ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[TheElectricCompany]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Acctually you're right, in the sense that NO ONE has ever put up a ridiculous season like Mahomes in his first.   But that means that there's NEVER been a guy who's become an elite QB after having put up such a season.  It's never happened, so the fact that he put up an elite season doesn't say anything about his future.  

 

If Josh can improve with time, so can Mahomes. I'd love to see him score 60 TDs. 

But sure, let's keep pumping the brakes and pretend he'll regress into Blakes Bortles. 

The dude is going to torch the league for the next 15 years, and we should have taken him. Period. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by TheElectricCompany

[BuffaloMatt]

15 hours ago, APoxOnYou said:

The people around Mahomes don't need elevating. He has the best weapons in the league.

You are exactly right. So many young qbs die in this league when surrounded by limited talent. Bills needed (and need) more than one player. 

[zow2]

I heard that Mahomes is the Mahomes we see in large part because of Andy Reid.  So if that's the case, then NO i would not re-do this scenario since Mahomes would not have Andy Reid here.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I have confidence McDermott knows D and that White and Edmunds are likely key pieces in building a top-tier defense. Mahomes has to score a lot, because the KC defense is likely to give up 35 points. If Allen turns into a more athletic Big Ben and the D is good, that's a recipe for post-season appearances and success.

A more athletic Big Ben would be a top 10 qb all time.  

[C.Biscuit97]

48 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Okay, you asked for it.   Here's SI's list of the top 10 rookie seasons for QBs.    https://www.si.com/nfl/photo/2016/10/11/best-rookie-quarterback-seasons-nfl-history#8  

 

On the list are:  Robert Griffin III, Jameis WInston, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton.  Out of ten, one is a bust and three are NOTelite or top tier.  And those are the rookies, not guys who sat for a year and then started.   There probably are a few of those, too. 

 

Like I said, it's too early to tell.  

If Allen has a Newton type career or even Dalton, it would be a good pick.  It’s amazing How much poster last here underrated Cam.

[Yav]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Matt Flynn had 6 in a game.

 

generally, I agree with your post.  Allen could turn out to be a fine QB but he has never really been a dominant one on any level.  Mahomes had seasons like this in college so it “seems” like it is not a fluke.  

 

Basically, we are hoping Allen becomes a better QB in the nfl than he was in the MWC. Honest question: how often does that happen?

Brady wasn't all that great in college and neither was Montana. 

Looking back Leaf was great in college and flamed out in the NFL. Jeff George was a good college QB but never really a super star in the NFL, nice career but that was all. 

 

Mahomes his rookie season didn't start, he couldn't beat out Alex Smith. Are you saying Smith should be considered an all time great? I'm guessing not. Mahomes had a good season throwing to probably the best TE in the NFL, the fastest WR in the NFL and for had arguably the best RB in the NFL for part of the season. Prescott had a great first year playing behind the best OL in football but the minute that line lost talent and the RB was hurt he looked less than stellar. 

 

I'm not a fan of Mahomes, I've lived in KC and I've watched him play. Sure he put up some swell numbers and KC somehow won their division while being the second best team in that division. When the games mattered, Rams, Patriots, Chargers (at home with the division on the line) and Seattle, they lost. Take a look at that NE game and pay close attention to the last TD pass to Hill. Notice the ball was under thrown to a wide open Hill who just outran everyone on the field? Take some time and watch the kid throw and stop just looking at box scores. He's not all that accurate. Had Allen been throwing to competent pass catchers all season his numbers would have been better. Buffalo was one of the worst teams in dropped balls this season. Buffalo also had a horrible OL especially when you compare their line to KC. 

 

Now add in that the Bills have a 20 year old MLB that might end up being one of the best LBs in the NFL and a CB that looks to be just as good if not better than Patrick Peterson (currently the best CB in the NFL). I can't see how this article could have been published. What team in the NFL would give up 3 players for 1 based on 1 season? Sorry but seems stupid. 

