I don't believe in the 3 year plan happening in '19

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

 

What do you think 2017 was???  Jettisoning Watkins, Dareus, Wood, Preston Brown and more for draft picks & salary caps savings wasn't part of a REBUILD??

 

2017 was seeing what they had before clearing out.  You seem to be disconnected from the word “build” 

[BillsFan1988]

16 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

What happens next season if they go 7-9 or even 8-8? Beane stays and McDermott goes?

 

Something tells me these guys are tied at the hip. It irks the hell out of me that two guys who've never done the job have more job security than GM's/Coaches in the league who've achieved serious success. I actually like McDermott more than I like Beane. Be a damn shame if McDermott were to get the ax because of Beane's blunders.

 

Only in Buffalo is this acceptable.

There defintely tied at the hip , Beane doesnt do anything without Mcd giving approval.

[Trogdor]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Used Glenn to get Allen.  Everyone hollers they have to draft a QB, they do so, then it's how you should've concentrated on I line.

Trading your highly rated LT to get a QB never made sense. It might be how it happened, but I'm willing to bet there were better ways.

[Ol Dirty B]

On 12/24/2018 at 7:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

I really can’t believe the 3 year re-build plan for the Bills will have much success in 2019.  Regardless of 10 draft picks and $90 mil in cap space it doesn’t make sense.

 

 

Realistically we need new, quality;   O Lineman (3), WR (3), RB (2), LB (1), TE (1), DB (1), DL (1) 

 

 

That’s 12 total to be competitive!!

 

 

 

We’re going to have to over-pay for quality, top tier free-agents to come to Buffalo.  We all know the risks with drafts picks in their rookie seasons (Zay Jones, Teller, McCloud and even Edmunds).  It just doesn’t happen.

 

 

I love believing in the PROCESS but with a young, raw QB who is still unproven while trying to blend a plethora of new players into a competent NFL team seems unrealistic.  It may sell tickets but not win a lot of games.

 

 

GO BILLS!

 

So you're punting on 2019 already to keep him employed? Because you realize they created a lot of these holes and drafted poorly.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Trading your highly rated LT to get a QB never made sense. It might be how it happened, but I'm willing to bet there were better ways.

Your chronically injured LT 

[That_Guy]

gonna be a looooong off-season

[Bing Bong]

It's virtually impossible the way I see all the improvements necessary. I don't trust the process . But I want to see it succeed and I'm happy with our quarterback for the 2nd time in the drought since Tyrod's first year.

 

All I'm asking for is a marked improvement. Not necessarily in record. But stopping these blowouts and playing good teams at least competitively.. no more games where we leave the first half with virtually no chance of winning and the opponent clearly cruising the rest of the game. Beating the bad teams, more convincing wins. I didn't want a long rebuld nor thought over 3 years was necessary.. but this is the brain trust we're rolling with so barring absolutely no improvement with what we have to go with this off-season ( which would give me serious doubts this regime can do anything with all that they've torn down) I'm okay with a 4 to 5 year plan. It sucks.. but I'll just have to hope for improvement EVERY year. 

 

That's what we should be banking on and give no more excuses if that's not happening.

 

[mjt328]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

I really can’t believe the 3 year re-build plan for the Bills will have much success in 2019.  Regardless of 10 draft picks and $90 mil in cap space it doesn’t make sense.

 

 

Realistically we need new, quality;   O Lineman (3), WR (3), RB (2), LB (1), TE (1), DB (1), DL (1) 

 

 

That’s 12 total to be competitive!!

 

 

Look through the top teams in the NFL.  Saints, Rams, Chiefs, Patriots, etc.

None of those teams are without flaws.  All have weak positions that need to be upgraded.

Bottom line, the Bills don't need to have 22 top starters and 31 top backups in order to join these franchises.

 

Now looking through your list...

You really believe we need THREE new wide receivers and TWO new running backs just to be "competitive"? 

You really think our current defense (ranked #2) cannot compete without upgrades at linebacker, cornerback and defensive line?

Maybe I don't understand your definition of the word competitive.

 

 

On 12/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, PUNT750 said:

 

We’re going to have to over-pay for quality, top tier free-agents to come to Buffalo.  We all know the risks with drafts picks in their rookie seasons (Zay Jones, Teller, McCloud and even Edmunds).  It just doesn’t happen.

 

I love believing in the PROCESS but with a young, raw QB who is still unproven while trying to blend a plethora of new players into a competent NFL team seems unrealistic.  It may sell tickets but not win a lot of games.

 

GO BILLS!

 

Everyone needs to overpay for the quality, top-tier free agents.  That's just the way free agency works.  At least we have the dollars to invest this year.

We've gotten some valuable contributions from free agents like Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer in recent years (even without being overly aggressive), so why is it totally unbelievable to think we can get some help this year?

 

The Bills are going to win 5-6 games, in a season where Nathan Peterman (possibly the worst QB ever to step on an NFL field) started twice and Derek Anderson (only signed to hold a clipboard) started twice.  We were also a finger-tip catch away from another victory in Miami.  We basically punted away a quarter of our games, then spent the rest of our season developing a rookie QB. 

