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Foles/Wentz article with interesting general insights


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20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Does anyone think Carson Wentz is rooting for the Eagles to lose?  It’s a weird situation and the more Foles wins, the weirder it gets. 

 

Does Wentz want them to lose? I very much doubt that. He will be a starting QB no matter what, somewhere.

20 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

When the Eagles lose today and Foles looks ordinary, all the talk will stop & Foles will be looking for next season elsewhere.  Most likely in this order: Giants, Jaguars, Dolphins or Redskins.

 

He can look ordinary and he will still be highly sought after.....even by the Eagles.

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21 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Does anyone think Carson Wentz is rooting for the Eagles to lose?  It’s a weird situation and the more Foles wins, the weirder it gets. 

nah. For as much as they see each other and fight for each other during the season and to see payers out on the field when maybe they were physically beat, I can't believe he would do that. Even internally. As to the OP's original thoughts, I agree. Maybe Wetnz should have a sit down in the offseason and tell coach, " I just want to win, whatever it takes. I don't care if you simplify the game plan. Just win , baby"!!!  Wentz might have a healthier season if they simplify things.

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I think people are equating "wanting them to lose" with actively, consciously watching the game and hoping his teammates fail. The human psyche is a bit more complex. While I'm sure he doesn't have any knived out Foles' dolls, there's most likely a small part of him that doesn't want to watch yet another Eagles Superbowl from the sidelines.

 

The human brain can walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

You think Tyrod wanted Peterman to light it up against the Chargers? By all accounts, Tyrod is a high character guy much like Wentz. Doesn't make them infallible.

Edited by LSHMEAB
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20 hours ago, BillsVet said:

This reminds me somewhat of a few coaches that have gone with what they have rather than drastically change a roster or personnel in an area (offense or defense) to suit their style.  Wade wasn't a great HC in Dallas, but he knows defense and those that he worked with in Denver were fantastic this last time around.  He didn't impose a 3-4, but used DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller along with a talented secondary quite effectively.  Or, Mike Tomlin upon going from Minnesota's Tampa 2 as DC to being Pittsburgh's HC that already had a 3-4 going.  He didn't change things. 

 

Counter that with McCoach who rebuilt the defense, has traded key personnel, and made sure the rebuild would take at least 3 years to complete.  

 

In a perfect world, I'd want a HC and coordinators who are flexible and use the talent they are presented with rather than do a complete tear-off.  That didn't happen in Buffalo.  Yet, we're going to see what McBeane do in off-season year 3 now that they've got their way.  

 

McDermott had to tear it down. Over paid lazy players, divas, players sleeping during meetings. Rex destroyed the will and buildness to our team. 

 

 

Edited by Buffalo Bills Fan
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On 1/13/2019 at 2:15 PM, reddogblitz said:

if I'm the Eagles i go with Foles and park Wentz on the bench.  He has 2 or 3 years left on his contract, Is relatively cheap, and it's good to have a good backup.

 

 

Interesting.   Why not trade Wentz  then for some draft capital?

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The drawback with Foles and the simplified play-calling is that defenses catch up with that pretty quick and given Foles' limitations, they don't have a whole lot of flexibility to switch up the play-calls. I think this is why he's always fizzled out when he's a full-time starter. With Wentz, they have more flexibility so once defenses catch onto what they're doing, Pederson has the ability to switch things up because Wentz can handle it better than Foles. 

 

Overall you just gotta scheme to the strengths of your players. Can't be like Rex where you force the scheme onto players who aren't necessarily suited for it. That's an old school way of doing things and I think it's fading out of the league at this point. Coaches are aware that they need to design plays based off what their players do best. You do that first and then you gradually expand the playbook to things that the player has to improve upon in order to be a complete player. Coaches also need to recognize when it's time to throw more at them and when it's time to scale it back some. I think Daboll did alright with Josh this year and without draft prep this off-season, the kid should have plenty of time to get more experienced on his own, during OTAs, minicamp, training camp, etc. 