 

I will not appoint Mahomes anything until he shows he can actually sustain success in the NFL for more than a year or two, and I would do the same with Allen. I'm not a fan of Mahomes and I was happy when Buffalo traded the pick, I just don't think the kids going to be able to maintain success in the NFL. KC is eventually going to have to pay people and when they can't afford all those play makers then what? 

[TheFunPolice]

I'm not sure about this...

 

Yes. Mahomes has had an amazing year. However, he has Andy Reid, a ton of offensive weapons, and a great OL. Here he would have had Zay Jones, an awful OL, and a defensive head coach who thinks we need to run and punt well on offense because it's cold here.

 

Plus, let's see what he does in the playoffs. If he goes 1 and done or comes up short vs NE in the AFC Title Game then his season means nothing and next year I doubt he will have the same production, given that it was insane even by 2018 NFL standards.

 

I'm fine with having Allen, Edmunds, and White. White is already great, Edmunds is on his way, and if Allen becomes even pretty good then the Bills won that trade.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

I'm not sure about this...

 

Yes. Mahomes has had an amazing year. However, he has Andy Reid, a ton of offensive weapons, and a great OL. Here he would have had Zay Jones, an awful OL, and a defensive head coach who thinks we need to run and punt well on offense because it's cold here.

 

Plus, let's see what he does in the playoffs. If he goes 1 and done or comes up short vs NE in the AFC Title Game then his season means nothing and next year I doubt he will have the same production, given that it was insane even by 2018 NFL standards.

 

I'm fine with having Allen, Edmunds, and White. White is already great, Edmunds is on his way, and if Allen becomes even pretty good then the Bills won that trade.

 

 

Has Mahomes not done enough for you to evaluate him individually?

Sure there are good things around him, but that doesn't take away from his individual ability.

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Has Mahomes not done enough for you to evaluate him individually?

Sure there are good things around him, but that doesn't take away from his individual ability.

 

 

 

True.. He has had an amazing season. I personally love his game and am rooting for the Chiefs to go all the way.

 

Now, that said, when a guy gets this type of hype he has to win when the games really matter for it to be worth it. How will he do in the playoffs?

 

If he continues to throw 4 TD per game then the Chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl, regardless of their defense. The way the KC offense is, just force 2 punts per game and it's a W.

 

On the other hand, if he looks shaky, plays below his level for the season and the Chiefs lose then it will just be another lost season for KC.

 

I'm excited to see if he can rise up to the moment. THAT is what makes an MVP and a truly great player.

Edited January 11, 2019 by TheFunPolice

[IgotBILLStopay]

Mahones throwing to KB Andre Holmes and Zay Jones behind the Bills o line would have less than 20 TDS on the season and would not be the sensation he is. These writers are so stupid sometimes.

Edited January 11, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay

[TheFunPolice]

Also, the scenario posed is:

 

2 pro-bowl defenders, 1 at each level of the defense

and

1 good, exciting QB who could become top 10

 

vs

 

A dynamic all-star QB who throws for 5,000 yards and 50 TD and ________________________

 

To me, the blank matters. IF "goes one and done" or "loses to NE like everyone else" goes into the blank then the Bills won the trade. If "leads his team to the Super Bowl" goes in the blank then it becomes a real discussion.

[Logic]

People always seem to assume that Mahomes would be Mahomes wherever he wound up. I'm not so sure. He has an all time great offensive mind calling plays for him and an all-world set of skill players and linemen.

If you had airdropped Mahomes into the Bills' offense this year or last, anyone want to bet how he would have looked?

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

True.. He has had an amazing season. I personally love his game and am rooting for the Chiefs to go all the way.

 

Now, that said, when a guy gets this type of hype he has to win when the games really matter for it to be worth it. How will he do in the playoffs?

 

If he continues to throw 4 TD per game then the Chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl, regardless of their defense. The way the KC offense is, just force 2 punts per game and it's a W.

 

On the other hand, if he looks shaky, plays below his level for the season and the Chiefs lose then it will just be another lost season for KC.

