ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Jeez guys if you want to wring your hands and cry over a player this team didn't draft we could all go back 20 years or more and do it each and every year. Revisionist whining. 

 

The Bills passed on Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson...Tom Brady. 

 

Is the kid an amazing talent, YES! I think he also would have looked not so great in Buffalo with a vastly inferior surrounding cast. Especially not having Andy Reid to mentor him. Have other college "air raid" players looked good in college, yes! Have any of them found success besides Mahomes in the NFL, NO! 

 

The Browns, The Bears, The Jags, The Titans, The Jets, the Chargers, The Panthers, The Bengals all passed on the kid and if any of them had any idea he would be this good. Every single one of them would have drafted him. Some scouting reports had Mahomes as a second round prospect. 

 

But then, who would have developed him and what surrounding cast would he have on each of those teams? No other team had a surround cast like the Chiefs. One of the very best TEs in the game with Travis Kelce, a TE with 103 receptions, 1336 yards. a top speed WR Tyreek Hill 1479 yards, they had a great RB in Kareem Hunt.

 

 

I like Josh Allen! I hope this FO gets him some of the talent like the Chiefs have on offense, line, WRs, TE. 

The Bills did not trade the actual pick used to select any of those guys. That is the reason it is remembered differently. 

[Real McClappy]

5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The Bills did not trade the actual pick used to select any of those guys. That is the reason it is remembered differently. 

All while when we needed a QB bad. 

 

Nothing we can do but hope that JA becomes the man for a long time.

 

If JA struggle we as fans will be looking back to not just Mahomes but Watson for a very long time.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Real McCoy

[PlayoffsPlease]

Just now, Real McCoy said:

All while when we needed a QB bad. 

 

Nothing we can do but hope that JA becomes the man for a long time.

What really drives me insane are people who say "no one could have known".  Yet it appears the Chiefs "knew" Mahomes was worth the draft picks traded. 

[Real McClappy]

17 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

What really drives me insane are people who say "no one could have known".  Yet it appears the Chiefs "knew" Mahomes was worth the draft picks traded. 

As did the Texans trading up for Watson. His 5900 yds passing, 800 yds rushing and 52tds is no joke as well in 24 games.

 

Trub, Watson and Mahomes were all considered 1st picks that year in a so called weak draft class. It's still a bit early but all 3 look like franchise QB's for many years to come. 

 

Again though, 100% out of our hands. All I can do is hope we get the O weapons and yr 2 JA lights the league on fire.

 

I still have no idea WTF the Jets were thinking that year at #6 as well?

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Real McCoy

[The 9 Isles]

The Bills are such a depressing organization. 

[GreggTX]

In a heartbeat.

[row_33]

Hindsight is fun to speculate on

 

 

 

But you have to make decisions in life in real time and spending too much time on what could have been doesn’t really help you going forward

 

 

[Shaw66]

15 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Shaw, the article says trading White, Edmunds and Zay Jones for Mahomes. Allen becomes a moot point then.

 

And yes, I would do that every day.

Oh, that's my mistake.  

 

With Allen on the roster now I wouldn't do that, because I'd have to trade Allen and I couldn't get the equivalent of those three guys in a trade. But if think about it. 

 

Before last season's draft, yes, in a heartbeat. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

The point being is that Mahomes has sown he has enough talent to put up monster numbers. We are hoping to see that from Allen. I would take production over potential.

His point being is that ZERO POINT ZERO PERCENT of fans or experts for that matter could have predicted this.

 

None. If you say otherwise, it's being disingenuous at best.

 

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

Hindsight is fun to speculate on

 

 

 

But you have to make decisions in life in real time and spending too much time on what could have been doesn’t really help you going forward

 

 

 

Exactly. But self-flagellation is the national pastime of this fanbase.

 

[Bangarang]

36 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

His point being is that ZERO POINT ZERO PERCENT of fans or experts for that matter could have predicted this.

 

None. If you say otherwise, it's being disingenuous at best.

 

Well, you’re absolutely wrong because there were people here pounding the table for Mahomes and thought he was going to be great. 

 

Jeffsmagic basically argued on a daily over how good he was going to be.

 

 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

If you think about it from McD's perspective he is being an NFL head coach for the first time in Buffalo 2017. A defensive minded type of guy who inherited a QB which fits his scheme of things perfectly. He wants to build a power run offensive attack along with a stout defense. A QB like Tyrod Taylor who doesn't turn the ball over and can throw, run is basically a perfect QB for him! He probably wanted to keep Taylor to see what kind of performance he can get from him with his choice of coaches running the offense. 

 

Again, looking at the 2016 Buffalo Bills that McD inherited he saw that the defense was in worse shape then the offense. Bills 16th on offense with the #1 rushing attack. 19th on defense. What the new Bills HC did doesn't make much sense to me as that 2016 Bills secondary was pretty good with Gilmore and Darby at corner.  

 

The 2017 Buffalo Bills did make the playoffs at 9-7 and McD saw the limitations in Taylor first hand for himself in that Jags playoff game 17 of 37 for 134 yards passing. Taylor had to go and now he is looking at brining in a new QB.

