EJ Manuel: What went wrong after year 1?

[Swill Merchant]

The only people who thought EJ Manuel had more than a snowball's chance in hell of becoming a legit starting QB after year 1 were Bills fans whose desire for a good QB overrode their judgment.

 

He had a couple of ok games early, but it quickly became apparent that he just didn't have it. Todd Mcshay was dead on with his analysis.

[BillyWhiteShows]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

What escapes most Bills fans and some NFL coaches it seems... is how a rookie QB is developed in his first year in the NFL. I can't overstate how important it is to a rookie QB to have a veteran NFL QB on the roster to help guide that rookie QB through his first season. To have a qualified NFL QB coach to help guide him in his first season. To have an NFL qualified offensive coordinator to help guild him in his first NFL season. EJ had none of those! 

 

No veteran QB on the roster

No NFL QB coach with that 2013 Buffalo staff

No NFL OC with previous NFL experience on the staff

One of the worst offensive lines in the NFL that season

 

EJ had some veteran QB help during the OTA's, pre season and that ended when Kevin Kolb met that rubber mat that ended his NFL career!  Besides that who even then who knows how helpful Kolb was to any of the QBs on the roster that year. 

 

Bills fans need to understand that EJ was a rookie QB, Jeff Tuel was an undrafted free agent rookie QB that year and Thaddeus Lewis was basically a rookie with only one game in Cleveland (32 attempts) in 2012. So that 2013 Buffalo Bills opening day roster had 3 rookie QBs on it with no real starting experience. 

Three rookie QBs, no QB coach and Nathaniel Hackett as his OC who came straight from college and was never previously an NFL offensive coordinator. Is it any wonder why EJ failed?

Kinda like this year with Nathaniel Peterman as the starter and one game under his belt from the year and Josh Allen as the only QB's on the roster for the first six games. 

 

The way I look at it 2014 was more like what his rookie season should been with veteran QB Kyle Orton on the roster, and an actual NFL QB coach. Then Marrone benching EJ after a bad performance against the Texans week 4. This after asking EJ to throw 44 times vs 23 runs. That season was a clusterfluck on offense with Fred Jackson missing games, CJ Spiller missing games and when the team did run it was 70% of the time right up the middle with Hackett calling plays.  

 

Just to give fans and idea how bad that Bills O line was that year. In week 16 against the Raiders with a playoff berth on the line at Oakland the Bills only ran 13 times for 13 yards with Orton throwing 49 times! This was against the 3-12 Raiders who were 32nd in points allowed. Each time the Bills ran the ball the Buffalo RB was met in the backfield almost every run.

 

 

Anyway, EJ had stated he learned more from watching Kyle Orton prepare for a game then he ever learned from anyone else on the team. What does that tell you about his OC, his QB coach? The kid never had a chance to properly develop in Buffalo due to inept coaching. 

 

Josh Allen didn't have a veteran QB for the first quarter of the 2018 season and credits Anderson, Barkley with his improvement after his injury. Still, the scheme he has been playing in is not conducive in properly developing a rookie QB. 

 

 

The logic here is flawed, because you imply that EJ has the potential to be a great QB.  Many draft analysts would disagree with that point.  Many had EJ at a 3rd or 4th round talent level.  

 

My take is that he never was a 1st round pick to begin with.  It was a total over-reach by the Bills and a really terrible idea.  He never had the potential or talent to be a great QB in the first place, so your take about veteran QB’s and coaching is moot. 

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Doug Maroon.

yep. no question.

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Is this nostalgia EJ week?

why not ? 
 

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

You never believed in Santa or the tooth fairy??

 

irrational hope was all we had!

 

It’s  how you warm up your Allen bash game when it’s still just a few games to soon to start piling on him 

you are too close to the shameful truth

1 hour ago, dayman said:

EJ was a terrible pick. He wasn't that good at FSU and it was a bizarre reach to stake the team/executive future on him. Nothing went wrong with his development he was never going to make it. 

I disagree on one point. but cannot argue the other.

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

The logic here is flawed, because you imply that EJ has the potential to be a great QB.  Many draft analysts would disagree with that point.  Many had EJ at a 3rd or 4th round talent level.  

 

My take is that he never was a 1st round pick to begin with.  It was a total over-reach by the Bills and a really terrible idea.  He never had the potential or talent to be a great QB in the first place, so your take about veteran QB’s and coaching is moot. 

Nix was freaking out.
embarrassing reach.
 and as mentioned, Bills Whaley doubled down against Maroons wishes.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

The problem was that EJ never was a first round talent to begin with.  2013 was a very weak year for quarterbacks and rather than taking in the 3rd or 4th round, Buddy made him a 1st round pick which set the bar way too high to begin with.  It didn’t help to have Whaley double down as trade for Sammy the next season.  

 

I don’t think anything went wrong for EJ.  He just wasn’t good enough to be a starting QB in the NFL and the Bills were so desperate they reached huge for him.  