 

I'm excited to see if he can rise up to the moment. THAT is what makes an MVP and a truly great player.

He lost a game where his offense scored 51 points.

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

People always seem to assume that Mahomes would be Mahomes wherever he wound up. I'm not so sure. He has an all time great offensive mind calling plays for him and an all-world set of skill players and linemen.

If you had airdropped Mahomes into the Bills' offense this year or last, anyone want to bet how he would have looked?

They are scoring 35 points per game, more than a touchdown more than last year when Alex Smith had the best season of his 10 year career. Sammy has missed more than half of the season and their rb got suspended.  Why is it so hard to admit that Mahomes is really, really good and it’s silly to compare Allen to him at this point?  Would the Cards not trade Rosen, Redick, and Peterson for Mahomes at this point?  

 

31 nfl fanbases would laugh at us for even debating if this was a good trade for us. 

[TheFunPolice]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He lost a game where his offense scored 51 points.

 

True and that's not on him.

 

However the Chiefs need TDs in the playoffs or they are going to lose

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Acctually you're right, in the sense that NO ONE has ever put up a ridiculous season like Mahomes in his first.   But that means that there's NEVER been a guy who's become an elite QB after having put up such a season.  It's never happened, so the fact that he put up an elite season doesn't say anything about his future.  

Sounds like you're betting against Mahomes remaining a top tier QB. Probably a losing wager.

 

The only QB's to have EVER had the type of season Mahomes had are the best of the best. That's a pretty good indication of things to come. 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

True and that's not on him.

 

However the Chiefs need TDs in the playoffs or they are going to lose

But this is what’s so silly.  People will say he busted in the playoffs if he loses.  Mahomes is the the main reason the Chiefs have the number 1 seed.  They are the 2nd worst defense in the nfl. 

[TheElectricCompany]

23 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Also, the scenario posed is:

 

2 pro-bowl defenders, 1 at each level of the defense

and

1 good, exciting QB who could become top 10

 

vs

 

A dynamic all-star QB who throws for 5,000 yards and 50 TD and ________________________

 

The whole trade scenario is dumb. You could propose sending 4 first round picks to KC and they still wouldn't bite. 

 

The _________ is not about what happens this year. The future is ridiculously bright even if they get blown out. it's about the long term likelihood that Mahomes will keep you in championship contention for a decade or more. 

 

Meanwhile, we've got Allen throwing more INTs than TDs and folks are acting like it's even remotely close right now.  

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by TheElectricCompany

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Sounds like you're betting against Mahomes remaining a top tier QB. Probably a losing wager.

 

The only QB's to have EVER had the type of season Mahomes had are the best of the best. That's a pretty good indication of things to come. 

 

 

Well and Josh Allen if they switched teams. ?

[LSHMEAB]

53 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I heard that Mahomes is the Mahomes we see in large part because of Andy Reid.  So if that's the case, then NO i would not re-do this scenario since Mahomes would not have Andy Reid here.

Who told you that? In 20 years as a head coach, the highest TD total a QB has ever produced under Reid is 32. Alex Smith was averaging 20 in KC.

 

Mahomes dropped 52!! It's gonna be a long 15 years if you guys don't let this Mahomes thing go.

[Logic]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He lost a game where his offense scored 51 points.

They are scoring 35 points per game, more than a touchdown more than last year when Alex Smith had the best season of his 10 year career. Sammy has missed more than half of the season and their rb got suspended.  Why is it so hard to admit that Mahomes is really, really good and it’s silly to compare Allen to him at this point?  Would the Cards not trade Rosen, Redick, and Peterson for Mahomes at this point?  

 

31 nfl fanbases would laugh at us for even debating if this was a good trade for us. 

Mahomes is really, really good. I'm not questioning that for a second. I'm just saying that I don't think he would have thrown 50 TDs with this o-line, our receivers, and Brian Daboll. Would he still have a darn good season? Probably. But he wouldn't be "Showtime Mahomes" with the Bills' offensive cast, that's all I'm saying.

And for what it's worth, I'd make the trade.