Offensive Line: Who Stays Who Goes

[Ayjent]

They could easily upgrade 4 starters from LG to RT.  Dawkins is the best of the bunch, but it's not like they can't improve there either.

[Socal-805]

4 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

I think you work from the inside out.  So finding a great C is the most necessary IMO.  Because of familiarity with Daboll I wouldn't mind Ross Pierschbacher, Alabama.  The guy I would prefer though is Eldgton Jenkins.

 

 

+ 1

 

Also,  I say PAY a FA Center and go from there.  I don't trust this F.O. to select O line talent yet; just haven't seem them do it...

 

 

[ILBillsfan]

10 hours ago, simpleman said:

Bodine as depth will cost $2,289,063 next year. He adds little to the team. If you can add a depth player who is barely acceptable like Bodine is for depth at less than 2 million, I say do so. Otherwise keep him at depth

 

Miller never got better. I had hopes for him. Buffalo has wasted enough on him already. Let him walk.

 

Ducasse is not an answer at 2 million. Get another depth vet at near vet minimum unless he is willing to play for vet minimum, which is all he is worth.

 

Groy is another disappointment who is not worth more than vet minimum.

 

Teller should be given a chance to compete for a position, or at least be backup, and hopefully improve more next year.

 

Ike Boettger showed enough to keep around as a backup, and if he shows enough progress, a chance to compete sometime next year.

 

Mills is a borderline starter and is often a liability. More a backup and I would keep him around at backup dollars. If someone else offers him more, so be it.

 

Dawkins is passable, but may be better suited at another position than LT. If we can upgrade LT, then do so.

 

Hoping we get someone like Paradis in FA. Hoping we spend FA dollars on improving the OL, and also use multiple draft picks to improve the line.

Agree with this assessment.  Lots of work to do in FA and the draft.

[Billzgobowlin]

I could see Kalil come in if he is still playing football next year and I think he would stabilize the line,  also draft a LT or RT and keep Dawkins starting.  I'm kind of interested in seeing what Teller, Boettinger and Conor McDermott will do if given the opportunity.  I think Mills, Groy and Miller are gone and if anyone on here has any doubts Ducasse has been gone since week 9.

[frogger]

Ideally (for me,) Draft Jonah Williams (I’m concerned about his length, arms seem to be in the 34” range) 

other option is Little, Taylor or Risner I like all three in a trade down scenario, clearly Jonah having my played for our OC benefits us.

 

2nd-WR Brown

 

3rd- Ross Pierschbacher, another former Bama player that played Daboll 

 

Sign Daryl Williams from Carolina, he’s coming off an injury filled year, so his asking price won’t be as high, but he’s a quality RT.  I think McDermott is ready if called upon.

this means I’m moving Dawkins to LG, if JW struggle, move Dawkins to LT and Williams to LG.

 

Williams*-Dawkins-Pierschbacher-Teller-Williams

*or Risner/Little/Taylor

 

My $.02

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, ctk232 said:

I would hope Saffold falls into the same boat as Morse with upcoming contracts in LA, it's likely they look to either restructure an offer for him if they want to keep him, or cut ties with what's coming up in the next year or two. Either way, with a good amount of teams looking to strengthen their OL after this year, and some also for their newly found rookie QB (i.e. Zona, Jets, even Houston, Tennessee, and Carolina) we will likely end up paying more for any OL guys we bring in, than they will ultimately be worth. As FA goes.

Saffold wants to stay in LA and said he would give a home count discount to do so. He was considered a bust and kept working and has finally found his grove. He isn't leaving there unless they don't want him back imo.

51 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I could see Kalil come in if he is still playing football next year and I think he would stabilize the line,  also draft a LT or RT and keep Dawkins starting.  I'm kind of interested in seeing what Teller, Boettinger and Conor McDermott will do if given the opportunity.  I think Mills, Groy and Miller are gone and if anyone on here has any doubts Ducasse has been gone since week 9.

 

The problem with the Khalil idea is he stabilizes the line for what? One season? If he can even stay healthy. I think we need a long term starter there. 

