Josh Allen---has your opinion changed on him since draft night?

[Lurker]

He was not my guy, but I'm happy with his development so far.

 

The biggest thing he showed me as a rookie was his competitive fire.   He was going to drag that sorry azz offense down the field somehow, someway and didn't care how he did it.   He's still got many mechanical issues, but the willpower to be a franchise QB is there and I'm looking forward to year two...

[CowboyBill]

Not a single thing has surprised me this year. That’s because I saw it all during the last few years. Just watching the highlights does not tell you who JA is. You have to watch him through the whole game and week to week. He has grown a lot this year, but his very first win in Laramie was in an overtime game where he had to scramble on like 4th down to score a touchdown. It was a completely busted play where he should have been sacked/tackled multiple times. 

 

Its been hard hard being a Wyoming fan and a JA fan. Listening to all of the people that hated him and thought he was a bust. No one really knew him. He is a different kind of player. You just have to throw the stats out know he is going to do everything in his power to win and get better. 

 

Reading all of these posts just gives me chills  because everything I have know about him for so many years is starting to become evident to so many new people. Get ready for the ride because it’s going to be fun!

Edited January 3, 2019 by CowboyBill

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You know who this reminds me of?  A certain RB who was very annoyed that he wasn't a 1st round pick.  

 

Not one NFL talent evaluator ever pegged Thurmal as a potential bust.  He was a Heisman candidate in his senior year (finishing seventh in voting) and was a first team All-American in 1985 and 1987.  He left OSU as the school's all-time leading rusher and his number 34 was one of only three jerseys retired at Oklahoma State.

 

Was he embarassed that he didn't go higher in the draft?   No question.   Was he a reach or projection.    No way...

[racketmaster]

38 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

I was a Rosen guy admittedly. And admittedly I have been a bit disappointed this year. I’m also really excited about Allen. He is a fun player to watch behind center...that said the book isn’t written on either. There is reason to be cautiously optimistic about Allen. And cautiously pessimistic about Rosen. 

 

What i I dislike about this is poo pooing analytics or stats. What people liked about Rosen was they he was a more “precise passer” (seems to be a buzz word around these parts. That his college career in most categories gave him a chance at a higher success rate than Allen. No matter how their careers pan out that still true. If Allen turns into Favre and Rosen into Edwards, that doesn’t change the probability coming out of college. 

 

Just because a FO swam against the current once, doesn’t mean it is good practice. And just because you swim perpendicular to shore in a rip tide, and still drowned, doesn’t mean it’s a flawed practice.

 

no matter what happens a bunch of us will be right and a bunch of us wrong. Still, nobody knows and people need to be less polarizing about it. 

I like analytics and think they are useful but I do think they can be relied on too heavily especially when using college stats to predict NFL success. There are so many variables in college as teams can have significant gaps in talent and coaching. Teams can scheme more because the likelihood of any college team having a very weak safety, corner or lb is high. There are more weak links to be attacked. In the NFL, everyone on the field was a top player in college and there is not as much of a gap in player talent. 

 

There are many college quarterbacks who have put up huge numbers at the college level but never got drafted or did anything in the NFL. The NFL still requires a certain skill set in order to be effective and a player who lacks certain skills often gets exposed at the NFL level. For example, a weaker armed qb may be able to get away with throws in college, throwing mostly to certain parts of the field, rely on schemes to find wide open WRs etc. But it often fails at the NFL level because windows are tighter and NFL defensive coaches scheme to take away strengths. That’s where the scouts come in relying on their experience watching practice and games to make sure a player passes the eye test and then combining that with all the other info to include medical, backgrounds, interviews and analytics. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by racketmaster

[Max Fischer]

Allen was my favorite until I started to listen to the chorus of analysts who said he was too inaccurate. However, that was clearly over hyped and he won me over in pre-season when he demonstrated supreme athleticism, a cool head, leadership and an ability to learn from his mistakes. I have great hope for his ability to be a transformative player. 

