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thebandit27

Just How Bad Was Buffalo's Run Game Aside from Josh Allen?

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1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Much love DtD ūüėć. There will always be a part of PetermanThrew5Picks in me. The loveable curmudgeon that drunkenly felt the need to create an account the second half of last year's Chargers game and spam the specter of organizational incompetence that brought a negative Peterman cloud to my character. That Chargers game will always be the pivotal disillusionment in my Bills fandom. A loss of innocence if you will.

 

(also to be the SaviorPete antogonist the world needed. LOOK AT ME NOW SAVIOR PETE!! If Peterman was Jesus than I was the Antichrist.)

 

but with Peterman finally gone I'm a changed man. I've faced trials and tribulations, an identity crisis and was a wayward soul until Barkley restored my faith in the Bills backup Quarterback position. I will take the mantle as board authority on backup Bills Quarterbacks.

 

I may not know much. I may speak authoritatively on things I know nothing about with absolutely no fact checking (facts are for nerds) But if I've learned anything.. I am obsessed with the backup Quarterback position apparently. And dangit if Matt Barkley didn't make me a more positive and healthy man.

 

I may always be PetermanThrew5Picks to some. But I'm a much more emotionally developed since those dark days.. I am.. BarkleyForGOATBackup.

 

question: HOW DO I CHANGE MY "VET/RFA/PS/PROSPECT" SLOGAN OR WHATEVER IT IS. I ACCIDENTALLY SET IT TO MY EXACT SAME NAME. I WANT TO BE A...

 

PRIMADONNA LOCKERROOM POISON HOLDING OUT FOR MORE PAPER

 

Outstanding!

 

Brother, honestly, we are in for some good times in 2019.

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New oline and oline coach will do the trick. Even if we put out the same stable of running backs we'll be fine. McCoy perhaps has lost a step, or perhaps not. In either case, we KNOW the bulk of the problem was with the oline.

 

And if McCoy has lost a step you take a committee approach. We've seen good stuff from Murphy and Ivory.

 

But I do expect we'll bring in some young blood to compete at RB.

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9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The truth is in your last paragraph.  No NFL team can recover from losing 3 veteran olineman in 1 season. Shady & Clay pretty much have aged out. They'll first have to evaluate which lineman left are worth salvaging. Dawkins is probably safe as a starter and maybe Mills as a backup RT. After that anything can happen.  Clay will be released this spring but I think McCoy is given 1 final year in Buffalo. Don't know what will happen with Ivory, Murphy and Ford? I can guarantee you we'll draft a RB.  I absolutely love the fact that JA can run. I just want him to tone it down and force himself to develop more pocket skills. The bottom line is everything starts with the OL.....

 

 

Well actually McD inherited a booming business in the backfield and the running game fell off a cliff under his HC'ing in 2017 while Incognito/Wood/Glenn were still with the team(I know Glenn missed time but Dawkins was quite solid in the run game in his stead).   

 

This year it just dropped down another half notch.

 

I've stated this many times........the league average ypc is 4.2.........McCoy averaged 3.9 in 2017.........that's VERY poor..........1.5 ypc less than in 2016.........this year he fell to 3.3.......that's disgustingly bad.   

 

 

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It was terrible. That's why I'm excited to see what JA can do with a good ground game. I feel like he did decent, all things given.. 

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The subtraction of Juan Castillo will instantly boost our ypc by .5, 

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I think three¬†things: the Bills, the Bills media and the fans need to ditch this notion that you ‚Äúhave to get the run game going‚ÄĚ. We waste more time on that idea.

 

We need to get more speed on the field at RB and actually call screen passes to that RB.

 

Stop ‚Äútrying to get to the edge‚ÄĚ. Watch today, defenses are too fast and you lose yards almost every time you do that.

 

Bonus, is running out of shotgun really all that great? 

Edited by Straight Hucklebuck

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20 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

When discussing the many factors that affected Josh Allen's ability to operate the offense, one of the ones I've often cited is just how utterly alone he was in producing offense for this team. I regularly cited the fact that he produced over 80% of the team's total offense in games he started, which was easily the most of any rookie QB, and was 2nd only to TB's QB combo in terms of offensive yardage produced by the QB over the course of the season. But one topic that hasn't gotten a deep dive is just how bad the running game was outside of the yards produced by Josh Allen, which is why I've created this thread.

 

Folks, the run game is a huge problem, and it needs to be fixed this offseason.

 

First, let's start with the raw numbers:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2018&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=RUSHING_AVERAGE_YARDS

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2018&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS

 

Do with them what you will, but I want to focus on the one number that I think tells most of the story: 4.2 YPC.  Is that really that bad, you ask? No, on the surface it isn't.  It's tied for 21st in the NFL, which is below-average, but not abysmal in any sense.  But here's the problem:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2018&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS

 

Not a single player ranking in the top 30 in the NFL in rushing yards...and, of course, there's the fact that Allen lead the team in rushing.