[RPbillsfan]

I see the Bills making the following moves.

 

Do not resign, Miller, Groy or Ducasse.  

 

Resign Mills 

 

In FA

 

Try and sign Matt Paradies, Ramon Foster and Darryl Williams

 

1st Round:

 

Draft Jawaan Taylor the OT from Florida with the 9th pick

 

New 2019 Offensive Line:

 

LT - Dion Dawkins

LG - Wyatt Teller

C -   Matt Paradies

RG - Ramon Foster

RT - Jawaan Taylor

 

Depth

 

C - Jeff Bodine

Swing Tackle - Jordan Mills

G - Ike Botteger or G from draft

 

I think this line will be able to run block and provide JA time to throw

 

PS - Please draft TJ Hockenson as the inline TE

 

What are your thoughts?

[MrEpsYtown]

10 minutes ago, RPbillsfan said:

I see the Bills making the following moves.

 

Do not resign, Miller, Groy or Ducasse.  

 

Resign Mills 

 

In FA

 

Try and sign Matt Paradies, Ramon Foster and Darryl Williams

 

1st Round:

 

Draft Jawaan Taylor the OT from Florida with the 9th pick

 

New 2019 Offensive Line:

 

LT - Dion Dawkins

LG - Wyatt Teller

C -   Matt Paradies

RG - Ramon Foster

RT - Jawaan Taylor

 

Depth

 

C - Jeff Bodine

Swing Tackle - Jordan Mills

G - Ike Botteger or G from draft

 

I think this line will be able to run block and provide JA time to throw

 

PS - Please draft TJ Hockenson as the inline TE

 

What are your thoughts?

I actually like the upside of Taylor way more than the upside of Jonah Williams. Call me crazy. But I do think Taylor is really the prototype right tackle. I think there is going to be too much defensive talent on the board at 9 to draft Williams or Taylor. 

 

I think Paradis goes to a team like the Jets, though it really depends on who they hire. But he probably stays in Denver. I think Mitch Morse is the better fit, but Paradis would be cool.

 

Foster is a good player but 32. I feel strongly that they are going to target guys in that 26-27 range coming off their rookie contract. Quinton Spain, Mark Glowinski, Daryl Williams, guys like that, so that you can put together a line that can gel and have sustained success for multiple seasons. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[ctk232]

38 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Saffold wants to stay in LA and said he would give a home count discount to do so. He was considered a bust and kept working and has finally found his grove. He isn't leaving there unless they don't want him back imo.

Well that's certainly good to know, and appreciate the update. I wonder how much of a discount that will be if the Rams are looking to accommodate Goff, Gurley, Donald, and a few other OL and Defensive guys long term...

[MrEpsYtown]

21 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Well that's certainly good to know, and appreciate the update. I wonder how much of a discount that will be if the Rams are looking to accommodate Goff, Gurley, Donald, and a few other OL and Defensive guys long term...

 

Im assuming they have to let Suh walk. Maybe Ethan Westbrooks. But besides Saffold I think their main priority would be LaMarcus Joyner. They have about 30 something million in cap space next year. They could cut/trade Barron, Talib, Brockers, Peters, and Robey-Coleman take on like 5 million in dead money and gain over 40 million in cap space. Not saying they should or would, but I could see them moving 1 or two of those guys to keep Saffold and Joyner if they needed to. 

 

I would be all over Brockers if I was the Bills. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[billsfan89]

Ducasse and Groy should be gone, neither have much value. I was very disappointed in Groy and Vlad has a solid cap hit and is a very replaceable backup. Miller will likely be gone, I think his career can still be salvaged to be a starting caliber player but I think his time here is gone. Mills should be resigned as a backup but I could see him going either way. Bodine should stay as depth and Ike should be given a shot to make the roster. 

 

Dawkins is the only starting caliber player you can lock in, Teller I think will be a starting guard because you can't replace everyone. There should be 3 new starters on the o-line and possibly a new backup or two. 