[formerlyofCtown]

I had him as the second highest rated QB with an insanely high ceiling.  The only thing thats changed is I wouldnt trade him for Baker Mayfield now.

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Everybody wanted Rosen because they looked at his stat sheet and compared it to Allen's and automatically assumed he was the better QB. The problem with doing that is the talent between the two schools is disproportionate to each others. I think even a marginal QB would have put up big numbers at UCLA. Allen had nothing to work with at Wyoming yet he still made big big plays. I had no idea he was so athletic though, that I was unaware of. I knew he'd be good but he exceeded my expectations going into the season and I think he can be better than Baker Mayfield in the long run and I think his accuracy will continue to climb. In my heart of hearts I think we got the last good QB in the draft. I think Arizona and Baltimore missed the bus.

Not everybody.

[Bring it]

I felt real uneasy about drafting Allen. Was sure that Rosen was the guy and didn’t feel that Mayfield will have much upside to his game. Still don’t! 

Josh Allen has really impressed me, especially with his athleticism! In no way did I think he was that gifted besides that cannon! The game slowed down much quicker for him than I expected and I absolutely love his attitude and poise!! He has things to work on like slants , swing passes and some passes that he doesn’t need to laser in there. But he does show touch at times like the short pass to Ivory as he was headed out of bounds. Perfect pass just out of reach of the defender! 

I’m really glad he is ours now!

[CDogg20]

I was terrified of the pick when it happened. I thought “oh jeeze here we go again, another botched first round pick” but after year 1 I have completely reversed my thoughts. Josh is a stud! This kid will bring us to the playoffs more times than he won’t once we get him more talent. I love everything i’ve seen from him especially his leadership and fire on the field! 

[fansince88]

Yes, I hope we pick him at #9

[BillsFan692]

Josh Allen is a stud the future is bright!

[Cripple Creek]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

For me, I didnt want him. I believed all the hype with his terrible completion percentage, that he wasn't ready, etc etc...

 

I am a pretty big fan after watching his first year play out I have to admit. Accuracy is an issue but not as much as I think most people believe. Yes he makes some bad throws, but throwing the ball away, deeper throws than normal and dropped passes are a much bigger factor in his incompletions than his inaccuracy. in fact I was surprised to see his accuracy be so much better than i imagined...I was envisioning balls all over the place and terrible ball placement but I didnt see a lot of that. Were there some throws he would like back? Yeah sure there were...did he appear to be a 51.4% completion QB based on the accuracy of his throws? No way...

 

His athleticism is off the charts, dude is crazy fast for his size and is explosive when running. He hits top speed quickly and can really move...you can see this by how many times a defender thinks they have him and takes a bad angle only to have Allen blow by the guy without him even touching him.

 

I think shoring up the protection, and giving Allen some more weapons to work with will do a lot towards helping him improve his completion percentage.

 

Do i think he will ever be a 65% completion QB? No. He will probably be similar to Cam Newton hovering around upper 50s to low 60s. I think we can still win with that based on how often he throws deeper passes and improving the talent around him.

 

Needless to say I'm excited to see how things work out as he gets a full off season and all the work in minicamps and training camps as the undisputed #1 QB with continued help from Anderson and Barkley who he credits for a lot of his development in little nuances and understanding the game better.

 

So has your opinion changed on Josh Allen from the draft to now? 

 

I don't mean to sound like a richard, but I'll probably fail miserably here.  My opinion on him is still forming (I like what I see especially from a teammate/leadership perspective). I hadn't seen him prior to preseason so I had no opinion.  How could I have an opinion on something I hadn't witnessed?  I realize that doesn't stop many here but that's not my thing.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Everybody wanted Rosen because they looked at his stat sheet and compared it to Allen's and automatically assumed he was the better QB. 

