Cut McCoy, Sign Bell (edited from McCoy out 6.4M cap)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:09 PM, Chicharito said:

I doesn’t matter who the running back is if you don’t have guys upfront that can block.

 

It actually does matter.

 

The reason that Ivory was consistently more effective than McCoy especially earlier in the season is that McCoy has always been a "skills" runner - he relies on the OL to spring him to the 2nd level then makes people miss, to break off his big runs.  McCoy is next to useless if he doesn't have good and effective blocking.  As the season goes on, he's become more willing to try to dive in and make something happen, but he's also gotten dinged enough I think, that he lost a couple steps once he made it to the open field.

 

Ivory, OTOH, would just pound the rock - dive into the spot where the hole was supposed to be and churn his legs to take people with him.  He averages 3.4 ypa.

3.4 ypa doesn't sound that great, but it moves the chains, people.

 

So yeah, if you want a run game without investing in quality run blocking, both personnel and coaching and scheme, you need to acquire 2-3 Ivory type guys and use them in rotation.

Paradoxically, if you do have guys up front that can block and an effective passing game, almost any well-coached RB can generate some run game - see "Patriots***, NE"

 

 

[Simon Says]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:39 PM, NewDayBills said:

I want Tevin Coleman and TJ Yeldon in FA, let them share the load. Probably cost 3-4 million less than we're paying now. A two back system is the way to go.

You could get BOTH of these guys for less than what Bell would cost, so I like that. I don't see Beane investing that much in a RB; too risky. Already have Ivory, Ford and Murphy, and can easily draft one and pay him rookie money.

[Gugny]

Any GM who pays Bell what he's looking for should be fired before the ink on the contract is dry.

 

Invest in the line and any decent running back will put up great numbers.

[BananaB]

Spend some money on an Oline and you won’t need to spend much on a RB. 

[wppete]

How about spending all that money on a decent O-Line????

 

I don’t get these people that want to spend money on a RB with the worst O-Line in the NFl. You can’t run the ball if you can’t block. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, wppete said:

How about spending all that money on a decent O-Line????

 

I don’t get these people that want to spend money on a RB with the worst O-Line in the NFl. You can’t run the ball if you can’t block. 

They certainly have to address the OL but they CAN do both. The thing about Bell is he would be the best receiver and runner on this team. I’m not opposed to him at all (although I think he goes to Indy). 

[Boatdrinks]

Bell patiently follows his blockers before accelerating. In Buffalo, that would mean getting hit behind the LOS most of the time. No thanks. LeVeon will be overpriced wherever he goes, but with the Bills Oline it’s hard to envision a bigger waste of cap $$ than Bell. 

[dpberr]

Players can have down years.

[DuckyBoys]

They fix the O line and run game will be just fine.  Bell scares the crap out of me  #1 is he really a special back?  Steelers run game didn't see a great drop off  #2 he gets that big pay day is he check out? 

[Jay_Fixit]

Gotta shore up that o-line. Draft a day 2/3 RB.

 

[dezertbill]

I really like Coleman.  He is lightening quick out of the backfield. I'd take him over Yeldon.  I don't think we need both.

 

Keeping in mind we still have Ivory and Murphy next year, I'm all for signing Coleman and cutting Shady.  Then draft a RB in the 3-4 rounds.  You can find a quality starting back in those rounds.  

 

Coleman

Murphy

Ivory

Rookie

 

Between giving Burns a shot, along with a UDFA and a street FA to compete, we'll be set.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:02 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

Shady and Clay are gone. You can find Kamara type guys all over the draft.

 

I get what you're saying, but no.  Kamara guys are NOT all over the draft.

[Charlottebillsfan2]

I basically posted this in another message about Shady and the RB position. 

 

My thoughts are the Bills should move on from Shady and no way would I spend that money on Bell. Personally I would rather build a great o line and plug in a rookie RB every couple of years VIA draft. I would rather spend the money in other places. I just think the RB is a position you can fill any year in the draft if you have a solid line. 

 

Top 10 running backs based on yards in the NFL and time in the NFL. 

1 Elliott - 3rd season 

2 - Gurley - 4th season 

3 - Barkley - 1st season 

4 - McCaffrey - 2nd season 

5 - Joe mixon - 2nd season 

6- Peterson - 13th season 

7- Lindsay - 1st season 

8- Carson - 2nd season 

9- Chubb - 1st season 

10 - Henry - 3rd season 

 

[NewEra]

On 12/24/2018 at 7:47 AM, NewDayBills said:

I'm not so sure about that, maybe he has good hands but he's too slow at this point to make an impact as a receiver. Perhaps I'm projecting my desires on what I think should happen instead of what in all actuality will happen, I don't know.

