Josh Allen---has your opinion changed on him since draft night?

[Rubes]

Yeah, like others my heart sank a bit when they selected him, thinking that Rosen would be the better choice. That said, I really didn't know much about Allen other than what the talking heads were saying.

 

I really enjoyed watching him this year, which for me is as important as anything. I also think he managed to have a pretty decent season with one of the worst offensive supporting casts I've seen in my 40-some odd years of watching this damn team, and I've seen some pretty bad ones. That gives me hope for next year, when (presumably) he'll have a better O-line and more weapons to work with.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

47 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Complete 180 after his injury.

 

since the injury: 3-3, 8 tds, 7 ints, 5 rushing tds, 207 yards pass per game, 79 yards rushing per game, 286 yards offense per game and AFC Offensive Player of the Week in week 17.

 

Like Freddie's Dead said, I liked the pick then but love it now.  I was a Mayfield/Rosen guy headed in.

 

I am pleased and I have little to no reservations on this kid.  I am so excited for the future.

 

I am sleeping better at night and my hair is beginning to grow back, as proof.

[Logic]

I will admit to buying into all the anti-Allen hype. I was a huge Mayfield guy. I was also convinced the Bills liked Darnold and would find a way to get up high enough to take him. Once Mayfield and Darnold were off the board, it simplified things. The Bills realistically could only choose between the Joshes (assuming they didn't like Lamar Jackson, of which I was pretty confident). So when Roger Goodell said "The Buffalo Bills select Josh...." , time stopped. That half second felt like a millenium. I so badly wanted the next word to be "Rosen". I just KNEW Allen would be a bust. JP Losman/EJ Manuel part three.

I. WAS. WRONG.

I'm not saying this guy's gonna be a Hall of Famer or anything. But boy oh boy, did I underestimate his talent. He has an absolutely TRANSCENDENT level of talent. He often appears to be the best and most athletic player on the field from either team. He sometimes seems to be a one-man offense. And this is AS A ROOKIE. He has less than 16 games under his belt in the NFL, and he's already taking over football games at times. 

Aside from his obvious physical talents (he may be the most physically talented QB to ever step foot on an NFL field, and that's not an exaggeration), he has shown heart, infectious enthusiasm, obvious leadership skills, swagger, and guts. He is the PERFECT quarterback for the city of Buffalo, he is a leader of men, and as several analysts have said, he's "Must-see TV". He's also really easy to root for due to his personality, humility, and background story -- I mean...throwing rocks into a garbage bin on a farm in the middle of nowhere? Come on, man!

So yeah, my opinion has changed. I was wrong wrong wrong, and crow never tasted so good!

Edited January 2, 2019 by Logic

[CincyBillsFan]

I was all in on Allen after stumbling across a Wyoming game a couple of years earlier.  The kid just seemed to have that IT factor and for sure his games were fun to watch if not just for the sheer mayhem & entertainment value. 

 

I also remember hearing about the kids story and how none of the elite or for that matter crappy college programs would give him a chance.  I thought "man, sending out a thousand tapes and hearing back from only 2 programs, that had to hurt"! 

 

Then after Buffalo drafted him and a whole lot of "experts" came out and slammed the pick saying that he could never be an NFL QB given his accuracy issues I got worried and thought uh oh did the bills screw this up?  But again I read some in depth stories on Allen's journey to the NFL and thought the "experts" were missing something very important.  It was the factor that TroutDog posted above - Allen has had very little QB training in his lifetime. 

 

He didn't attend the prestigious QB camps during high school.  I suspect his Jr College game plans consisted of having him either running by or over defenders and Wyoming wasn't exactly an Air Raid passing program.  But when I saw how much just a few weeks with Jordan Palmer had improved his mechanics I thought this kid could learn to be accurate.  He was a perfect example of a blank canvass/raw QB talent.

 

Now I'll throw out the usual disclaimer that he needs to further develop and master the intricacies of the game.  And he might never actually reach an elite or even an average level of QB play in the NFL.  But I'm optimistic that he will in fact be an elite level QB in a way I haven't been since Kelly showed up to a hero's welcome back in 1986. 

[SCBills]

I talked myself into him when we drafted Allen, but wasn't truly sure what to expect.

 

I am 100% on board and think he's going to be big time.   I'd probably take him over any QB in the 2018 draft class because I think he can do what Baker is doing, and more, with weapons like Mayfield has.

 

It seems everyone but Arizona (so far) feels like winners in the 2018 1st Round QB Draft Bonanza. 

 

I think we may have an elite QB on our hands here for the first time since Kelly.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by SCBills

[elroy16]

No question. Like many I was not happy with the pick. Like others, I easily talked myself into it because at least they got a QB.

 

I think the reason my opinion has changed so much is because of how much he progressed throughout the year. Early in the year he threw some WR screens in the dirt, wasn't always going through his reads, took too many sacks, and bailed on decent pockets. After his injury he was making more accurate short passes, staying in pockets, making more consistent throws and really just looked a lot better. 