 

Now let's say we get the post-bye Josh Allen for a full 16 games next year, instead of the quarterback mess we experienced in 2018. 

And let's say we are successful in upgrading just a couple positions along the O-Line with solid veterans, so we are just "average" instead of "terrible."

And let's say we add maybe 1-2 more decent receiving weapons, and draft a younger running back to replace Shady.

 

Is it really totally UNREALISTIC to think the Bills could win 10-11 games in 2019 (which could win them the AFC East), with just a handful of upgrades on the offensive side of the ball?  I don't think so.

 

 

 

 

[The Now Moment]

Who here saw us as a playoff team last year?

[Dave Allen]

The problem is that some fans' expectations are too high. The Bills are aiming for long-term, high-level competitiveness, and there are too many holes to fill to reach that mark in 2019. I doubt they are going to try to cram a bunch of overpaid free agents and overreached draft picks just to aim for a playoff spot next year, at the expense of long-term success. 

 

If the team can draft solidly again next year - I'd expect a WR, OL and a DL/CB in the first few rounds, and the same in free agency - then they should take a good step forward. But significant upgrades at 11 different starting positions is unlikely in one offseason.  

[row_33]

Hope it works out better this time around

 

we have an Amen Corner here already determining every move will be optimal and add to the team jumping to 11 wins next year....

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, row_33 said:

...we have an Amen Corner here already determining every move will be optimal and add to the team jumping to 11 wins next year....

Geez.  That will play havoc with the Tank in 2019 Corner here.  ?

[oldmanfan]

I may have missed it, but did McD and Beane every say they had a three year turn around plan?  Or is that made up in the mind of the OP?  I did hear them say they had short and long term goals, to make the franchise consistently competitive.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I may have missed it, but did McD and Beane every say they had a three year turn around plan?  Or is that made up in the mind of the OP?  I did hear them say they had short and long term goals, to make the franchise consistently competitive.

 

This.  The whole conversation is so bizarre.  They are in year two and have made the playoffs, have the number two defense in the league, closed out the rookie year of their new franchise QB, and have the cap space to let them make whatever moves they would like.  This team is set up for success.  

 

I can't even imagine how this board could not be overly optimistic.  

[LSHMEAB]

On 12/26/2018 at 10:15 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

2017 was seeing what they had before clearing out.  You seem to be disconnected from the word “build” 

I don't know man. I like your optimism, but these guys so far have been better at imploding buildings than constructing new ones.

[row_33]

On 12/26/2018 at 11:09 PM, TheBeaneBandit said:

More like a 3 year sham.......

 

We've chosen a dud of a franchise to cheer for

 

45 years and I’ve seen 6 great and roughly 6 above good seasons.

 

you just have to embrace the suck of cheering for the Bills

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't know man. I like your optimism, but these guys so far have been better at imploding buildings than constructing new ones.

 

So, you don't see any of the following as positives:

1. Taking a below average team and winning 9 games and breaking the 17 year streak with a guy everyone here said would never play a playoff game as a starter in Tyrod.
   1. Additionally, had all the WR's get hurt to where we were starting scrubs off the street some games, not to mention the OL injuries, Tyrod injury, Clay and McCoy injuries, and secondary injuries all to key players.  McD still somehow got this team to win 9 games, and had Zay not screwed up the final play week 2, we would have won 10.
2. Beane said it would take him 2 full offseason to fix the cap, he did it in just over 1.  Some teams takes years to accomplish this.
3. Had back to back strong drafts finding quality starters, elite starters, and guys loaded with potential up and down the draft.  
4. Getting a premium pick for Tyrod when this board said he was only worth a case of beer.
5. Managing to move up the draft WITHOUT giving up future picks, especially future first rounders while somehow trading up multiple times in the first round.
6. Got rid of guys who either didn't fit the culture and future or were not going to be able to be resigned and getting good value back for each of them.  
7. Managed to rebuild our defense from bottom 5 to a top 5 unit quickly.
8. Found some quality contributors in rookie UDFA and off other teams PS.  I mean Foster is looking like a potential high quality #2 WR or better if he can keep improving.  
9. Set the foundation for the future with that top 5 D, our QB already in place, a few extra picks (to draft or use to move around draft to get guys they covet), and $90m in cap space.  

So what are all the gripes?  Let me see if I can cover it all...

