Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Every team has had misses over the years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Sammy didn't cost us 2 number 1 picks. We just used our pick the year we drafted Sammy to move up. We didn't lose the pick. The only number 1 pick we lost was the following year when we gave up a 2015 first rounder which is only one pick we actually gave up Sammy Watkins is headed to the Buffalo Bills, who moved up five spots in a trade with the Cleveland Browns to take the wide receiver with the No. 4 overall pick in the NFL draft. The Bills sent the ninth overall pick along with their first- and fourth-round selections in 2015 to Cleveland in the trade -- one of five deals made during Thursday night's event. Gave up the 9th overall pick in 2014 and 1st and 4th round picks in 2015 to get him. Edited December 21, 2018 by Azucho98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 21 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: You always hear about the players the Bills have passed on in recent (20) years. But how many of them would have even had success in the team that we had at the time? Biggest names we hear are Brady (Who was a diamond in the rough that every other team passed on 6 times) Gronk Could have traded up for Big Ben Russell Wilson Just to name a few. Every draft we let 31 players be selected in the 1st round by other teams. Unacceptable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Slow your roll brah... I pontificated how interesting the topic about Hughes being so close to elite was, how he’s just lacking something to push him over the top and sons posters said suggest lack of holding calls. I’m saying that doesn’t wash. Are you Following the debate or just looking to argue to justify your irrational need to ranch up perfectly good wings? By saying that I can put ranch on wings, I'm implying that anyone can do that, BUT they'd be wrong. Its implied sarcasm, but I'm done. If that flew over your head, then I can see why you would also miss such nuanced occurances as miss blown holding calls, or the result thereof: of the 10+ blown calls against Hughes this season, if 5 led to sacks, he would be considered elite. I really can't argue with you, if you can't read sarcasm, or understand what I meant by the ranch on wings comment. You missed that; you miss clearly blown calls. You miss, sir. You miss. I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said: By saying that I can put ranch on wings, I'm implying that anyone can do that, BUT they'd be wrong. Its implied sarcasm, but I'm done. If that flew over your head, then I can see why you would also miss such nuanced occurances as miss blown holding calls, or the result thereof: of the 10+ blown calls against Hughes this season, if 5 led to sacks, he would be considered elite. I really can't argue with you, if you can't read sarcasm, or understand what I meant by the ranch on wings comment. You missed that; you miss clearly blown calls. You miss, sir. You miss. I'm done. I was not only reading your sarcasm but responding with sarcasm about ranch madness. You must be new here. Bottom line: 1) Jerry is good not great, very disruptive player 2) as other astute posters pointed out, there are legitimate gaps holding him back 3) Jerry gets held, so did Bruce, so did Reggie, so does Mack. They all do 4) the nfl is NOT conspiring to keep Jerry from breaking Bruce Smith’s all time sack record, by singling him out and not calling holds on just him 5) your tinfoil hat crafted from the wings clearly has ranch dressing residue 6) being done is your best move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I was not only reading your sarcasm but responding with sarcasm about ranch madness. You must be new here. Bottom line: 1) Jerry is good not great, very disruptive player 2) as other astute posters pointed out, there are legitimate gaps holding him back 3) Jerry gets held, so did Bruce, so did Reggie, so does Mack. They all do 4) the nfl is NOT conspiring to keep Jerry from breaking Bruce Smith’s all time sack record, by singling him out and not calling holds on just him 5) your tinfoil hat crafted from the wings clearly has ranch dressing residue 6) being done is your best move Wide right 2 hours ago, Tenhigh said: Easy man, we're all bills fans, no need to throw ranch at the guy. I think his point is valid that Jerry's poor rep with officials doesn't do him any favor when it comes to holding calls. These refs are human too. Thanks. I appreciate it. It appears some folks in here are capable of applying logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Azucho98 said: Sammy Watkins is headed to the Buffalo Bills, who moved up five spots in a trade with the Cleveland Browns to take the wide receiver with the No. 4 overall pick in the NFL draft. The Bills sent the ninth overall pick along with their first- and fourth-round selections in 2015 to Cleveland in the trade -- one of five deals made during Thursday night's event. Gave up the 9th overall pick in 2014 and 1st and 4th round picks in 2015 to get him. Yes, but the 9th overall pick was was just moved up 5 spots. It technically wasn't given up. We still had a 1st round pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemfield2622 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said: Yes, but the 9th overall pick was was just moved up 5 spots. It technically wasn't given up. We still had a 1st round pick Sigh. He was our 1st round pick in 2014 and 2015 That's 2 1st round picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Yes, but the 9th overall pick was was just moved up 5 spots. It technically wasn't given up. We still had a 1st round pick Did we have a first round pick in 2015????? NO. Therefore, Watkins cost TWO number one picks. One in 2014, and another in 2015. Was he worth it? Hell no...That draft was full of WR talent. They could have picked OBJ at 9 and kept their first round pick in 2015. Landry also came out the same year and went in the second round. Edited December 22, 2018 by Azucho98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 11 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: All very valid points. But think you may have missed my point. I was trying to say the trade up for Zay was stupid and short sighted because there were like 5-6 comparable receivers on the board at the time of the trade up. They forced that pick when they didn't' need to and lost assets doing so. Same with the trade up for Sammy and Reggie Ragland, and Dion Dawkins as well. One could argue the Tremaine trade up is one as well. LVE, Evans etc were still on the board, but the Bills moved up for him because they felt they were getting a top ten talent who dropped a bit. I'm simply saying that that thought process