Logic Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/08/lafleur-hire-leaves-mike-vrabel-without-an-offensive-coordinator/ "NFL teams are looking for offensive coaches, and Monday’s decision by the Packers to hire Titans offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur underscores it. With the pendulum squarely pointed in the direction of the Os not the Xs (solid defensive performances from wild-card weekend notwithstanding), teams have placed great importance on having in place a staff of offensive coaches who can develop quarterbacks and hone playbooks and strategies and concepts and otherwise get the most out of the collection of 11 players charged with moving the ball and scoring the points. The fact that the Titans, one year after hiring a defensive coach, find themselves looking for a new offensive coordinator underscores the problem that teams will face when hiring defensive coaches. If your offensive coordinator has any degree of success (and, frankly, the Titans didn’t have much last year, finishing 25th in total yards and 29th in passing yards), he’ll be gone and your defensive head coach will be stuck looking for a replacement."There's been a lot of talk the past couple of days about the difficulties of revolving-door OC situations around the NFL, as highlighted by the recent hiring of Matt LeFleur by the Packers. Basically, as mentioned in the article, the notion is that if your head coach is a defensive specialist, any time his OCs start to have success, they're going to get poached by another team. This, in turn, leads to constant turnover at the position, which can hinder the development of young QBs. Marcus Mariota is a great example, as he's about to be on his 5th OC in 5 seasons. Obviously, the same can happen in reverse. If you have an OFFENSE-minded head coach, its possible that his DEFENSIVE coordinators routinely get poached. However, this is theoretically less damaging to a team and, in particular, does not affect the most important position on the team, the quarterback. Furthermore, as more and more teams hire offensive-minded head coaches, defensive coordinators that have success are less likely to be stolen away after a good season. So my question, as a fan of a team with a head coach whose specialty is defense and who has just drafted a young QB, is should we be worried about this phenomenon? How will we feel if Daboll has a good season next year and then gets stolen away, leaving Josh Allen to have to learn a brand new offense just as he's beginning to hit his stride? I happen to like Sean McDermott quite a lot. I also tend to think that finding a quality leader and tone setter is the most important thing, and that McDermott fits the bill. Nevertheless, this year's coaching cycle has my mental wheels turning. Are the Bills gonna be cycling through OCs and stunting Allen's growth by virtue of the direction that the league seems to be going in terms of head coach preferences? Is this a legitimate concern or much ado about nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Unless Allen loses his mind and goes Mahomes next year I don't believe we have to worry about Daboll 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Logic said: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/08/lafleur-hire-leaves-mike-vrabel-without-an-offensive-coordinator/ "NFL teams are looking for offensive coaches, and Monday’s decision by the Packers to hire Titans offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur underscores it. With the pendulum squarely pointed in the direction of the Os not the Xs (solid defensive performances from wild-card weekend notwithstanding), teams have placed great importance on having in place a staff of offensive coaches who can develop quarterbacks and hone playbooks and strategies and concepts and otherwise get the most out of the collection of 11 players charged with moving the ball and scoring the points. The fact that the Titans, one year after hiring a defensive coach, find themselves looking for a new offensive coordinator underscores the problem that teams will face when hiring defensive coaches. If your offensive coordinator has any degree of success (and, frankly, the Titans didn’t have much last year, finishing 25th in total yards and 29th in passing yards), he’ll be gone and your defensive head coach will be stuck looking for a replacement."There's been a lot of talk the past couple of days about the difficulties of revolving-door OC situations around the NFL, as highlighted by the recent hiring of Matt LeFleur by the Packers. Basically, as mentioned in the article, the notion is that if your head coach is a defensive specialist, any time his OCs start to have success, they're going to get poached by another team. This, in turn, leads to constant turnover at the position, which can hinder the development of young QBs. Marcus Mariota is a great example, as he's about to be on his 5th OC in 5 seasons. Obviously, the same can happen in reverse. If you have an OFFENSE-minded head coach, its possible that his DEFENSIVE coordinators routinely get poached. However, this is theoretically less damaging to a team and, in particular, does not affect the most important position on the team, the quarterback. Furthermore, as more and more teams hire offensive-minded head coaches, defensive coordinators that have success are less likely to be stolen away after a good season. So my question, as a fan of a team with a head coach whose specialty is defense and who has just drafted