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matter2003

Vance Jospeh named DC in Arizona...how???

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15 hours ago, matter2003 said:

In a league where results matter more than anything else, how does it not seem to matter with him?

 

His defense sucked in Miami and then somehow he turns that into a promotion to a HC in Denver...his team sucked in Denver both years he was there and the defense got worse, and now he is rewarded again by getting another DC job??

 

When do results start mattering for him??

 

 

Daboll

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12 hours ago, matter2003 said:

An excellent job? His defense finished near the bottom in every statistical category...

You mean the guy who got almost 25 PPG from this offense over the last 7 games of the season?  Not the best performance in the NFL but pretty damn good considering what we had to work with...

 

Maybe you should actually be aware of the facts before you post silliness

Um ... I think you missed my point.

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31 minutes ago, vincec said:

Daboll

25 PPG and an improving offense over his 7 last games with little to work with...

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16 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I don't know. They apparently like him a lot more than you do.

 

Teams make dumb mistakes all the time. Fans have misinformed opinions all the time. Let's revisit which is the case in a year.

 

 

LOL

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16 hours ago, matter2003 said:

In a league where results matter more than anything else, how does it not seem to matter with him?

 

His defense sucked in Miami and then somehow he turns that into a promotion to a HC in Denver...his team sucked in Denver both years he was there and the defense got worse, and now he is rewarded again by getting another DC job??

 

When do results start mattering for him??

 

 

Actually, the relatively talentless Miami D in 2016 finished 19th in defensive DVOA, the 2017 Broncos D finished 10th, and the 2018 Denver D finished 5th. The common ingredient in these rankings is talent and the lack thereof, which - to repeat myself - is something we fans factor in way too infrequently when assessing coaches. Statistically, the Bills offense was better in 2017 than 2018, but no one in their right mind would argue that Dennison did a better job than Daboll.

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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Actually, the relatively talentless Miami D in 2016 finished 19th in defensive DVOA, the 2017 Broncos D finished 10th, and the 2018 Denver D finished 5th. The common ingredient in these rankings is talent and the lack thereof, which - to repeat myself - is something we fans factor in way too infrequently when assessing coaches. Statistically, the Bills offense was better in 2017 than 2018, but no one in their right mind would argue that Dennison did a better job than Daboll.

 

In Denver he had Von Miller...couldnt have been that lacking for talent.

 

As for Miami they allowed 382 yards and 24 points a game. They sucked.

Edited by matter2003

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14 hours ago, matter2003 said:

An excellent job? His defense finished near the bottom in every statistical category...

You mean the guy who got almost 25 PPG from this offense over the last 7 games of the season?  Not the best performance in the NFL but pretty damn good considering what we had to work with...

 

Maybe you should actually be aware of the facts before you post silliness

You missed the point. Daboll's offenses in the NFL have not been historically that good. And yet he keeps getting OC jobs. Its the same thing. Only of course Daboll is white and now on the Bills staff and Joseph is black and not a Bills hire.  The analogy is spot on. 

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1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

You missed the point. Daboll's offenses in the NFL have not been historically that good. And yet he keeps getting OC jobs. Its the same thing. Only of course Daboll is white and now on the Bills staff and Joseph is black and not a Bills hire.  The analogy is spot on. 

 

Other than 2 of the best coaches in history wanting him to be their OC...Saban and Bellichick.

 

Obviously they see something you dont.

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21 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Other than 2 of the best coaches in history wanting him to be their OC...Saban and Bellichick.

 

Obviously they see something you dont.

In Joseph's one season as a DC, his unit ranked 18th. Brian Daboll, in 4 stints, has never had an offense that ranked in the top 20.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

In Joseph's one season as a DC, his unit ranked 18th. Brian Daboll, in 4 stints, has never had an offense that ranked in the top 20.

 

 

It’s amazing how many excuses are made for our guys but aren’t made for Other teams coaches.  I think Denver had the #3 defense last year.  If Brian Daboll has the #3 offense at any point in his career, I’m be 100% fine with him.

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s amazing how many excuses are made for our guys but aren’t made for Other teams coaches.  I think Denver had the #3 defense last year.  If Brian Daboll has the #3 offense at any point in his career, I’m be 100% fine with him.

I don't entirely understand the premise of the thread. He's been moderately successful on the defensive side of the ball, so there's nothing unusual about a team hiring him as a DC.

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3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't entirely understand the premise of the thread. He's been moderately successful on the defensive side of the ball, so there's nothing unusual about a team hiring him as a DC.

Plus if I’m a first time head coach, I’d like a former head coach around to help out.  

 

Andu dont know if Joseph is a great coach.  But he got screwed by QBs”guru” Elway. 

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2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Plus if I’m a first time head coach, I’d like a former head coach around to help out.  

 

Andu dont know if Joseph is a great coach.  But he got screwed by QBs”guru” Elway. 

I wouldn't be happy if the Bills hired him as HC. The QB situation was a mess, but he's gonna have to earn another shot. I'd hardly be outraged if he was hired as a DC. He'll have to earn another shot at that. Meh. To each their own, right? I still don't get it.

Edited by LSHMEAB

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4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Actually, the relatively talentless Miami D in 2016 finished 19th in defensive DVOA, the 2017 Broncos D finished 10th, and the 2018 Denver D finished 5th. The common ingredient in these rankings is talent and the lack thereof, which - to repeat myself - is something we fans factor in way too infrequently when assessing coaches. Statistically, the Bills offense was better in 2017 than 2018, but no one in their right mind would argue that Dennison did a better job than Daboll.