Because he is making elite RB money when he is barely a #2 if you can even call him that. Either way, he is either not a fit in this offense or he will be out of the league in 2 years, it's hard to say. Regardless, it's time to move on. We can sign two solid RBs with that salary.

Tell me one RB who IS a fit behind a terrible OL with a trrrible OL coach?

 

shady doesn’t suck.  He’s lost a step,

no doubt about it.  Put him on the saints, rams, Steelers or cowboys and he’s still in the pro bowl.  We have the worst running game in the league minus our QB and it’s not because shady sucks.  Put zeke or gurley in this offense and they suck too.  All this talk is ridiculous imo.  

 

I hope we move on from him because he’s only getting worse and I like a few college RBs in this draft, but he’s still a good RB and can be very effective in the right situation.  

 

No chance we sign Bell. He’s not a process guy.

[billsfan_34]

On 12/25/2018 at 3:54 AM, Aussie Joe said:

Just draft a RB on Day 3...

 

They have seven picks to spend that day and there are other needs to address on Days 1-2..

Exactly or day 2, rd 3 if a guy you really like is there. 

[Victory Formation]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Tell me one RB who IS a fit behind a terrible OL with a trrrible OL coach?

 

shady doesn’t suck.  He’s lost a step,

no doubt about it.  Put him on the saints, rams, Steelers or cowboys and he’s still in the pro bowl.  We have the worst running game in the league minus our QB and it’s not because shady sucks.  Put zeke or gurley in this offense and they suck too.  All this talk is ridiculous imo.  

 

I hope we move on from him because he’s only getting worse and I like a few college RBs in this draft, but he’s still a good RB and can be very effective in the right situation.  

 

No chance we sign Bell. He’s not a process guy.

I actually liked the idea of Bell initially until I realized that there's some really decent options in FA for much cheaper. Why put ourselves in that position again? Bell would be Shady all over again. Pay him 15m aav just to hit a wall in 3 years when he's 30 and we're on the hook for it with no way out. With a 2 back system you can swap players out, if someone gets injured you plug in the next guy with no drop off. Yes, I'm a moron for wanting Bell. Definitely not one of my better takes. Spend that money on a G or C.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It actually does matter.

 

The reason that Ivory was consistently more effective than McCoy especially earlier in the season is that McCoy has always been a "skills" runner - he relies on the OL to spring him to the 2nd level then makes people miss, to break off his big runs.  McCoy is next to useless if he doesn't have good and effective blocking.  As the season goes on, he's become more willing to try to dive in and make something happen, but he's also gotten dinged enough I think, that he lost a couple steps once he made it to the open field.

 

Ivory, OTOH, would just pound the rock - dive into the spot where the hole was supposed to be and churn his legs to take people with him.  He averages 3.4 ypa.

3.4 ypa doesn't sound that great, but it moves the chains, people.

 

So yeah, if you want a run game without investing in quality run blocking, both personnel and coaching and scheme, you need to acquire 2-3 Ivory type guys and use them in rotation.

Paradoxically, if you do have guys up front that can block and an effective passing game, almost any well-coached RB can generate some run game - see "Patriots***, NE"

 

 

Nice to see some wisdom on this board- we can shore up the line in the offseason but it may not be a finished product- lets get a smash it in between the tackles Natron Means/Travis Henry kind of back 3rd-5th round. Heck, lets get 2 of them ?

[Doc Brown]

I'd be fine with cutting McCoy and signing Ajayi to a one year "prove it" deal since we do have a lot of cap space.  I really don't want to draft a RB in the first three or four rounds as O-line and pass catchers need a major upgrade.

[Simon Says]

21 hours ago, NewEra said:

Tell me one RB who IS a fit behind a terrible OL with a trrrible OL coach?

 

shady doesn’t suck.  He’s lost a step,

no doubt about it.  Put him on the saints, rams, Steelers or cowboys and he’s still in the pro bowl.  We have the worst running game in the league minus our QB and it’s not because shady sucks.  Put zeke or gurley in this offense and they suck too.  All this talk is ridiculous imo.  

 

I hope we move on from him because he’s only getting worse and I like a few college RBs in this draft, but he’s still a good RB and can be very effective in the right situation.  

 

No chance we sign Bell. He’s not a process guy.

I heard an interesting discussion on the radio; re: Castillo. Ranking of O-line coaches, taking into consideration the team's offensive, scheme, talent & experience level of the linemen, etc. I think Castillo was ranked 13th. He was hindered by the lack of talent & experience he had to work with (including a rookie QB and poor receiving group). Cant really blame pre-snap penalties on the coach, for example

[formerlyofCtown]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:33 PM, SCBills said:

Yes to cutting Shady. 

 

No to giving stupid money to another RB. 

I would try to trade McCoy as opposed to  cutting him.  I still think we can get a fifth for him.  I believe I would give 15 a year to Bell but I think he turned down more than that from Pittsburgh.