a young QB, is should we be worried about this phenomenon? How will we feel if Daboll has a good season next year and then gets stolen away, leaving Josh Allen to have to learn a brand new offense just as he's beginning to hit his stride? I happen to like Sean McDermott quite a lot. I also tend to think that finding a quality leader and tone setter is the most important thing, and that McDermott fits the bill. Nevertheless, this year's coaching cycle has my mental wheels turning. Are the Bills gonna be cycling through OCs and stunting Allen's growth by virtue of the direction that the league seems to be going in terms of head coach preferences? Is this a legitimate concern or much ado about nothing? I mean - the key is constantly re-upping the pipeline. Trying to identify young up and coming coaches. Daboll and Culley seem to form the nucleus of what they are trying to do moving forward - but if Daboll were to get a HC job I assume they are intending to groom Culley to replace him as primary playcaller? He worked under Reid as the WR coach for what 20 something years? The other option is outside the organization - which is always tricky especially with them likely wanting their own QB coaches etc. I wonder if Derek Anderson is using his Bills job to try and learn more about coaching as well to someday kind of follow in a similar pattern. Back-up QBs seem to head in the direction of coaching more than broadcasting. Edited January 8, 2019 by dneveu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Imagine if the Patriots had an offensive minded head coach instead of a defensive minded head coach: Brady's development never would have been stunted with all the OC changes through the years. 4 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 There is no salary cap on coaches, right? I have to believe there is at least one way to convince a coach to stay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Which is why the HC should have a succession plan in case that happens. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) There's no need to worry about losing Daboll right now because I doubt he winds up with one of the 6 remaining HC jobs. Whatever happens, happens and it's out of their control. The real issue is how bad OC's getting hired to be HC's will affect the league. Everyone's looking for the next McVay, but those guys aren't growing on trees. I can see some undeserving types getting HC jobs and not being ready and/or not talented enough to handle the gig. Developing an offense is harder than ever with HC turnover, new schemes to implement, free agency moving players around, and the demand for instant results. And, they require incredible precision, not to mention an excellent QB. Right now, there are 6 HC vacancies. Of installed HCs, 1 who comes from the special teams side, 9 from the defensive side, and 16 offensive. The supply of great offensive minds will not, as with QBs, keep up with demand. Something's gotta give eventually. 18 teams have changed HCs since the beginning of the 2017 off-season (BUF, MIA, NYJ, CIN, CLE, IND, TEN, DEN, LAC, OAK, NYG 2x, CHI, DET, GB, TB, AZ 2x, LAR, SF) Edited January 8, 2019 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 What is the sun burns itself out tomorrow? Do we have a succession plan in place? 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said: Imagine if the Patriots had an offensive minded head coach instead of a defensive minded head coach: Brady's development never would have been stunted with all the OC changes through the years. Right. Clearly the Patriots are the one shining example of this not being an issue. There are lots of examples where it IS an issue, though. Mariota currently, Cam Newton regressing in new offenses under Rivera, etc. I knew someone would bring up Belichick right away, but as with most things relating to the Hoodie, he seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 The problem with our coaching staff is that there is not a single young up and comer that I would be cool with getting promoted if Daboll does leave to be a HC at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: The problem with our coaching staff is that there is not a single young up and comer that I would be cool with getting promoted if Daboll does leave to be a HC at some point. Maybe that fact has something to do with the current Bills search for two new offensive assistants. I know that conventional wisdom is that you look for quarterback whisperers to promot to OC, but a good WR coach can be a crucial contributer to offensive strategizing too. Yeah, defensive line coaches are too inclined to want to run the ball all the time. Edited January 9, 2019 by TigerJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, TigerJ said: Maybe that fact has something to do with the current Bills search for two new offensive assistants. I know that conventional wisdom is that you look for quarterback whisperers to promot to OC, but a good WR coach can be a crucial contributer to offensive strategizing too. Yeah, offensive line coaches are too inclined to want to run the ball all the time. WR coaches often want to be QB coaches and Coordinators. 