1. "Got rid of everyone so our offense was a joke".  I hear this one a LOT...and its false.  It is completely false.  Woods and Goodwin left on their own, and that was also before Beane was here.  The only WR they got rid of was Sammy, and they got rid of him because they were never going to be able to resign him to a deal they were comfortable with and managed to get a 2nd round pick and quality player who contributed to us making the playoffs...which we did of course without Sammy.  I mean Sammy is making $16m a year yet hasn't broke 1000 yards in 4 years.  
   1. They traded Glenn, who was underperforming to his deal big time due to injury and decline.  Was a good move as well as it helped us get the QB they coveted, and I would MUCH rather have Allen plus our first round pick this year then to have NOT traded Glenn and had to throw in this years first to move up to as high as 7.  This is what people dont understand, had we NOT traded Glenn we would have had to 100% include this years first to move up for a QB.  
   2. They traded Tryod, and this doest even need explaining.  It was clear we were not going to truly contend with him, and we some how had Beane the Magician get Cleveland to give us the first pick in the 3rd round for a guy most assumed we would cut or would only fetch a 5th at best given we were going after a new QB anyway.
2. "Signed Star to a bad contract" - Is it really that bad?  We have $90m in cap space, and most of what Star doesn't show up on stat sheets.  We are a top defense already this year, and this includes periods where Allen was hurt and our offense kept the defense on the field most the game.  So is this that big of a deal where it negates everything positive?  No.
3. "Wasted a 3rd on Kelvin" - No we didn't, we literally made the playoffs BECAUSE of Kelvin, and that is the ONLY reason they traded for him.  Every WR on our team was hurt and we were in think of playoff race.  They went and got a guy who made plays for us that heavily contributed to a couple wins and without those plays we dont snap playoff streak.  So he returned the value they invested in, and that was help us make playoffs.  Then when KB fell off a cliff this year, they didn't worry about looking bad, they went ahead and cut him to make room for Foster and the younger guys.
4. "Failed to address WR and OL" - Again, false.  We had a lot of dead $ on the cap, so they didn't have a lot of financial flexibility.  Coming into the season, more was expected from both KB and Zay.  We lost 3 OL starters, all Pro Bowlers on the OL, and thats not easy to replace especially when you are gearing up to trade up for a QB.  They again didn't have the cap room and went with some of their young guys.  This year was never about "being a finished product", it was field the best team they can while in the cap situation so they can really start improving the weak areas this year.  
5. "Didn't Bring in a vet QB soon enough" - Sure, this one could have happened sooner but who really cares in the first place?.  But at the same time, people completely fail to understand something about this.  We had a rookie QB they were focused on working with as much as possible to get him ready.  Original plan during 3rd preseason game was to start Allen week 1.  That game didn't go well, so they decided to work with him more before starting him.  To bring in another QB at that point means less time they have to work with Allen as its difficult to get a QB up to speed and ready to play.  So its understandable that they kept their focus on Allen, especially since NP fooled a lot of people with his preseason (not me, but many people).  Once they had worked with Allen a while, they decided it was time to bring in a vet.

So here is where I sit...does the bottom (most of which IMHO is mostly misstated, over exaggerated, or just not as bad as people think) out weight the top positives?  Its not even close in my book, the top grossly out weighs the bottom and this is why I am bullish on both McD and Beane.  No GM is going to be perfect, all have more misses than hits.  Same with HC's, none are perfect and make mistakes or questionable decisions all the time.  But the great ones have more positives that out weigh the negatives, and so far, I feel strongly that both McD and Beane have a stronger list of positives.  

[BullBuchanan]

On 12/26/2018 at 2:50 PM, reddogblitz said:

 

Why?

 

The Cowboys in 1975 went to the Super Bowl with 12 rookies.  2 of them were offensive lineman.  

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Dozen_(American_football)

 

This the kind of draft performance  coupled with really good FA signing we need if "THE PROCESS" has any chance of success.

 

We've had McDermott and Beane's first year and mulligan tank year.  2019 is time to put up or shut up. No more excuses.

 

My bottom line for next year is we better be at least "in the hunt" going into week 17.

 

 

A couple things have changed in the last 50 years.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 12/27/2018 at 1:15 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

2017 was seeing what they had before clearing out.  You seem to be disconnected from the word “build” 

 

...yup 'Dawg......and McBeane is going to do so principally through the draft.........19 of the 22 starters on the Steelers' 2009 SB club were acquired through the draft.....and somebody posted a McBeane quote (paraphrasing) about FA....."we assign a value to a player and that's it".......so even though the "89% spend rule" somewhat forces his hand, he'll be value shopping and carrying over the 11% to 2020 IMO........

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...yup 'Dawg......and McBeane is going to do so principally through the draft.........19 of the 22 starters on the Steelers' 2009 SB club were acquired through the draft.....and somebody posted a McBeane quote (paraphrasing) about FA....."we assign a value to a player and that's it".......so even though the "89% spend rule" somewhat forces his hand, he'll be value shopping and carrying over the 11% to 2020 IMO........

 

As he should...you dont build a Super Bowl winner in one Free Agency.  Better to spend wisely and keep adding each year.  Look at the Rams, they did that at first and then went to crazy town and are in trouble long term.  They are in a "you better win now" mode because the way they did contracts means they are going to be in cap hell soon enough.  They went all in on a SB this year or next, but when Goff contract comes up, this team is getting gutted and they could regress heavily if they dont draft well.  

 

I have confidence in Beane finding the right mix of pieces to start contending next year and building a long term contender.