 

Even after the injury, the first game or two he took some hits while scrambling and then he started running out of bounds or sliding to protect himself. I didn't expect to see as clear an improvement week to week as he showed. 

 

 

I'm expecting him to take a solid step in the right direction over the offseason. He appears to have the right work ethic and desire to be great. He's obviously not there yet, but I have a lot more confidence he can be successful than I have been about a Bills QB in a long time. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Complete 180 after his injury.

 

That was a blessing in disguise. He needed some time off to let things slow down. 

[GunnerBill]

Yes it has. My view on him was always that his ceiling was very high.... I just put the % chance of him reaching it as pretty low. I think the biggest thing I was wrong on was his running ability and the extent to which that would help him have success early. My view on his running was "mobile, can make some plays with his legs but he is not Tyrod Taylor who can beat teams with his legs." I was completely wrong on that. He looks a faster and more natural runner in the pros than he did in college to me. Is that scheme? Is it coaching? Is it a professional strength and conditioning programme? Who knows.... but it has definitely accelerated his development. I have said it before about the likes of Wilson and Luck and Watson... that ability to make a play with your legs is so big when things break down as a rookie. In the long run you want your QB to see things breaking down as an opportunity to play Aaron Rodgers esque playground football and throw the ball to an area where coverage has broken down. But when rookies do that it often spells trouble and a few times when Allen has done that it has led to picks or near picks. I much prefer when a rookie in that scenario can tuck it and run and move the chains. Allen does that but he does more than that at times too.... he isn't just looking for the marker then getting down he is looking to make a play. In the long run I do want him to look for the marker and get down more - it has been a big improvement in Deshaun Watson's game this year that coming off the knee surgery he has realised that you have to protect yourself more.... but as a rookie when everything is still happening so fast around you rather than making a bad decision, tuck the ball and run.

 

As for him as a passer..... I think he has developed and my view has developed as he has. I still don't believe he is ever going to be a precision passer from the pocket. But I think he is a guy who can be accurate enough to make enough plays with a good cast around him and he has shown enough accuracy going down the football field to make teams legitimately have to defend that. If we can get a couple of weapons that they really fear and an improved offensive line that should mean Shady, and his eventual successor, are running against light boxes for a few years to come. He still isn't yet where he needs to be as a passer to win consistently from the pocket in the National Football League which is where all sustainable success comes from. But I feel a hell of a lot better about his chances of getting there now than I did when he was coming out.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

I think he'll end up being more consistently accurate than Newton.

 

 

And without all the Diva qualities! 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Bills2ref said:

I did not think he would have the type of running ability in the pro game that he has shown. 

None of us did. I don't think there was any reason for us to believe he would be this prolific of a runner. He wasn't even this good a runner at the college level I don't think. It's remarkable what he did in the final six games. And he has two highlight reel plays that show his athleticism. Plays I have never seen a QB make. The hurdle over Barr and the juke and subsequent use of Kiko as a lead blocker.

 

Here is another look at how he compares to the greatest rushing QB of all time, Mike Vick.

 

Vick's two best six game rushing streaks in his career:

 

2004-  60 rushes  504 yards 8.4 ypc  1 TD

2006- 63 rushes  488  yards 7.7 ypc  0 TDs

 

Josh Allen

2018- 54 rushes 476 yards 8.8 ypc 5 TDs

 

After just reviewing the game logs of guys like Newton and RGIII i believe Allen's total of 476 yards in the third highest total in league history. And it is arguably better than Vicks when you consider the higher ypc and 5 TDs.

 

The Detroit game was the only game I was not able to watch this year. I'm curious how Detroit was able to put the clamps on Allen in that game. 9 rushes for only 16 yards. I think there may have been a couple kneel downs in that game but still 16 yards is nothing for Josh.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Was totally against it and now I'm in love with the kid. I'm a total sucker but that comes with being a fan. He's more exciting and fun than any Bills QB in my lifetime.

 

Hoping he takes a big jump next year and we surround him with weapons. 

[Big Turk]

53 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

 

Maybe one of the other 19 'now how do you feel about josh allen' would have been a good place to offer your opinion? But, as YOUR opinion is special it no doubt deserved its own thread. 

 

Happy New Year!

I am special...I rode the short bus to school...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It seems everyone but Arizona (so far) feels like winners in the 2018 1st Round QB Draft Bonanza.  I think we may have an elite QB on our hands here for the first time since Kelly.

 

I'll say this about Rosen, and I didn't catch any Arizona games at all this year really, compliments to him for just staying healthy the entire year. He took a ton of sacks and who knows how many more hits. He was thought of as being the most fragile but he was able to stay on the field. Not meant as a knock to any other QB, just something that I think is actually a positive if you are a Cardinals fan.

[Virgil]

Yes, absolutely.  I still have him 3rd of the rookies, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.  

 

I think he has the potential to be 2nd if not up there for 1st.  

