some big chunks of time here and there.  KC signed his backup to an extension a few weeks ago further indicating Morse won’t be around next year.  Rieter, the backup, played well when Mitch was out.  If you think he can stay healthy, you are getting a solid solid player.  

 

2.  LDT would be a trade candidate if we were in cap he’ll, but we aren’t.  He is better than the backup.  I wouldn’t suspect he’d be available in a trade.

 

Morse is going to get PAID in FA.  Paradis will very likely be going back to Denver (unless he really wants out), so Morse stands to be the only center on the FA market--a position that saw guys like Ryan Jensen and Weston Richburg get $9-10M AAV last offseason.  Morse will probably get $11-12M AAV from someone that needs a center.

 

LDT ain't goin' nowhere--the time to trade for a Chiefs' guard was last pre-season when they moved Ehinger for a song.

[BillsMafia13]

45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Ok there you go!  They could cheer for that LT.  You could hear them in the stands I bet:  "go Joe!  Cover that blind side and force the D to sack the QB from the other side!".

 

And I've given other examples of this in the past (Dolphins picked Jake Long over Matt Ryan!).

 

The last sentence I bolded: no, I'm not saying that either (you're struggling with this I can see!).  The reason the Browns were terrible is that they drafted poorly.  No LT can have the impact that a guy like AP can have.  Or Matt Ryan.  It's just that simple. 

 

So, before you make up another opinion of mine to argue against, I'll say this:  Joe Thomas was the greatest LT of all time and will forever remain so, as far as anyone can actually tell.

Wow I just dont actually believe you're so adamant about this.  Ill say, AP is the best rb of the last 15 or so years and is an amazing rb.  But you're just playing woulda, coulda, shoulda, here.   AP had 1 (?) playoff win in his tenure in Minn, if you think his impact would have brought the Browns any better you're a fool.  AP even had a real org to build around him and he still didnt win anything, the browns are perpetually the dumbest team in sports. But keep preaching how the messiah peterson single-handedly shifted the playoff picture year in and year out.  

     For the record, if I knew the future, I would still have taken JT at that pick

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

Nonsense.

Doesn't matter if Luck was fatigued, the Wrs caught the ball. But in EITHER game, never managed to make anything happen on their own. 

 

Nonsense. 

If Luck isn't putting the ball in positions where players can get the ball, much less YAC...they won't be able to make plays/get YAC.  To my eye, his shoulder (still) isn't 100%.

[Prickly Pete]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Nonsense. 

If Luck isn't putting the ball in positions where players can get the ball, much less YAC...they won't be able to make plays/get YAC.  To my eye, his shoulder (still) isn't 100%.

 

 

 

It was the same in both games.

 

Not even once did they make anything happen on their own. There are plenty of plays where they even have some space. 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BillsMafia13 said:

Wow I just dont actually believe you're so adamant about this.  Ill say, AP is the best rb of the last 15 or so years and is an amazing rb.  But you're just playing woulda, coulda, shoulda, here.   AP had 1 (?) playoff win in his tenure in Minn, if you think his impact would have brought the Browns any better you're a fool.  AP even had a real org to build around him and he still didnt win anything, the browns are perpetually the dumbest team in sports. But keep preaching how the messiah peterson single-handedly shifted the playoff picture year in and year out.  

     For the record, if I knew the future, I would still have taken JT at that pick

 

Minny was a "real organization"?  Look who they had behind Center all those years.  Best was one year with a near dead Favre.  AP helped them get to the playoffs with Gus Frerotte, Christian Ponder and Teddy Bridgewater.  You don't think the Browns fans look at that as pretty good outcome??

 

Do you really think the Browns offense would not have benefitted in a similar way if they had drafted AP instead of Thomas?  Maybe not playoffs, but more points, more wins.

 

You know......something to (actually) cheer about?  If you say no,  I just don't believe you.

 

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Nonsense. 

If Luck isn't putting the ball in positions where players can get the ball, much less YAC...they won't be able to make plays/get YAC.  To my eye, his shoulder (still) isn't 100%.

 

 

It suddenly got to less than 100% before kickoff??

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It suddenly got to less than 100% before kickoff??

 

Not sure when (or if, which is why I said earlier "fatigued, injured or rattled").

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Not sure when (or if, which is why I said earlier "fatigued, injured or rattled").

 

Fatigued? Injured?  the guy was playing MVP candidate ball until Sunday.

 

It's rattled..

2 hours ago, Doc said:

AP has been in the league for 11 seasons.  He's made the post-season 4 times (all others were non-winning seasons), all with the Vikings, and they lost in the first game 3 times.  Never mind that he's a child beater, eh WEO? 

 

 

My thoughts on him being less than a man are well known.  But not the point of this discussion.  Stay focused doc!

 

But as I pointed out in another post, look who the Vikings were sticking behind Center for AP's tenure there.  Yet they still made the playoffs 4 times.  You don't think that Browns fans would take that instead of a single nice day they will have at Thomas's HOF induction speech?  Because that's all they will have to show for that pick.

[Nihilarian]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:56 AM, hemma said:

Rams 1 - 2 punch had 48 rushes vs 28 attempted passes.

Cowboys just couldn't stop it.

 

I hope we start seeing news about OL Coach interviews soon.

The lack of hiring for WR, O line and ST coaches makes me think that the Bills are waiting until the playoffs are over for some reason

 

On 1/13/2019 at 10:01 AM, BillsPride12 said:

Yeah and as much as a I love Jim, Andre, Thurman etc....it's funny how years later they still get all the glory but whenever I watch old highlights from the 90s Bills games I am always blown away by how awesome our O-line was back then.  Without a doubt having a solid line is one of the key ingredients to becoming a contender. 