 

McD didn't know that this Buffalo Bills fan base has been elite QB starved since the Jim Kelly days of the 90's.

 

Patrick Mahomes comes from only playing two full seasons at Texas Tech. In Mahomes first season he played in only 7 games and his team went 4-8 in 2014. His second season the team went 7-6 in 2015. In 2016 the Red Raiders went 5-7 with Kliff Kingsbury as their HC. Kingsbury is currently the new Arizona Cardinals head coach and Mahomes is probably why. If you ask me this is beyond stupid as the man went 35-40 at TT and was fired for it. So, now he is supposed to build the Cardinals into NFL powerhouse...

 

Mahomes didn't fit into the scheme that McD wanted to run in Buffalo with an aggressive all out spread passing attack and as a defensive minded HC McD knows that when you throw the ball three things can happen and two of them are bad... 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2017/04/26/patrick-mahomes-nfl-draft-2017-quarterback-teams-texas-tech/100942974/

 

Anyone else think that the Bears would have traded up for Trubisky at the #2 spot if they knew Mahomes would be this good?  The kid was a huge boom or bust project that only Andy Reid saw the true potential, then set it in motion. 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Well, you’re absolutely wrong because there were people here pounding the table for Mahomes and thought he was going to be great. 

 

Jeffsmagic basically argued on a daily over how good he was going to be.

 

 

 

 

And he got banned for doing it so aggressively. I also advocated strongly for Mahomes, but it's not a moot point that his success has been fostered by exceptional coaching, a redshirt year to sit and learn, and very good talent on the offensive side of the ball. I liked Allen before the draft and if Beane does this off-season what the Rams and Bears did for their young qbs in terms of significantly upgrading surrounding talent, I suspect the chagrin over passing on Mahomes will substantially disappear, because Allen certainly has the potential to be very good, critics notwithstanding. 

[iinii]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:49 AM, oldmanfan said:

I have a feeling Mahomes is going to come up short on Saturday.

Good thing it was just a feeling

[row_33]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

....self-flagellation is the national pastime of this fanbase.

 

 

Part of the fun being a fan for a team that isn’t a front runner every year (cough)

 

But people,  please don’t let it spoil your dinner until the regular season kicks in again.

 

[WVUFootball29]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:17 AM, Southern Bills Fan said:

If the Bills had evaluated Mahomes and thought he could end up looking anything like the guy who has ripped apart the NFL this season, they obviously would have taken him with their first-round pick. Instead, they sent the 10th selection to the Chiefs for the 27th and 91st selections, along with Kansas City's 2018 first-round pick, which ended up as the 22nd pick. The Bills drafted star cornerback Tre'Davious White with Kansas City's 2017 first-rounder, and then used the other two picks in trades that eventually netted them Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Sean McDermott undoubtedly loves his two defensive building blocks, and the Bills believe that Josh Allen, their other first-rounder in 2018, can turn into a viable starter, but they would undoubtedly trade all three for Mahomes in a heartbeat.

 

 

I don't think that I would. Thoughts? BTW the article crushes the Bills over Gilmore as well.

The quality of this content is why I havent watched anything ESPN has had to offer in over 4 years.  Other than live sports broadcasts.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

If you think about it from McD's perspective he is being an NFL head coach for the first time in Buffalo 2017. A defensive minded type of guy who inherited a QB which fits his scheme of things perfectly. He wants to build a power run offensive attack along with a stout defense. A QB like Tyrod Taylor who doesn't turn the ball over and can throw, run is basically a perfect QB for him! He probably wanted to keep Taylor to see what kind of performance he can get from him with his choice of coaches running the offense. 

 

Again, looking at the 2016 Buffalo Bills that McD inherited he saw that the defense was in worse shape then the offense. Bills 16th on offense with the #1 rushing attack. 19th on defense. What the new Bills HC did doesn't make much sense to me as that 2016 Bills secondary was pretty good with Gilmore and Darby at corner.  

 

The 2017 Buffalo Bills did make the playoffs at 9-7 and McD saw the limitations in Taylor first hand for himself in that Jags playoff game 17 of 37 for 134 yards passing. Taylor had to go and now he is looking at brining in a new QB.

 

McD didn't know that this Buffalo Bills fan base has been elite QB starved since the Jim Kelly days of the 90's.

 

Patrick Mahomes comes from only playing two full seasons at Texas Tech. In Mahomes first season he played in only 7 games and his team went 4-8 in 2014. His second season the team went 7-6 in 2015. In 2016 the Red Raiders went 5-7 with Kliff Kingsbury as their HC. Kingsbury is currently the new Arizona Cardinals head coach and Mahomes is probably why. If you ask me this is beyond stupid as the man went 35-40 at TT and was fired for it. So, now he is supposed to build the Cardinals into NFL powerhouse...

 

Mahomes didn't fit into the scheme that McD wanted to run in Buffalo with an aggressive all out spread passing attack and as a defensive minded HC McD knows that when you throw the ball three things can happen and two of them are bad... 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2017/04/26/patrick-mahomes-nfl-draft-2017-quarterback-teams-texas-tech/100942974/

 

Anyone else think that the Bears would have traded up for Trubisky at the #2 spot if they knew Mahomes would be this good?  The kid was a huge boom or bust project that only Andy Reid saw the true potential, then set it in motion. 