Agreed. Not a bad hire at all for DC. The Broncos offense was putrid - in fact, clearly worse than the Bills post-Allen's return. But the defense held together even after some significant injuries. I kind of like what the Cards did here, pairing Kingsbury with Joseph. Who knows whether it'll work, but it sure beats the hell out of Denver's theory of Fangio + Kubiak (now with Kubiak gone)

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1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

In Joseph's one season as a DC, his unit ranked 18th. Brian Daboll, in 4 stints, has never had an offense that ranked in the top 20.

 

 

No his unit ranked 29th.  By the actual rankings.

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25 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Agreed. Not a bad hire at all for DC. The Broncos offense was putrid - in fact, clearly worse than the Bills post-Allen's return. But the defense held together even after some significant injuries. I kind of like what the Cards did here, pairing Kingsbury with Joseph. Who knows whether it'll work, but it sure beats the hell out of Denver's theory of Fangio + Kubiak (now with Kubiak gone)

 

...but Big Bad John knows all.....their defense had been reputable with Wade in charge, but he let him walk......their offense remains putrid.....lucky this guy has the Bowlen Family Luvfest to protect him....Yolo's buddy "Horseface" has an ego bigger than the Grand Canyon and it should say something when a close ally like Kubiak bails...AND good luck to Joseph BTW.........

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy

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8 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

No his unit ranked 29th.  By the actual rankings.

Based on DVOA, they were 18th. But based on yardage, that is correct. Daboll's first stint as an OC? DFL. As in 32ind in the NFL. Next stop: 29th. So he did in fact get to Joseph's level in stop number 2. He followed that up with offenses that ranked 22, 24, and 30. 

 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I wouldn't be happy if the Bills hired him as HC. The QB situation was a mess, but he's gonna have to earn another shot. I'd hardly be outraged if he was hired as a DC. He'll have to earn another shot at that. Meh. To each their own, right? I still don't get it.

Yeah, I won’t want him as a head coach either.  I think he is closer to McDermott than most Bills fans will ever admit though.  

 

Mans I hope SM becomes a legend here.  But if he does get fired, I have no doubts he will get another DC job too.

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3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I won’t want him as a head coach either.  I think he is closer to McDermott than most Bills fans will ever admit though.  

 

Mans I hope SM becomes a legend here.  But if he does get fired, I have no doubts he will get another DC job too.

 

..certainly agree.....look how many coordinators make the leap only to end up back in their original coordinator spot, performing admirably....sure there are many recycled retreads still hanging on in the league and a bunch of newbee promotions that start paying their HC dues in 2019......close to home, Wade and Schwartz come to mind......add in Whisenhunt, Bradley, perhaps Childress, etc.....jury is out on  Rivera, Marrone, Quinn, etc now.......stay tuned.........

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35 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Based on DVOA, they were 18th. But based on yardage, that is correct. Daboll's first stint as an OC? DFL. As in 32ind in the NFL. Next stop: 29th. So he did in fact get to Joseph's level in stop number 2. He followed that up with offenses that ranked 22, 24, and 30. 

 

 

 

 

Did you see the QBs he had to work with? Its amazing he didn't finish 32nd every year.

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1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

Did you see the QBs he had to work with? Its amazing he didn't finish 32nd every year.

Fair enough. Joseph is trash and Daboll is a genius. It's astounding that anyone would give Joseph a positional job, let alone DC.

 

 

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Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Fair enough. Joseph is trash and Daboll is a genius. It's astounding that anyone would give Joseph a positional job, let alone DC.

 

 

All I know is that when 2 of the best coaches in history want you as their OC you just be doing something right.

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Most coaches are only as good as the roster they inherit 

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16 hours ago, matter2003 said:

25 PPG and an improving offense over his 7 last games with little to work with...

Here is how his offenses have done with him as OC in the NFL:

2009, Cleveland: 29th out of 32

2010, Cleveland: 31th

2011, Miami: 20th

2012, Kansas City: 32nd

2018, Buffalo Bills: 30th

 

So here’s a guy who’s offenses have never finished better than 20th and were in the bottom 4 four times out of five, yet he keeps getting hired by team after team. Why? He knows people and they like him. It couldn’t be more obvious whether you like it or not.

 

 

Edited by vincec
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On 1/12/2019 at 10:03 AM, matter2003 said:

 

In Denver he had Von Miller...couldnt have been that lacking for talent.

 

As for Miami they allowed 382 yards and 24 points a game. They sucked.

You should familiarize yourself with DVOA. It's a markedly better method than simply using raw yards and points. As for Miller, you are repeating in different words what I actually said: the common ingredient being talent and the lack thereof. Denver is talented. That is my point. And they were the fifth best defense in football this season as measured by DVOA.

18 hours ago, vincec said:

Here is how his offenses have done with him as OC in the NFL:

2009, Cleveland: 29th out of 32

2010, Cleveland: 31th

2011, Miami: 20th

2012, Kansas City: 32nd

2018, Buffalo Bills: 30th

 

So here’s a guy who’s offenses have never finished better than 20th and were in the bottom 4 four times out of five, yet he keeps getting hired by team after team. Why? He knows people and they like him. It couldn’t be more obvious whether you like it or not.

 

 

Have you looked at the terrible qbs he had to work with in literally every one of his stops? Don't pass judgment on coaches without considering the players they have to work with.

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