 

I do agree - he was put in a really bad situation though I doubt he had the talent to be a good NFL QB to begin with

 

This is an assessment that I can definitely agree with.  Unlike many others, I never faulted Whaley for the pick.  Yes, it was a stretch.  But everyone knows drafting QBs is a gamble.  He tried.  It was better than doing nothing, in my opinion, even though it didn't work out.

[The Frankish Reich]

21 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

This is a cop out post and you know it. The differences are night & day. Stats are for -well, you know..

Allen is a better runner than EJ.

Other than that, EJ's rookie year was better.

I wish we could say Allen has been significantly better. But that's simply not true. 

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

The logic here is flawed, because you imply that EJ has the potential to be a great QB.  Many draft analysts would disagree with that point.  Many had EJ at a 3rd or 4th round talent level.  

 

My take is that he never was a 1st round pick to begin with.  It was a total over-reach by the Bills and a really terrible idea.  He never had the potential or talent to be a great QB in the first place, so your take about veteran QB’s and coaching is moot. 

I get the impression that you mistakenly quoted the wrong post as I didn't imply in any way, shape or form that EJ had any kind of potential. The only thing I implied was that he was drastically not developed properly in his first year.

 

 

[Peevo]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The number 1 most important thing for any QB to develop is:  Opportunity.

 

Once Marrone decided to play Orton because he wanted a Vet, EJ lost his chance to be a young QB who will be afforded the opportunity to make mistakes and grow from it.

 

He was thrown out there before he was ready and yetshowed some promise.  Then despite being 2-2 he had his opportunity taken from him because Marrone wanted to start a bad vet.  Funny, he stubbornly stuck with another bad bet in Jax too despite there being several upgrades available since him being there.  

 

By the time EJ got another opportunity two things happened.  Rex got who had been the apple of his eye for several years, and that was Tyrod.  EJ out played Tyrod that preseason yet still didn’t get the job.  So now EJ still hasn’t gotten another opportunity, and confidence is surely being affected as well.  But from this point on, he has NO ROOM for mistakes.  He can’t make a mistake, review film, and improve anymore.  Now he makes a mistake and doesn’t get to play anymore.

 

So for me, what damaged him the most was the loss of the opportunity to go out and both make good and bad plays without losing his chance to keep playing.  Doesn’t mean he would have ever gotten there, but I think there is definite reason to believe his development was significantly impacted negatively by losing his chance early to play and learn from the good and the bad plays.

 

 

This is also true.  It's always seemed like from literally Day 1 Marrone and Whaley weren't on the same page.  Since we NEVER get true answers as to who makes decisions, why they were made, and with what input, we're all left to speculate and read between lines in reports from years later.  As if any of this information would hurt them in anyway, and only help to repair a maligned relationship between the fans and the team.  What a thought.

 

It's frustrating.  Who drafted Aaron Maybin?  Was it Modrak?  Jauron?  Brandon?  There is an answer to this question.  The Bills simply will NEVER answer it.  Who cut Troy Vincent?  Was it Jim Overdorf?  Again, who are these people, what are their qualifications, why did they make these decisions, who is making these decisions, and why?  It's actually quite simple.

 

It's a combination of lack of overall leadership at the very top, this being 2013 and at the very end of Ralph's life.  Russ Brandon is given full control of the team in January, 2013, and he hires Marrone, what, 5 days after an "exhaustive" search.  So this dude that WE HAD TO HAVE doesn't have any actual say in the football players his GM is drafting?

 

So heading into a full-scale rebuild, and every one knows they're gonna address QB in April of 2013, and the guy that could help reset the future of the franchise is just some average schlub the coach didn't really like or want?  How is that a way to build a program?  It's Marrone's rookie head coaching season, with a rookie QB, and rookie playcaller.  And NONE of them are ever on the same page.

 

Irrespective of Manuel's (many) flaws, this is just a terrible way to build a professional football program.

 

It's a combination of a LOT of problems.  But Ralph's cadre of self-interested sycophants at the top made the drought insurmountably worse.  Modrak, Jauron, Guy, Jim Overdorf, Brandon,  et cetera.  WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?  We still literally don't know, to this day, what any of those people did.  Isn't this a problem?

[BillsMafia13]

Im confused here.  Is consensus EJ had a very talented team or did not? If memory serves this was a pretty good team all around with  not much of a weakness, sans that dolt Marrone 

[Bing Bong]

22 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Edwards started doing this more and more towards the end as well. You will NEVER last at the position if you're getting your receivers blasted.

I wouldn't say there aren't exceptions. of course a QB needs his feet wet before killing his WRs but i recall Kurt Warner getting some bad rep in Arizona. He had Boldin killed several times.

[Coach Tuesday]

Long strider who couldn’t adapt his muscle memory to fit the modern quick-twitch passing game.  It’s really that simple.

[Livinginthepast]

To me EJ was promising but was never the same after the injury he took in Cleveland in that primetime night game.  Everything about him became way more tentative and hesitant. By the time he replaced an injured  TT in that London game against the Jags he was pretty much a bust.  He might have ended up the exact same way careerwise had he not been injured vs the Browns but St.Doug obviously had had enough by Year 2 and got Orton off the scrap heap to somewhat salvage the season. Perhaps EJ would have been decent had they kept Fitz for another year and he not started?