 

This is great analysis of why the Bills might not have wanted him.  Plus, the NFL doesn't like small QBs. Mahomes and Mayfield may finally change that bias.

 

But it doesn't respond to the original point, which is that if they had it to do over they would have kept the pick and taken Mahomes. Who wouldn't? 

 

Still, given all that's happened I like where the Bill's are. If they'd taken Mahomes, maybe they would have gotten Edmund's anyway, but not White. So Bills possibly will end up better off doing what they did, but today, its hard to argue that getting Mahomes would have been the wrong move.  Two years from now I think we will be happy it fell the way it did, but that's a guess.  Mahones isnt a guess anymore. 

[oldmanfan]

I have to say I have never found these kind of retrospective analyses worth much.  Would they have taken Mahomes then knowing how he played this season?  Of course.  You can play that game with any pick in the draft for any team in the league.  At the time concerns were expressed about Mahomes' footwork, and that he was coining from a program from which no QBs had succeeded in the league, given the one read shotgun offense they ran.

 

These articles to me show the problems inherent in our Internet based communications.  Guys have to write stories just to fill a blog or a website, and as such one just writes stuff without a lot of real thought.

[Oldfan]

59 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is great analysis of why the Bills might not have wanted him.  Plus, the NFL doesn't like small QBs. Mahomes and Mayfield may finally change that bias.

 

But it doesn't respond to the original point, which is that if they had it to do over they would have kept the pick and taken Mahomes. Who wouldn't? 

 

Still, given all that's happened I like where the Bill's are. If they'd taken Mahomes, maybe they would have gotten Edmund's anyway, but not White. So Bills possibly will end up better off doing what they did, but today, its hard to argue that getting Mahomes would have been the wrong move.  Two years from now I think we will be happy it fell the way it did, but that's a guess.  Mahones isnt a guess anymore. 

Mahomes is 6’3 230. That’s not small

[Zerovoltz]

On 1/11/2019 at 11:58 AM, Yav said:

Brady wasn't all that great in college and neither was Montana. 

Looking back Leaf was great in college and flamed out in the NFL. Jeff George was a good college QB but never really a super star in the NFL, nice career but that was all. 

 

Mahomes his rookie season didn't start, he couldn't beat out Alex Smith. Are you saying Smith should be considered an all time great? I'm guessing not. Mahomes had a good season throwing to probably the best TE in the NFL, the fastest WR in the NFL and for had arguably the best RB in the NFL for part of the season. Prescott had a great first year playing behind the best OL in football but the minute that line lost talent and the RB was hurt he looked less than stellar. 

 

I'm not a fan of Mahomes, I've lived in KC and I've watched him play. Sure he put up some swell numbers and KC somehow won their division while being the second best team in that division. When the games mattered, Rams, Patriots, Chargers (at home with the division on the line) and Seattle, they lost. Take a look at that NE game and pay close attention to the last TD pass to Hill. Notice the ball was under thrown to a wide open Hill who just outran everyone on the field? Take some time and watch the kid throw and stop just looking at box scores. He's not all that accurate. Had Allen been throwing to competent pass catchers all season his numbers would have been better. Buffalo was one of the worst teams in dropped balls this season. Buffalo also had a horrible OL especially when you compare their line to KC. 

 

Now add in that the Bills have a 20 year old MLB that might end up being one of the best LBs in the NFL and a CB that looks to be just as good if not better than Patrick Peterson (currently the best CB in the NFL). I can't see how this article could have been published. What team in the NFL would give up 3 players for 1 based on 1 season? Sorry but seems stupid. 

 

I will not appoint Mahomes anything until he shows he can actually sustain success in the NFL for more than a year or two, and I would do the same with Allen. I'm not a fan of Mahomes and I was happy when Buffalo traded the pick, I just don't think the kids going to be able to maintain success in the NFL. KC is eventually going to have to pay people and when they can't afford all those play makers then what? 

 

You just keep moving the goal posts further and further back....NOTHING you've had to say about Mahomes has been remotely close to accurate.  Mahomes threw for 25 TD and 2700 yards to guys not named Hill, Kelce and Watkins this year.  His numbers to just the other scrubs on the team would have ranked him in the top half of QB's for the year.  He has done this with the Worst D in the NFL, and lost the support of a pro bowl RB who they had to "kick" off the team....KC's 4 losses were by a combined 21 points.  Alex Smith had the same weapons, coaches and BETTER D than this and could barely must HALF Mahomes production.  By the way...KC ran and threw at the same ratio they did last year...so this isn't about volume of attmepts etc....Mahomes is simply that much better and way more efficient....I don't often say this about anyone as all kinds of people have all kinds of opinions...but you sir...you do not know what you are talking about.  

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, Oldfan said:

Mahomes is 6’3 230. That’s not small

Hmmmmmm   

 

Don't mind me.