The Frankish Reich Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Today: Ravens leading the Browns late. 296 yards on the ground, including 92 from Lamar Jackson; offense is just plain better than it was with Flacco, and yes, the running game in general (even other ballcarriers) is better with Jackson opening things up. Josh Allen: 95 yards rushing; Bills 42 points. Just a couple seasons ago, we were being told that the Kaepernicks and Vicks of recent years were now a thing of the past, and that pocket passers are the future. Not so fast! On the homefront, my biggest takeaway from Josh Allen's rookie campaign is this: very effective when he doesn't hesitate to run; very ineffective when he tries to be a pocket passer. Set Josh free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 My takeaway is that Josh must've always been the biggest, fastest kid on the field growing up...but this is the NFL. While super fun to watch, it'll end up getting him seriously injured in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: My takeaway is that Josh must've always been the biggest, fastest kid on the field growing up...but this is the NFL. While super fun to watch, it'll end up getting him seriously injured in 2019. His worst hits have been when he stayed in the bills version of a pocket. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Quick: Name a running QB who has perennially led his team to the playoffs. This off-season opposing DC’s will study the running QBs and figure out ways to force them to play from the pocket. Allen’s future and that of other running QBs will be decided on how they throw the ball. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: My takeaway is that Josh must've always been the biggest, fastest kid on the field growing up...but this is the NFL. While super fun to watch, it'll end up getting him seriously injured in 2019. I wish every great athlete could somehow also turn into Tom Brady, Elite Pocket Passer. But they can't. So I'm willing to take my chances with Josh Allen as a kind of Kaepernick 2.0. He's electric when running, whether it results in a pass downfield or a run. Not every Allen can become a Brady or Rodgers (a kind of restrained runner), but it's just as true that not every Bortles can become a Josh Allen. And there's always the Russell Wilson example to fall back on regarding fear of injury ... 3 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Quick: Name a running QB who has perennially led his team to the playoffs. This off-season opposing DC’s will study the running QBs and figure out ways to force them to play from the pocket. Allen’s future and that of other running QBs will be decided on how they throw the ball. It's kind of far away, like almost in that far-flung part of Canada or something, but I've heard of a young man who plays QB in Seattle who seems to fit the bill. Games Rushing Receiving Total Yds Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 2012* 24 SEA QB 3 16 16 94 489 4 25 5.2 30.6 5.9 94 5.2 489 4 6 2013* 25 SEA QB 3 16 16 96 539 1 27 5.6 33.7 6.0 96 5.6 539 1 12 2014 26 SEA QB 3 16 16 118 849 6 55 7.2 53.1 7.4 1 1 17 17.0 0 17 0.1 1.1 100.0% 119 7.3 866 6 13 2015* 27 SEA QB 3 16 16 103 553 1 24 5.4 34.6 6.4 103 5.4 553 1 7 2016 28 SEA QB 3 16 16 72 259 1 18 3.6 16.2 4.5 2 2 14 7.0 1 15 0.1 0.9 100.0% 74 3.7 273 2 8 2017* 29 SEA QB 3 16 16 95 586 3 31 6.2 36.6 5.9 Edited December 31, 2018 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I wish every great athlete could somehow also turn into Tom Brady, Elite Pocket Passer. But they can't. So I'm willing to take my chances with Josh Allen as a kind of Kaepernick 2.0. He's electric when running, whether it results in a pass downfield or a run. Not every Allen can become a Brady or Rodgers (a kind of restrained runner), but it's just as true that not every Bortles can become a Josh Allen. And there's always the Russell Wilson example to fall back on regarding fear of injury ... It's kind of far away, like almost in that far-flung part of Canada or something, but I've heard of a young man who plays QB in Seattle who seems to fit the bill. Games Rushing Receiving Total Yds Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 2012* 24 SEA QB 3 16 16 94 489 4 25 5.2 30.6 5.9 94 5.2 489 4 6 2013* 25 SEA QB 3 16 16 96 539 1 27 5.6 33.7 6.0 96 5.6 539 1 12 2014 26 SEA QB 3 16 16 118 849 6 55 7.2 53.1 7.4 1 1 17 17.0 0 17 0.1 1.1 100.0% 119 7.3 866 6 13 2015* 27 SEA QB 3 16 16 103 553 1 24 5.4 34.6 6.4 103 5.4 553 1 7 2016 28 SEA QB 3 16 16 72 259 1 18 3.6 16.2 4.5 2 2 14 7.0 1 15 0.1 0.9 100.0% 74 3.7 273 2 8 2017* 29 SEA QB 3 16 16 95 586 3 31 6.2 36.6 5.9 Wilson is the only one of his kind and OC's struggle (ask Darrell Bevell) to game-plan with him. Wilson's game is dependent on moving around regardless of the play-call: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell Meanwhile, classic drop-back QBs are the most likely path to winning each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanSD Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Quick: Name a running QB who has perennially led his team to the playoffs. John Elway and Steve Young. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Quick: Name a running QB who has perennially led his team to the playoffs. This off-season opposing DC’s will study the running QBs and figure out ways to force them to play from the pocket. Allen’s future and that of other running QBs will be decided on how they throw the ball. Brett Favre and Fran Tarkenton come to mind. The thing is JA can play from the pocket but if you go man to man you better have your head on a swivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsFanSD said: John Elway and Steve Young. In 1987 John Elway rushed for 304 yards In 1992 Steve Young rushed for 537 In 11 games Josh Allen rushed for 536 Elway and Young weren't running QBs. They were mobile QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, JMF2006 said: Brett Favre and Fran Tarkenton come to mind. The thing is JA can play from the pocket but if you go man to man you better have your head on a swivel. Fran Tarkenton played literally decades ago. What he did in the 60s and 70s isn't relevant to 2018. Favre, OTOH, made plays with his arm and never rushed for more than 220 yards in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 53 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Quick: Name a running QB who has perennially led his team to the playoffs. This off-season opposing DC’s will study the running QBs and figure out ways to force them to play from the pocket. Allen’s future and that of other running QBs will be decided on how they throw the