 

We get him a run game, tight end, and true #1 receiver, and I’ll be really curious.  

 

Without a doubt can make all the throws, (quick slants aside) has the toughness, downfield vision, and heart.  It’s a good start 

[JM57]

Was not happy with the pick, mostly because he had the lowest floor. Possibly highest ceiling, but definitely lowest floor, and that worried me. I had very little faith in this staff to properly develop him to avoid that floor.

 

After 11 or 12 games, I think he's shown just enough that the worry of his floor has gone away. I think there is a long way for the kid to go, but his floor at least isn't a complete trainwreck. 

[racketmaster]

Watching his Wyoming games you could immediately see he was a special talent. His arm talent, size and athleticism jumps off the screen. You saw (especially his 2017 year) that he had little to no supporting cast. He played alot of “hero” ball and he loved to push the ball down the field even though he had limited weapons on the outside. 

 

You also had an almost unprecedented amount of Allen critics. There were major flags when analyzing his statistics and this caused much of the concerns. You also had those occasional throws that were totally off the mark because his mechanics got sloppy. Those throws opened the door for his critics to “show” how bad he would be as a pro. The negative noise was so loud I began to question my own opinion of Allen. Ultimately, I liked the pick and trusted the opinions of many long time scouts and coaches who liked Allen rather than the analytics guys. 

 

Its not that analytics aren’t useful or cannot be trusted, but there has to be some context. When watching the games, you could see he was better the previous year when he had a few decent players around him. His supporting cast was awful last year and the team relied on him to carry the offense. His WRs got so little separation and the throws he attempted to make were often in small windows 15+ yards downfield. There were a ton of NFL elite arm throws in his tape. And some were completed, others were dropped and others were just batted down by defenders blanketing the wr. You also saw him too often struggle with easier shorter throws that gave the Twitter critics more ammunition.

 

What I really liked was the kids competitive fire and the fact he never threw his teammates under the bus for not helping him in any way. No bad facial expressions or complaining. One play caught my eye and it was one of the first games I saw of Allen. It was the Iowa game and there was a play where there was a jailbreak and Allen ended up running around the pocket breaking and dragging Iowa defenders. It may have been a no gain play but it literally took 7-8 Iowa defenders to bring him down to the ground. He fought so hard and would not give up. It’s something in his character and it shows in his play (often good like extending plays to Ivory last week) and other times throwing the ball up to a Jets defender a few weeks ago when he was trying to do to much. He is competitive and has a hard time giving up on a play. 

 

I think most of his critics (speaking of Bills fans) had not watched a lot of his games if any. They heard the noise and were scared we made a mistake and would be made fun of by the media and other fans. But once fans got to see him in training camp and in preseason, you could see opinions starting to change. He started off pretty rough once the regular season began and he lost some of those fans who had come on board. Heck, I started to question whether he could process the game at the level it requires. But there were still flashes that gave you hope and when he came back from injury he has not looked back. With the stretch run he put together I think the Bills found their guy and most fans are on board with Allen going forward. I keep going back to this: It’s really hard to be a bust when you have elite arm strength, the ability to make incredible throws on the run, his running ability, competitiveness,intelligence, leadership/character, love of playing the game, and confidence measured with some degree of humility. He checks most every box and his flags were poor mechanics in short throws and inadequate mental processing. Hard work and experience can improve the negatives so that they are less obvious than they are now. Because he is so competitive and loves the game, I feel the hard work part will be a given. Sky’s the limit with this kid. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by racketmaster

[NoHuddleKelly12]

It’s gotten even better—I was prepared to roll with either Josh at the time, but hindsight being what it is, it’s starting to become clearer that he’s got what it takes and arguably has done more in his limited starts and with limited talent around him this year than any of the rest of his class minus Baker, yet his ceiling has also just as clearly not been reached. That alone makes me even more optimistic about next season. Couple that with glimpses into what makes him tick as a person, such as the Super Cade story, and I’m all in. 

[CLTbills]

Hell yeah. I was crushed on draft night. Watching Beane masterfully move up to 7, without giving away the future of the franchise, I couldn't believe how perfect everything was going. I thought they were going to have to trade up to #2 ahead of the Jets, but to only have to go to 7 (and all of the QBs other than Baker and Darnold still available), I couldn't believe how everything was turning out. Then they said "Josh"... but when it was "Allen" instead of "Rosen", I thought, here we go again. 10 more years of misery. I was devastated.

 

I have never been more happy to be wrong and to eat crow. Here's to the future league/Super Bowl MVP! ?

[Dr. K]

Yes

[Big Turk]

18 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

The Detroit game was the only game I was not able to watch this year. I'm curious how Detroit was able to put the clamps on Allen in that game. 9 rushes for only 16 yards. I think there may have been a couple kneel downs in that game but still 16 yards is nothing for Josh.

 

In that game as soon as Allen started running it looked like Detroit had 3 or 4 guys running to him...I'll bet they played a lot of zone coverage which means they were able to keep facing forward and see when Allen was running