 

Ideally I think the O-line should be

LT- Dawkins

LG- Saffold (Or other high end free agent) 

C- Pradis (Or other high end free agent) 

RG- Teller

RT- Mills/High draft pick

 

Bench - Bodine, Mills/high draft pick, and Ike or a mid to late round rookie. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

It's not so much a question of which mediocrity stays of goes but more a question of us, however we do it, obtaining three quality offensive linemen.  First round pick or top FA lineman, a tackle, please.

[Green Lightning]

Paradis will never make it to FA, he'll be resigned.

[GreggTX]

I think Mills, Bodine and Miller can all be easily replaced and upgraded. Also, Mills is not average. He is well below average and wouldn't even make a number of rosters. Why do people think he's average anyways?

[MrEpsYtown]

I will keep beating the Mitch Morse drum, but he's a better player than Paradis. I know PFF grades Paradis higher, but Paradis is a zone center. Smallish, athletic, Gary Kubiak type center, Tom Nalen type. He is not scheme versatile. Morse can fit into any scheme, blocks with power and is really good pass blocking. He's had some injuries, but he is the better player and fit. If we wind up bringing in zone type scheme next year, then Paradis makes sense, but Morse is the guy you really want. He's a great fit for Buffalo. Don't be blinded by PFF grades, look at the whole picture. Morse has been huge for Mahomes and would be great for Josh. Morse has injury concerns, but he is the better player. 

[hemma]

Just read that Boetteger tore his Achilles in September 2017, so was not 100% during otas or camp.

 

Seems to have good technique and may be a solid surprise (quicker & stronger) for us in 2019.

[MrEpsYtown]

24 minutes ago, hemma said:

Just read that Boetteger tore his Achilles in September 2017, so was not 100% during otas or camp.

 

Seems to have good technique and may be a solid surprise (quicker & stronger) for us in 2019.

 

He would have definitely been a draftable prospect if he didn't have that injury. There is a little pedigree there. I like his potential. 

[nucci]

On 1/3/2019 at 6:35 AM, RobbRiddick said:

Someone like Mills I would keep for depth but no way would I keep him as a starter. 

but he may have to start at one point...why keep him if he's not good enough?

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

He would have definitely been a draftable prospect if he didn't have that injury. There is a little pedigree there. I like his potential. 

 

Me too. I liked his play last pre-season too.

[CSBill]

Excellent thread, I read every post.

 

My 2 cents:

 

I think the Bills are committed to building a "young" line that can grow around Allen and feel they have starter quality people in Ike Boettinger and Conor McDermott. They trusted them enough to carry 10 o-lineman during the season. I'm assuming because they did not want to lose either from practice-squad grabs by other teams. Think about it, if Dawkins and Teller continue to develop, that is a young nucleus to keep around for many years. But I know those are big assumptions for all four---each has had bright spots, but none are a sure thing at this point. Are the issues here is coaching? Were they held back or slowed by Cas.? It may be a question of how much they trust in the new guy's ability?

 

Having said that, two other thoughts:

 

1) Definitely, seek to add a starter on Day 1 of the draft. It appears there are 3-4 Tackles that could do that. But it also appears none are worthy of #9 pick (Williams, maybe?). If a trade down allows us to get an extra pick and a starting o-lineman, do it. If you believe in one of them enough to pick at 9, do it. I think this fits with the theme above (youth, that will be around for many years). In this scenario, the one glaring need is a true center. Is that Boettinger? Or, keep Bodine and look next year? Or, sign a quality FA? Ideally, quality FA, Day 1 pick, and keep and build with the young guys (Draftie, DD, WT, IK, CMcD)

 

2) It is offend said Mills is a top run blocker, but not good in pass protection. Has he ever played guard? Yes, guards have to pass protect, but I don't believe they have to be as athletic as a Tackle. Doesn't moving him to guard play to his strength as a run blocker? The objection here is, if he could do that, he would be there already. And, it works against the youth theme above. At his age, would he fit the plan to build a line that can grow around Allen?