ball. McNabb, McNair, Rogers, Luck, Vick, Brunell, Cunningham, Smith, Elway, and Young. I'm sure I'm missing several. A QB's success has so much to do with his surroundings. A good OC, defense, and an ability to make throws at clutch times can make all the difference between winners and losers. The pairing of Jackson and the offense in Baltimore works because of the coaching staff in Baltimore. So much of thier staff is built up of proven option and RPO type offensive coaching that working Jackson in is easy. McNair and McNabb are two of the best examples of running QB's who were very successful. They got better in the pocket over time but both were still very capable at breaking the pocket throughtout their careers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, /dev/null said: In 1987 John Elway rushed for 304 yards In 1992 Steve Young rushed for 537 In 11 games Josh Allen rushed for 536 Elway and Young weren't running QBs. They were mobile QBs Young ran all the time Elway and Marino wisely refused to run 2 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: McNabb, McNair, Rogers, Luck, Vick, Brunell, Cunningham, Smith, Elway, and Young. I'm sure I'm missing several. A QB's success has so much to do with his surroundings. A good OC, defense, and an ability to make throws at clutch times can make all the difference between winners and losers. The pairing of Jackson and the offense in Baltimore works because of the coaching staff in Baltimore. So much of thier staff is built up of proven option and RPO type offensive coaching that working Jackson in is easy. McNair and McNabb are two of the best examples of running QB's who were very successful. They got better in the pocket over time but both were still very capable at breaking the pocket throughtout their careers. Fran Tarkenton was one of the greatest scrambling QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: My takeaway is that Josh must've always been the biggest, fastest kid on the field growing up...but this is the NFL. While super fun to watch, it'll end up getting him seriously injured in 2019. Idk man. He's still the biggest and close to fastest besides the DL . Teams just can't contain him on the ground . The only hit I didn't like on a day he ran for 90 something and 2 TD was illegal. I think we have to utilize his legs , no other QB can run like that and throw to anywhere on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 As long as he gets down and slides quicker no reason to take the run game away from him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: Quick: Name a running QB who has perennially led his team to the playoffs. This off-season opposing DC’s will study the running QBs and figure out ways to force them to play from the pocket. Allen’s future and that of other running QBs will be decided on how they throw the ball. Kapernick, Vick, Newton. It’s very possible, though I tend to agree not sustainable. Though to be fair, Newton has gotten worse since toning down the running. Ideal scenario for us is Allen to be a bit like Big Ben.. he’s got the arm and size, just needs to use that mobility to extend plays. Give him a better line and a few weapons and I think we can head in that direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 49 minutes ago, /dev/null said: In 1987 John Elway rushed for 304 yards In 1992 Steve Young rushed for 537 In 11 games Josh Allen rushed for 536 Elway and Young weren't running QBs. They were mobile QBs Correct re: Elway. Not correct re: Young! It wasn't that apparent because his early years were in the USFL, but he was criticized widely for thinking "run first." And he ran a fair amount in his early NFL years. As he go more fully indoctrinated in the Walsh system, he became more of a "mobile QB" than a "running QB." That's a normal progression if the QB is smart and willing to adapt. But my point here: right now, Allen succeeds because he's a running QB; at this stage of his development, he's not much of a threat if you take the run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) there will most definitely come a point in 2019 when numerous fans. Angrily ask, “why isn’t Allen Running that much anymore.” it will be this weird effect that by getting more mature with a better team around him...Allen will feel the need to trust his arm more, the pockets will be cleaner and hopefully the game will slow down...and then he will throw it instead of sprinting. And strangely the odds of it being a 30 yard td pass will be less than the run. thats when fans will be like “he was more effective when he ran!” Edited December 31, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Is there a distinction here between run first QB's, and QB's who can run? Because the example of Wilson falls apart because he is such a great thrower as well. Vick is close to the only QB who had consistent success as a run first QB, but even then, he could still throw the ball extremely well. QB's that run are not that rare and are a great piece, if they stay healthy. Run first QB's are not usually successful as they are eventually forced to beat a team with their arm and a lot of them fall short (Kapernick, Taylor, Tebow, etc). Jackson didn't win the game for the Ravens today. When the Browns keyed in on his running they started coming back and then that last drive when the Ravens could have put it away, it ended up being a disaster. There was no fear from the Browns to stacking the box and forcing Jackson to throw. The defense bailed him out, but they were closer than it should have been. Not to say that Jackson can't become more successful, but that model that they are employing now only works because of a great line, and a phenomenal defense. I hope it keeps working for them if it means they can beat New England. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Is there a distinction here between run first QB's, and QB's who can run? Apparently not in this thread. Elway and Favre were running QBs?? BillsVet nailed it above. It's nice as a compliment, but DCs will force Allen and Jackson to beat them from the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, KD in CA said: Apparently not in this thread. Elway and Favre were running QBs?? BillsVet nailed it above. It's nice as a compliment, but DCs will force Allen and Jackson to beat them from the pocket. The nice thing is that Allen's big runs seem to come off of broken passing plays. That touchdown run today was all about the D protecting against the pass and leaving it open to him. I would consider him a QB that runs, rather than a run first QB. Jackson is definitely a run first QB and the playoffs will likely expose that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts