BananaB Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Does anybody really think Mahomes would have the same success with the way Beane gutted our offense. This ***** is easy to say now but if Mahomes was such a sure thing coming out of college he would of went higher then 10 and definitely not behind Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I’m not 100% convinced that Mahomes develops into the same QB he was this season if he was in a different situation. Having Andy Reid and Matt Nagy, Alex Smith and a solid group of WR’s definitely helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: Not even Mahomes could elevate Clay to anywhere near Kelsey's performance. It sounds like you're saying Mahomes would not have been a good QB for the Bills in 2018. That was precisely what another poster said NOBODY was saying. The thing that NOBODY is saying is that he'd put up 50 TD's and be the league MVP with the 2018 Bills. My guess is he would have played pretty well as he's already established himself as an elite QB. Edited January 11, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: It sounds like you're saying Mahomes would not have been a good QB for the Bills in 2018. That was precisely what another poster said NOBODY was saying. The thing that NOBODY is saying is that he'd put up 50 TD's and be the league MVP with the 2018 Bills. My guess is he would have played pretty well as he's already established himself as an elite QB. Do you honestly think he has s huge rookie season in Rick Dennison’s offense throwing to a rookie Zay Jones and Charles Clay as his top targets? I think Mahomes has a ton of talent but he was in a really good situation in KC, which contributed to his huge success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I'll wait to see what the 2 rooks do next year. Mahomes is in his 2nd year and sat a whole year like Allen was supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 8 hours ago, K-9 said: Better to ask the guys who were here like Whaley and McD. ooooh you're so tricky. Beane was officially hired the day after the draft. Think he might have seen the big board? Nahhh the janitor probably erased it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Do you honestly think he has s huge rookie season in Rick Dennison’s offense throwing to a rookie Zay Jones and Charles Clay as his top targets? I think Mahomes has a ton of talent but he was in a really good situation in KC, which contributed to his huge success I think he would have had a "good" season with the 2018 Bills. He's an elite QB who will be the league MVP. Let's put it another way. Do you think Drew Brees would have had a "good" season with the 2018 Bills? If you answer yes to Brees and no to Mahomes, you're essentially discounting Mahomes as a player. That's fine, but at least try to keep the argument in perspective. Nobody is saying Mahomes would have been as good with the Bills as he was in KC. I'm saying he likely would have had a "good" season. Edited January 11, 2019 by LSHMEAB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: ooooh you're so tricky. Beane was officially hired the day after the draft. Think he might have seen the big board? Nahhh the janitor probably erased it. Wasn't trying to be tricky. It's a legitimate question. I get the sense you were just laying in wait for someone to respond like I did so you could spring the "he was hired a day after the draft" trap. Well done! Bravo! Maybe you should ask that janitor instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: ooooh you're so tricky. Beane was officially hired the day after the draft. Think he might have seen the big board? Nahhh the janitor probably erased it. Thats not true. He was not hired the day after the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I think he would have had a "good" season with the 2018 Bills. He's an elite QB who will be the league MVP. Let's put it another way. Do you think Drew Brees would have had a "good" season with the 2018 Bills? If you answer yes to Brees and no to Mahomes, you're essentially discounting Mahomes as a player. That's fine, but at least try to keep the argument in perspective. Nobody is saying Mahomes would have been as good with the Bills as he was in KC. I'm saying he likely would have had a "good" season. Disagree strongly. Mahomes would have completed 52% of his passes and had a 66 QB rating on the Bills. Josh Allen would have had 40 passing tds and 10 rushing tds on KC. They are basically the same player. Edited January 11, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StHustle Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 People are reading this wro 10 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said: If the Bills had evaluated Mahomes and thought he could end up looking anything like the guy who has ripped apart the NFL this season, they obviously would have taken him with their first-round pick. Instead, they sent the 10th selection to the Chiefs for the 27th and 91st selections, along with Kansas City's 2018 first-round pick, which ended up as the 22nd pick. The Bills drafted star cornerback Tre'Davious White with Kansas City's 2017 first-rounder, and then used the other two picks in trades that eventually netted them Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Sean McDermott undoubtedly loves his two defensive building blocks, and the Bills believe that Josh Allen, their other first-rounder in 2018, can turn into a viable starter, but they would undoubtedly trade all three for Mahomes in a heartbeat. I don't think that I would. Thoughts? BTW the article crushes the Bills over Gilmore as well. Pretty clear to me the 3 he is talking about is White, Jones and Edmunds. I'd make that trade in a heartbeat. Any NFL GM would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, row_33 said: Someone actually read the article? but so many didn’t and made up their minds and got all angry and hostile.... That's how this place rolls. It's part of what makes it so toxic. You know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Disagree strongly. Mahomes would have completed 52% of his passes and had a 66 QB rating on the Bills. Josh Allen would have had 40 passing tds and 10 rushing tds on KC. They are basically the same player. I really don't want to bash Allen because I saw more good than I expected, but some of the mental gymnastics regarding Mahomes are over the top. Allen has every chance in the world to make this a moot point next season. Comparing the two right now is silly. I would make that trade in a second because I'll take performance