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On 1/13/2019 at 2:15 PM, reddogblitz said:

if I'm the Eagles i go with Foles and park Wentz on the bench.  He has 2 or 3 years left on his contract, Is relatively cheap, and it's good to have a good backup.

 

How do they go about keeping him?  Like whats the roster strategy with keeping Foles?  He has a mutual option for 20 million - and he can walk and get more than 20 guaranteed very easily.  If you do franchise him or persuade to keep him on a deal, you either lock up a ton of cap in year 1, or are making a long term commit to Foles - thus forcing you to trade wentz.

 

Wentz is also in year 4 of his deal - his 5th year option comes in 2020 so you still have to make the decision relatively soon.  

 

Philly is also projected 7 mil over the cap with foles option as it stands.  

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On 1/12/2019 at 2:16 PM, LSHMEAB said:

One would have to wonder if that formula is sustainable or if the superior player/more complex scheme has more staying power. In the small sample size with the Bills, you could point to Barkley's one game with a dumbed down playbook/inferior player as being effective. Maybe DA just sucks and his performances don't factor in. It seems as though you're suggesting Daboll simplify the playbook for Allen. Not quite sure how I feel about that over the long haul. I would personally stick with Wentz and the expanded playbook, but it's an interesting debate.

 

My thoughts exactly.  In the long run, simpler schemes and players with limited talent will probably be much easier for defenses to scheme against.

 

Nick Foles has played very well in the postseason over the last two seasons.  But I think his success has been AMPLIFIED because of the stage.  The media tends to overly hype a player who WON in a playoff game or a Super Bowl.  Even though it's really a team accomplishment.  But I have my doubts that Foles can carry a franchise year-in, year-out for the next decade plus.

 

Carson Wentz is clearly the superior player, both from a talent perspective and from a statistical evaluation.  He's also younger and still has room to grow.  Not to mention, he's going to be cheaper on the salary cap for the next two seasons.

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 2:15 PM, reddogblitz said:

if I'm the Eagles i go with Foles and park Wentz on the bench.  He has 2 or 3 years left on his contract, Is relatively cheap, and it's good to have a good backup.

 

The Eagles have to shed salary and Foles is making $20 mil next year.

 

Hes done in Philly

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10 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Nick Foles has played very well in the postseason over the last two seasons.  But I think his success has been AMPLIFIED because of the stage.  The media tends to overly hype a player who WON in a playoff game or a Super Bowl.  Even though it's really a team accomplishment.  But I have my doubts that Foles can carry a franchise year-in, year-out for the next decade plus.

 

 

 

 

The Eagles should have lost to the Bears.  Foles QB rating for the Bears game was 77 and for the Saints game was 65.  That’s playing very well ?

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Foles will likely command $25M+/yr this offseason.  Even if he gives the Eagles a discount (he does love it there), we're still talking at least $20M/yr.  

Wentz counts for $8.5M this year, and the Eagles have a team option for 2020 that pays him the average of the top 10 QB salaries (probably ~$30M).

Wentz is cheaper in the short term, but maybe not THAT much cheaper.  

 

I'd be more concerned about Wentz's injuries, particularly the fractured vertebra(e).  I don't know how other QBs have fared with that, but it wasn't good for Romo's career.

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On 1/12/2019 at 2:22 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Does anyone think Carson Wentz is rooting for the Eagles to lose?  It’s a weird situation and the more Foles wins, the weirder it gets. 

 

 

I hadn't really thought much about it until the end of the game.

 

Wentz went up to Foles and hugged him like........."sorry you lost, buddy".

 

I mean, Wentzy.........you lost too, right?

 

That seemed like a weird thing to do...........it's not like Foles made a bad play but there he was perhaps somewhat disingenuously consoling him like Foles blew it.

 

Foles had that game.    I am not sure why they rushed that play before the two minute warning but it was a good throw and Jeffrey just Alshon'd it.

Edited by BADOLBILZ
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