 

I'm not normally a huge fan of "if you remove his rushing yards" type analyses, but in this case, it's important to normalize the non-QB rushing yards across a large enough sample space in order to see just how much of a difference his contributions make to the numbers.  To do so, I took the total rushing numbers from teams whose QBs rushed for 300 or more yards and removed the QB's contributions to see the effect on YPC.  Here's what that looks like:

 

Team                   Rush Att             YDS                   QB                   Rush Att            YDS              Non-QB YPC

Baltimore              547                   2441              Jackson                147                 695                   4.37

Houston                472                   2021                Watson                99                   551                   3.94

Chicago                 468                  1938                Trubisky               68                   421                   3.79

Carolina                 416                  2136               Newton                  101                 488                  5.23

Jacksonville         416                   1723              Bortles                   58                   365                   3.79

Seattle                   534                   2560                Wilson                  67                  376                   4.68

Tennessee            454                   2023              Mariota                  64                  357                    4.27

Dallas                     439                  1963               Prescott                75                  305                    4.55

TB                           389                  1523            Winston/Fitz            85                  433                    3.59

Buffalo                  468                   1984              Allen                       89                 631                    3.57

 

Tampa Bay is the only team that even came close to having as bad a running game as Buffalo...and keep in mind that Buffalo has what most NFL observers would categorize as a solid group of backs, yet that YPC would rank dead last in the NFL if not for Josh Allen basically performing the role of lead back.

 

There's the data set...thoughts?

I hate it when people ask me a question and then answer it without giving me an opportunity to utter a sound. 

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With running QBs often number of yards obtained by RBs goes down but even if you limit comparison to those type of teams production was down.  It was down last year as well which points to OL coach issues.  He was signed before any OC was signed and that was an issue on entire offense I think.

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Allen basically did it on his own, which makes me itchy for Free Agency/Draft/Camp.

 

This is the 1st year, where 'Next Year!', actually makes sense.

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On 1/11/2019 at 12:12 PM, CommonCents said:

Revamp oline, Revamp the backfield. I don’t care what McCoy fans say, he is toast. If by some miracle he has another season over 4.5

it’s still better to be a year early than a year late. Get a stud in the middle of the draft. 

You can get a stud as a UDFA

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On 1/11/2019 at 7:59 PM, iinii said:

Shocked like a Monkey!

 

Peter Gabriel?

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24 minutes ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

 

Peter Gabriel?

Correct! We have a winner!

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21 minutes ago, iinii said:

Correct! We have a winner!

But, why? WTH does that crappy song have to do with the Bills run game? Weird.

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On 1/12/2019 at 8:02 AM, Cripple Creek said:

I hate it when people ask me a question and then answer it without giving me an opportunity to utter a sound. 

Why do you hate it? Because, the asker wishes to give his/her answer (opinion) before you.

 

Did I do it right? Yes. Yes I did.

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On 1/11/2019 at 6:59 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Well done missing the point of this thread. 

 

Hence the wording, "interesting point-of-note."  

 

Perhaps for your benefit I should have said "side note," maybe you'd have gotten the point then.  

 

I'll try to choose my words more carefully next time for your benefit.  

On 1/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Errrmmmmm....  methinks the point of this thread was to assess what the Bills run game was like independent of Allen.

You're looking for one of the threads about Allen ....down two flights, turn left, end of the hall.  

 

Errrmmmmm,  see the post before this one.  

 

But as long as you want to dwell on the rushing, what doe sit say about McBeane for utterly failing to recognize that Shady's performance could and likely would diminish rapidly while making no significant plans for replacing him?  

 

Nice way to continue to heap team needs onto a single offseason.  At the rate we're going perhaps they'll figure all this out by the time Allen's contract is up.  

 

Are we the only team in the league that has significant needs at every offensive position besides QB and one or maybe two spots on the OL?  

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4 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

Hence the wording, "interesting point-of-note."  

Perhaps for your benefit I should have said "side note," maybe you'd have gotten the point then.  

I'll try to choose my words more carefully next time for your benefit. 

 

It's of benefit to all readers to choose your words to convey your intended meaning.

 

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's of benefit to all readers to choose your words to convey your intended meaning.

 

 

Most appear to have gotten it.  

 

It's also of benefit to all readers to substantiate their opinions, and ROFLMAO if that typically happens.  About the best we get is the iconic "eye test."  LOL  

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Yes, the run game was awful all year. We must have been stopped at 2 yards or less on most of our running plays other than Allen scrambles. We need at least 3 new starters on the OL with 2 being vast improvements and we also need Dawkins and Teller to take the next step. Dawkins was a real disappointment this year. I was looking for him to take the next step and he didn't.

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Better interior play, more talent running the ball.  

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The only rb that could have had a good year behind the run blocking our o-line provided would have been Barry Sanders. I put it mostly on the horrible o-line, not the rb's. We'll see what next year brings. 

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5 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

Why do you hate it? Because, the asker wishes to give his/her answer (opinion) before you.

 

Did I do it right? Yes. Yes I did.

It was a joke. The thread title is axing a question, but the OP gave a very thorough and well reasoned analysis. Hence my jab. Why ax a question if you already know the answer.

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3 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

The only rb that could have had a good year behind the run blocking our o-line provided would have been Barry Sanders. I put it mostly on the horrible o-line, not the rb's. We'll see what next year brings. 

Our RBs were horrible. The Oline was horrible.  Both were problems. 

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1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

It was a joke. The thread title is axing a question, but the OP gave a very thorough and well reasoned analysis. Hence my jab. Why ax a question if you already know the answer.

My reply was also a joke.

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54 minutes ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

My reply was also a joke.

I'm not very good at this, am I?

 

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1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Our RBs were horrible. The Oline was horrible.  Both were problems. 

 

If an offensive line can’t open holes, there’s nothing for a RB to run through. 

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