over potential. Allen could light it up next year with improved "weapons." However, you absolutely give up two promising young defensive players to swap an unproven QB for an MVP candidate. To each their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 25 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: It sounds like you're saying Mahomes would not have been a good QB for the Bills in 2018. That was precisely what another poster said NOBODY was saying. The thing that NOBODY is saying is that he'd put up 50 TD's and be the league MVP with the 2018 Bills. My guess is he would have played pretty well as he's already established himself as an elite QB. No what I said in an earlier post was that Mahomes would not have put up MVP numbers with the 2018 Bills and I'm pretty confident of that. Considering the hypothetical situation where the Bills draft Mahomes in 2017 and have him sit out most of the season behind Taylor (like he did in KC) I suspect that in 2018 with a year under his belt he would have graded out as a very good QB but in no way would he have generated the production in Buffalo that he did in KC. I just don't see how stating Mahomes dosen't put up MVP numbers in Buffalo this year is the same thing as saying he isn't a great QB. The truth is that had the Bills drafted him we would all be very confident that Mahomes was the guy, much like a lot of us are with Allen. However, I just don't see him throwing 50 TD passes and over 4,000 yards behind this O-line and to these skill players. And as far as trading away Allen, Jones & Edmonds for Mahomes, get back to me at the end of next year so we can compare apples to apples with both Allen & Edmunds finishing up their SECOND year in the NFL. We might laugh at the idea of such a trade. As an aside I just don't get this obsession with the Bills not drafting Mahomes. A lot of teams with QB needs passed on him. Obviously had they known back in 2017 what we know today about Mahomes a lot more teams then Buffalo would be trying to pick him up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Disagree strongly. Mahomes would have completed 52% of his passes and had a 66 QB rating on the Bills. Josh Allen would have had 40 passing tds and 10 rushing tds on KC. They are basically the same player. I don't see folks claiming that if you switched Allen & Mahomes they would have the same production. The biggest problem with this line of thinking is that Mahomes is in his 2nd season and Allen is a rookie. Since Mahomes only started 1 game last season we'll never know what his rookie numbers would have looked like. As for Allen we have to wait until next year to see what his 2nd season numbers look like. My guess is that had Mahomes been thrown out there in week 2 as a ROOKIE for this years Buffalo Bills team he would have struggled at times. I suspect that he would have had a higher % completion average then Allen because of his greater experience in college but might have had less big plays both through the air and with his legs. I think the season would have ended with the Bills fan base being super excited about next year and how much Mahomes would improve with a year under his belt and after the Bills upgraded their offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 hours ago, The Jokeman said: In 2014 we probably wouldn't have had the cap room to add a Rodgers unless we dismantled the team, the reason why so many teams are able to win quickly with young QBs (see Philly, Chicago, KC, the Rams) can do so well is because they are paying their QB so little they can use cap room on other places to build super teams around them. The Bills will be in that position this offseason so let's see what we do when aren't committing so much money to dead cap space. Yes but we are in a fairy tale world where KC is willing to trade Mahomes. There is no CAP in this world. On everything else in your post I whole heartedly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: ooooh you're so tricky. Beane was officially hired the day after the draft. Think he might have seen the big board? Nahhh the janitor probably erased it. Brandon Beane was hired on Tuesday, May 9, 2017. The draft that year was April 27th to 29th. So he was actually hired 12 days after the start of the draft. Edited January 11, 2019 by Nextmanup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It was McDermott’s draft. Stop. So you're under the impression that somehow McDermott conducted an entire draft all by himself? It's amazing how clueless people are on this board. McDermott used Whaley's draft board to make selections. It was Whaley's draft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 As an aside I hope the Bills hit the ground running in free agency so we have something real to talk about. I mean we haven't even got to the divisional playoff games yet and we're going stir crazy arguing about imaginary scenarios where KC trades Mahomes to us or what if we had drafted Mahomes in 2017! At this rate by February we'll be debating about what would have happened had the Bills taken Tom Brady in the 5th round and hired Belichick after he was fired by Cleveland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: I don't see folks claiming that if you switched Allen & Mahomes they would have the same production. The biggest problem with this line of thinking is that Mahomes is in his 2nd season and Allen is a rookie. Since Mahomes only started 1 game last season we'll never know what his rookie numbers would have looked like. As for Allen we have to wait until next year to see what his 2nd season numbers look like. My guess is that had Mahomes been thrown out there in week 2 as a ROOKIE for this years Buffalo Bills team he would have struggled at times. I suspect that he would have had a higher % completion average then Allen because of his greater experience in college but might have had less big plays both through the air and with his legs. I think the season would have ended with the Bills fan base being super excited about next year and how much Mahomes would improve with a year under his belt and after the Bills upgraded their offense. I think you're correct that the year to sit and learn is critical in the evaluation. I would have also stressed that the Pro Bowlers surrounding Mahomes, while Allen had a clown show of talent surrounding him, played an equally important part in the apparent gap in performance. I’m not making statements on how this turns out, just that it’s not yet fair to make a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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