[BUFFALOKIE]

Remember EJ Manuel stocks? 

 

I member. I think EJ was the only person on Earth to come out ahead in that game. He made something like 5M betting against himself. LoL.

[Trogdor]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Please define what you mean by "proven winner" at the college level.

Big game wins. Bowl games, conference championships, and rivalry games are important. You can look back and see many of the great QBs carrying their team to victory in important games. Even for guys on stacked teams there is usually 1 or 2 games a year where they actually have to perform.  EJ played on a stacked team, but he shrunk and had terrible games when they needed a QB. Against Florida his senior year he got exposed and threw 3 interceptions. They were basically a decent QB from the National Championship at that point. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 12/27/2018 at 3:07 AM, Buftex said:

I know it is an unpopular opinion, and ultimately he probably was never going to be an upper echelon starter, but he really didn't get much of a shot in Buffalo.  For a guy who was drafted as high as he was, he only had 10 starts before Marrone, essentially gave up on him.  Even Jamarcus Russell, the standard for modern NFL QB bust got 15 consecutive starts in his second season (missed most of his rookie season with holdout and injury issues) before the Raiders pulled the plug on him. Really, after the first 5 games of his rookie season, Manuel had 12 more starts, spread out over 4 seasons. Before he got injured against Cleveland, on that Thursday night game, he was 2-2 as a starter, and I think most Bills fans were cautiously optimisitic that the Bills might have a decent QB.  But that injury, 5 games into his career, pretty much sealed his fate.  He never really had a real shot after that.  Not necessarily blaming Marrone, but he just had no committment to the first round pick. I do feel like he could have improved with more playing time.

 

That's the problem when the GM and coach weren't hired together.  Regardless of what many here will argue, don't think the order of which comes first is that important, just that they both support eachother. 

[Ol Dirty B]

On 12/27/2018 at 7:27 AM, Chandler#81 said:

I disagree with you as well, especially your ‘intelligent’ belief stats speak truth. Allen -for whatever reasons/ basically shuns the short game aka your dumbest criteria. Assuredly, his tremendous arm talent is part of it. Do I anticipate more emphasis on safer passes next season? Not really. He’s too good a downfield passer to not allow him. But Hey, stick with Madden and let us know how that works out for ya, Einstein..

 

The stats for losers guy going to stick to madden all I can do is laugh.

 

He's not even good throwing the ball downfield. But you ignore reasoning that would suggest otherwise. You're making terrible points. You know they can control for distance and yardage. You just want to spew dumb cliches from 90s. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

The guy was terribly inconsistent. One catch would be on the money the next would be like a throw away. Plus his college HC said he wouldn't make it, he just didnt have any confidence nor leadership ability.

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

imagine if the Bills had tried to trade away EJ after his first year, how many people would have made a serious play for him? Now imagine if they tried to trade Josh after this season, I think it's a safe bet there would be a bunch of teams who'd love to have him. 

 

It's all in the eye test. EJ never looked like he was capable of great things, at best he looked like he was capable of being efficient. Josh has made his share of bad plays, no doubt, but there have been many times this season where you watch and think "this kid could be really special with more work and more talent around him". Even his body language when he's on the sideline talking to his teammates, he has the IT factor that good QBs need. 

 

I'd be very surprised and massively disappointed if he doesn't take things to the next level next season.

[bills11]

E.J Manuel was never a natural thrower of the pigskin all you had to do was watch his college highlights..didn't even have to watch film to see a robotic rigid thrower with a misleading college completion pct. The fact that Jameis Winston was going to replace him the next year if ej didn't declare should have been red flags. You don't draft a QB in the first round when their incombent is vastly superior to them..and we all know how crab legs has fared in the NFL . Not to mention he was really done after the Jets game year 1 where he continually sailed sideline fade and go routes way out of bounds marrone was enraged on the sideline .

[The_Dude]

On 12/26/2018 at 11:34 PM, Another Fan said:

I guess some will argue otherwise but imo Manuel’s first year here wasn’t that bad.  He held his own in the first game of the year against the Patriots, defeated the Ravens (they previously just won the Super Bowl), and looked like a boss in one game against the Jets that year.  It wasn’t until 2014 where it was obvious he really hadn’t developed.

 

Was that attributed to coaches having more film on him, him losing his confidence, or possibly poor coaching here?  I can’t help to make some parallels to EJs first year to Josh’s.  They both missed a few games there rookie years, there’s a good chance this team will win 6 games like that team did, and imo they both showed flashes of what’s to come while still some things to work on.  

 

Just have my fingers crossed Josh will work out.  I mean at one time EJ was capable of these kind of plays:

 

 

 

The dude was one-hopin screens. 

 

What went wrong is that we drafted that no-talent *****. That’s what went wrong. 

 

Nice kid. Crap QB.