9 minutes ago, Bangarang said: The problem with our coaching staff is that there is not a single young up and comer that I would be cool with getting promoted if Daboll does leave to be a HC at some point. We have a couple openings now - and i do think Culley has his eyes set to be the replacement unless someone else were to be brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: What is the sun burns itself out tomorrow? Do we have a succession plan in place? i'm a bit more worried about the moon colliding into the earth, but i guess we each have our things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I think the offensive craze is a little overblown especially on here. The innovative offense never lasts long. The bears and rams are prime examples. They were killing it the first half of the season and either their young quarterbacks hit a wall or teams started seeing the same schemes and formations and recognizing them and stopping them. The chiefs might be the wild card in this scenario but this is possibly the best offense Reid has ever had, it’ll be interesting to see if Mahomes comes back down to earth (as he has been the last few games) and if Andy can get his team through the playoffs. These innovative offenses have not proven they can sustain an entire season in my opinion. Playoffs sure, winning rings though is much different. Some of these newish offensive hires the last few years don’t look all the good if you ask me. Bears are quite balanced with an elite defense. 49ers have been ugly. Philly has magical Foles. Rams seem to be dependent on Gurley taking over games. I’m just not sold that offense wins Super Bowls still. When push comes to shove I think ground and pound controlling the clock and limiting turnovers is still the way to go. Along with a top 15 defense that stays fresh during a game. With that said, I don’t think you need the young up and comer coordinator for offense. Just someone who can form an offense to fit the talent on the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 54 minutes ago, Bangarang said: The problem with our coaching staff is that there is not a single young up and comer that I would be cool with getting promoted if Daboll does leave to be a HC at some point. On a scale of Hippo to Rhino, how happy were you with Daboll being on the Bills staff before he was promoted to OC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: On a scale of Hippo to Rhino, how happy were you with Daboll being on the Bills staff before he was promoted to OC? wat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 It's just another copycat/trend. Doubt it will last. A couple offensive coaches (who just happened to have young talented up-and-coming QBs) found some immediate success. So of course, it's because they are "genius" play-callers. And not because the offensive talent around them came together and took off. Earlier this season, Bills fans were calling for Brian Daboll's head. Now watch. The front office is going to add some talent in the draft and free agency. Josh Allen takes a step in his development. Suddenly the Bills offense improves. If this happens, Daboll will most certainly be in the discussion for a HC job next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said: Imagine if the Patriots had an offensive minded head coach instead of a defensive minded head coach: Brady's development never would have been stunted with all the OC changes through the years. Except Belichick isn't just a great defensive minded HC.......... he's also in the discussion as the greatest offensive mind of all time. Make no mistake that Patriots team has been offense driven for the past 15 seasons. That's the one constant. He's just the best coach to ever walk an NFL sideline...........he just carves up other coaches in the film room during the week and then picks the meat off their bones with his in-game management on Sundays. Sean McDermott has been paralyzed in his meetings with BB..........0-4 with one offensive TD. Wow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Except Belichick isn't just a great defensive minded HC.......... he's also in the discussion as the greatest offensive mind of all time. Make no mistake that Patriots team has been offense driven for the past 15 seasons. That's the one constant. He's just the best coach to ever walk an NFL sideline...........he just carves up other coaches in the film room during the week and then picks the meat off their bones with his in-game management on Sundays. Sean McDermott has been paralyzed in his meetings with BB..........0-4 with one offensive TD. Wow. You're crediting them with an offensive TD even though it came in *late* garbage time (1:08 left in the fourth) in a ritual stomping? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 it doesn't matter what side of the ball your resume leans toward. If your a good coach, you're a good coach. All this "young offensive-minded genius" is horse crap and a fad. The jury is still out on McVay's success.. Yeah, he's been hot the past two seasons, the question is, where's he gonna be in 5? Do you think he doesn't understand Defenses? How does he come up with a game plan then? Good successful long-term coaches comprehend and can scheme both sides of the ball equally well. Belichick mentioned already. Bet your ass he can coach either side of the football with equal acuity and success. Andy Reid. You don't think this man understands defensive concepts and couldn't game plan an effective defensive scheme? Think again. Mike Zimmer, doesn't understand Offense? right... John Harbaugh... Special Teams. Hmmm... If you don't have the acumen to effectively scheme either side of the football, then you shouldn't be a head coach. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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