I have pics from back then and the holes Thurman ran through you could drive a car through. He made his living off the cutback though.

 

The Bills ran a run scheme called the "counter trey" which is an old Redskins idea that the linemen take one step one way and then make the play the other way. This would cause the defenders to freeze for a split second as they were unsure which way the play was going. 

 

Anyway, It's my hope that the Bills draft a quality center again like Eric Wood and perhaps a top OG or two too. 

 

 

[Trogdor]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:15 AM, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Daryl Williams-RT Panthers

Garrett Bradbury-C NCST

Tytus Howard-LT Alabama St

 

Hakeem Butler-WR Iowa State

Andy Isabella-WR UMASS

Chris Conley-WR Chiefs

 

Donald Parham-TE Stetson

Maxx Williams-TE Ravens

 

My biggest hope is LT and then move Dawkins inside. They need at least 1 more guard on top of C and RT.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Fatigued? Injured?  the guy was playing MVP candidate ball until Sunday.

 

It's rattled..

 

 

My thoughts on him being less than a man are well known.  But not the point of this discussion.  Stay focused doc!

 

But as I pointed out in another post, look who the Vikings were sticking behind Center for AP's tenure there.  Yet they still made the playoffs 4 times.  You don't think that Browns fans would take that instead of a single nice day they will have at Thomas's HOF induction speech?  Because that's all they will have to show for that pick.

 

Fatigue sets-in as the season wears on.  And for a guy who missed a whole season because of an injury to his throwing shoulder...

 

I am totally focused WEO.  AP had some good OL's in Minny but crappy QB's.  And still the Vikings barely went anywhere.  How much do you think he would have helped the inept Browns who pretty much had a good LT and not much else?  Unless you think AP would have drafted a franchise QB for them.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Fatigue sets-in as the season wears on.  And for a guy who missed a whole season because of an injury to his throwing shoulder...

 

I am totally focused WEO.  AP had some good OL's in Minny but crappy QB's.  And still the Vikings barely went anywhere.  How much do you think he would have helped the inept Browns who pretty much had a good LT and not much else?  Unless you think AP would have drafted a franchise QB for them.

 

 

I imagine, as in Minny (who's O-line had a single Pro Bowler for one year--the 400 lb McKinnie), he would have helped them to a winning record, possibly the playoffs. He didn't need to draft his own QB in Minny.

 

Probably would have done more in Cleveland than the HOF anchor of an O-line that gave up 66 sacks in a year...

Edited January 15, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I imagine, as in Minny (who's O-line had a single Pro Bowler for one year--the 400 lb McKinnie), he would have helped them to a winning record, possibly the playoffs. He didn't need to draft his own QB in Minny.

 

Probably would have done more than the HOF anchor of an O-line that gave up 66 sacks in a year...

 

You can imagine anything you'd like.  The Browns' problems ran far deeper than just taking Thomas over AP, who again has barely helped take his teams to the playoffs, much less win once they got there.  Drafting Thomas was about the only thing they did right.  But just like Thomas can't do it alone, neither can AP.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You can imagine anything you'd like.  The Browns' problems ran far deeper than just taking Thomas over AP, who again has barely helped take his teams to the playoffs, much less win once they got there.  Drafting Thomas was about the only thing they did right.  But just like Thomas can't do it alone, neither can AP.

 

 

LOL now it's "barely helps take his team to the playoffs".  Again, the Browns fans would kill for that.  And that's why taking Thomas over AP was not "right".  It's not even debatable.  

 

Once in a generation playmaker vs. a guy who watched a dozen QBs get sacked mercilessly on the other side of the line for 10 years. Thomas's career can be summed up as: "he didn't give up many of those many dozens of sacks".   That's a great franchise accomplishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

LOL now it's "barely helps take his team to the playoffs".  Again, the Browns fans would kill for that.  And that's why taking Thomas over AP was not "right".  It's not even debatable.  

 

Once in a generation playmaker vs. a guy who watched a dozen QBs get sacked mercilessly on the other side of the line for 10 years. Thomas's career can be summed up as: "he didn't give up many of those many dozens of sacks".   That's a great franchise accomplishment.

 

Oh boy, the Browns might have made 1 playoff appearance with AP!  But at least JT didn't beat his kid.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Oh boy, the Browns might have made 1 playoff appearance with AP!  But at least JT didn't beat his kid.

 

 

Or his girlfriends.

 

 

But that's not the discussion here.  

[Doc]

The Browns would have been just as well-served drafting Thomas in 2007 and Ray Rice or Matt Forte the following year.

 

But again, the Browns signed Jamal Lewis prior to the draft so they weren't going to draft AP.  They probably wouldn't have drafted Rice or Forte the following year considering Lewis ran for 1,300 yards.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

The Browns would have been just as well-served drafting Thomas in 2007 and Ray Rice or Matt Forte the following year.

 

But again, the Browns signed Jamal Lewis prior to the draft so they weren't going to draft AP.  They probably wouldn't have drafted Rice or Forte the following year considering Lewis ran for 1,300 yards.

 

 

Rice, Forte and Lewis are all gone.  

 

 

This season, AP went to the Skins, parked his car, and ran for another 1000+ yards.

 

Joe Thomas has lost 100 lbs and is doing podcasts.