 

What a terrible assumption to make 

[Andy1]

Before the draft, after watching a lot of college film, I was hoping we would end up with Darnold first or Allen second. I didn’t like Rosen’s attitude and felt he was injury prone like Bradford. I also didn’t think Mayfield’s game would translate to the nfl. 

 

When I saw Allen in college, his arm was obviously a big difference between him and every other prospect. You also see his mobility and the ability to make plays that you just can’t teach. He also showed great balance being very nimble in escaping pass rushers. The big unknown with him was would any of this translate well to the nfl where he would be playing against elite athletes, instead of the mountain west. In college, he seemed like a kid with super human athletic ability who was trying to figure out how to make it all work. That canon of an arm needed to be tamed and trained and he didn’t have the coaching the other prospects had. 

 

Another thing in the back of my mind was that Allen had the same college coach as Carson Wentz. One from North Dakota, the other from Wyoming. Both schools are unknowns in the world of power college football. We knew Wentz was successful, but I mean, what are the odds of both of these guys being capable nfl starting QBs? Throw in the years of mental abuse I have suffered being a Bills fan, and I had plenty of doubt mixed with my fans hope, before the season began. 

 

Well, we now know that a whole lot of Allen’s game works in the nfl. He has shown athletic ability that is off the charts. His arm is getting tamed and trained. Mentally, he has everything you want and none of the stuff you don’t want. We have seen the worst he is going to play. Things will only improve with more talent and experience from here on forward.  I can say that I now have a full on bromance with him, unlike any other Bills QB we have had. I know I will be watching his highlight videos over and over in the off season, just to get me through to training camp. Until then, can’t wait till next season.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

He still has issues with the easy throws, mainly the swing passes and screens.

 

Plus he passes those throws up a little too much.

 

Hopefully he works tirelessly on that and then next year he uses the opportunities to get those easy completions.

 

Hell, Tom Brady has lived off the RB completion for years now.

 

There is some work to put in on the pre-snap reads and the short passes, but how many rookie QBs have the stones to throw a perfect swing pass to a defensive tackle, a legend and fan-favorite, with the stadium going nuts, in his last game as a Buffalo Bill without effing it up?

 

That was a perfect swing pass, with just the right touch, and Kyle looked like a natural catching it.

 

The needle is pointing North for this kid.

 

 

 

 

[Abill in Denver]

The last few years i was excited to watch the Bills on defense. This year, all week long i couldn't wait to see this kid

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

My hope is that this will ultimately be the difference between Allen and his boom/bust predecessors. Anecdotally, it would seem guys with such natural talent are unwilling to put in the work required to improve because they'd always gotten by on talent alone. Perhaps Allen's history of being overlooked by the likes of Fresno State separates him from the Jake Locker's who were handed everything before entering the NFL. It's really an oddity that someone so obviously gifted had to go the Juco/Wyoming route.

 

Some of the things I read said that one of the key reasons he was not recruited hard out of HS was because Allen hadn't yet committed to football and spread himself thin over multiple sports while in High School.  

[Big Turk]

28 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

I don't mean to sound like a richard, but I'll probably fail miserably here.  My opinion on him is still forming (I like what I see especially from a teammate/leadership perspective). I hadn't seen him prior to preseason so I had no opinion.  How could I have an opinion on something I hadn't witnessed?  I realize that doesn't stop many here but that's not my thing.

 

No its cool. Well there were lots of clips to watch of him and some people watched Wyoming games as well...enough stuff so that at least some incomplete opinions could be formed

[Success]

I would go as far to say that if there was a re-draft and we had the top pick, I’d want the Bills to pick him over the other guys.

 

Mayfield is great and I love his game and attitude, but Allen just seems like more of a Buffalo kind of guy.  Probably because he reminds me a bit of Kelly.  They used to say that Kelly had a linebackers toughness and mentality, and I see that in Josh.  Especially whe he tried to strip the ball on that pick 6.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

My hope is that this will ultimately be the difference between Allen and his boom/bust predecessors. Anecdotally, it would seem guys with such natural talent are unwilling to put in the work required to improve because they'd always gotten by on talent alone. Perhaps Allen's history of being overlooked by the likes of Fresno State separates him from the Jake Locker's who were handed everything before entering the NFL. It's really an oddity that someone so obviously gifted had to go the Juco/Wyoming route.

 

Allen has said he was 6'3" and 180 lbs coming out of high school and he kept getting stronger and faster.  So his physical gifts weren't as obvious during recruiting.

 

I think you've tagged some of the points Trent Dilfer misses when he opines about how Allen is "breaking his heart" and he "shouldn't be playing", analogizing from his own career.  Dilfer was raised in a small town, true, but a coastal community just south of Santa Cruz in the '80s.   Very different culture than central CA and Firebaugh.  Dilfer was recruited to Fresno, where he played 3 years, declaring early.  I'm not saying he didn't work hard, but it was pretty much a smooth path for him.  Star in high school, recruited, star in college, highly-touted draft prospect.  Allen had to scrap to get a JUCO gig, then scrap to get a shot at Wyoming, then faced a lot of skepticism and criticism coming out.  Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I think Allen's head is in a bit of a different place because of his relatively hard-knocks background.

 

22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Some of the things I read said that one of the key reasons he was not recruited hard out of HS was because Allen hadn't yet committed to football and spread himself thin over multiple sports while in High School.  

 

Well, that, and he was apparently a bit of a scrawny beanpole

[technobot]

I was very pessimistic on Day 1 of the draft; I'm not a scout and I didn't watch much if any film or tape (is that a thing in 2018) on him... so will freely admit my judgement was formed by the analysts and whatever I had read leading up to the draft.  I was unimpressed and becoming depressed before his injury, even with the Vikings game (although that game obviously showed some flashes).  Post injury, he has started looking like he can be "it", and I started becoming cautiously optimistic.

 

Now?  Yeah, I'm all in.  He's obviously not "there" yet, but I think he can get there.  His ceiling is sky-high, and I'm still of the belief he doesn't even have to reach it for this team to be successful as long as Beane and McDermott do their jobs and surround Allen with the proper pieces:  other playmakers on offense, and a stout offensive line.  It looks like the Bills are on the way to building a good, potentially elite defense, and that can only help a young quarterback.

 

I've always been the first to comment to my friends "a running quarterback will eventually get himself killed" and that is still my worry for Allen, but man... the kid is a pure playmaker.  Watching him run is hilarious:  this giant white kid who isn't even sneaky fast, he's just fast, full stop.  I remember being frustrated watching EJ Manuel because I had been told EJ could run and be a playmaker yet I never saw him do anything like Allen has.  His ability to scramble, extend, improvise and fling is reminiscent of Roethlisberger, except he's not getting killed out there... yet and hopefully ever. 

 

Agreed that he must improve as a passer, but I don't think he's going to be the Brady type and don't think he needs to be, either.  He definitely has to improve his accuracy, but for me, it's best to temper expectations realistically and realize he'll never be pinpoint accurate... and that's OK.  It goes without saying that pairing this kid with a "catch anything, large radius" type WR (like what Benjamin was advertised to be) will make Allen positively lethal.  While understanding the Miami game was not a do or die type game against an elite opponent, Allen still made passes he wasn't making earlier in the year, against professionals whose job is to prevent such passes.  I think part of the package will be several throws every game that will be in another area code and will occasionally make you shake your head.

 

He's clearly a process guy, and will try his hardest to become the guy the Bills need... if he doesn't get there it certainly won't be from lack of effort, or off the field stupidity, or ego, or any other nonsense.  This is a strange spot for me because for the first time since Kelly... there's legitimate hope (for me) that the Bills have a guy who might truly be the franchise QB they've been searching decades for.