doesn't make a ton of sense. You still have to develop the player but trading up to grab a guy who is similar in potential to 5-6 guys who are still on the board is a poor way to use assets. Maybe they felt these were the right "process" guys and made the slight move up to make sure they got them. As for Zay, he is a slot receiver who has been through too many QBs here. He was playing much better when he wasn't the number 1. An offseason with Allen could do him wonders. His maturity level has gone up this season and so has his production. He hasn't been perfect by any means but he's shown progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I prefer to look forward, not backward. New FO, no need to dwell in the past and beat anybody up. It’s a pointless exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 It's too early to tell, because we don't know the future, but early returns suggest that Brandon Beane knows how to find some players who could have staying power, which is what you need to build a team. No, he's not going to hit on everybody, but Buffalo may have a QB, and they may have a middle linebacker. Harrison Phillips is not wowing people like we thought he might, but he may still be a role player for this team, and Taron Johnson, when healthy looks like a keeper. I'm not citing players picked in 2017 even though Tre White turned out to be a terrific pick. That was a transition year, with picks based on scouting from the previous regime. The 2018 draft was all on Beane though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Azucho98 said: Did we have a first round pick in 2015????? NO. Therefore, Watkins cost TWO number one picks. One in 2014, and another in 2015. Was he worth it? Hell no...That draft was full of WR talent. They could have picked OBJ at 9 and kept their first round pick in 2015. Landry also came out the same year and went in the second round. The return of one of the most inane arguments ever. You are absolutely correct, of course Sammy Decoy cost us 2 #1 picks. And a 4th. Thanks Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) On 12/20/2018 at 5:42 PM, The Real Buffalo Joe said: You always hear about the players the Bills have passed on in recent (20) years. But how many of them would have even had success in the team that we had at the time? Biggest names we hear are Brady (Who was a diamond in the rough that every other team passed on 6 times) Gronk Could have traded up for Big Ben Russell Wilson Just to name a few. Brady and Wilson were misses for everyone, but Big ben obtainable and would have made a difference. The two that jump out to me most was Troup over Gronkowski and Maybin over Orapko. Those were ones where no trade up was needed, the right player who was a good fit was there and Buffalo flat out went with a horrible alternative. Edited December 22, 2018 by dgrochester55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Clemfield2622 said: Sigh. He was our 1st round pick in 2014 and 2015 That's 2 1st round picks. yes every player picked cost a pick. This is all semantics, however, we should use it in the same context that the vast majority of teams and fans and media use it as. did Maybin cost a 1st ? did Dareus cost a 1st ? no one ever states a player cost a 1st round pick when team uses the pick to pick the player. It cost nothing as they have the player that that pick was used for. Watkins cost an extra 1st. So a premium was paid to draft him and a 2nd 1st round pick the next year was the cost (in addition to the 4th) However context is needed: a pick traded in a later season is worth one less round than the round it is due to time value. So that 1st rd pick traded for Watkins the following year was worth a 2nd rd pick at the time of the trade. Bills also gained value by moving up 5 spots with the swap of picks in 1st. So the trade of Bills 1st that year was traded for more than what #9 pick was worth if they stayed at 9. Watkins was not Bills 1st rd pick in 2015. Bills had no 1st rd pick in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Could be here all day with this. first come to mind : JJ Watt Hiloti Ngata Clay Matthews Khalil Mack. Aaron Rodgers (due to jp losman trade) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemfield2622 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 6 hours ago, cba fan said: yes every player picked cost a pick. This is all semantics, however, we should use it in the same context that the vast majority of teams and fans and media use it as. did Maybin cost a 1st ? did Dareus cost a 1st ? no one ever states a player cost a 1st round pick when team uses the pick to pick the player. It cost nothing as they have the player that that pick was used for. Watkins cost an extra 1st. So a premium was paid to draft him and a 2nd 1st round pick the next year was the cost (in addition to the 4th) However context is needed: a pick traded in a later season is worth one less round than the round it is due to time value. So that 1st rd pick traded for Watkins the following year was worth a 2nd rd pick at the time of the trade. Bills also gained value by moving up 5 spots with the swap of picks in 1st. So the trade of Bills 1st that year was traded for more than what #9 pick was worth if they stayed at 9. Watkins was not Bills 1st rd pick in 2015. Bills had no 1st rd pick in 2015. Double sigh If you spend $1 on gum, how much did the gum cost? This isn't rocket science. Yes, Maybin and Dareus cost a 1st. That was the price to secure their service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriftygamer83 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 5:42 PM, The Real Buffalo Joe said: You always hear about the players the Bills have passed on in recent (20) years. But how many of them would have even had success in the team that we had at the time? Biggest names we hear are Brady (Who was a diamond in the rough that every other team passed on 6 times) Gronk Could have traded up for Big Ben Russell Wilson Just to name a few. Never forget Whaley and Nix told TJ Graham not to study the playbook, destroying his confidence in himself, and then when he is put in admitted he was basically not allowed to study or learn the offense as he would just be a backup until the next year. If we had drafted Wilson after Whaley “scouted” him Buffalo would have ruined him. Whaley will ruin the XFL considering how much of a hole with salary cap issues he left Buffalo with. 6 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Could be here all day with this. first come to mind : JJ Watt Hiloti Ngata Clay Matthews Khalil Mack. Aaron Rodgers (due to jp losman trade) Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley needed to go they were terribly ineffective at drafting and assessing talent. Without Linda Wilson; Buddy Nix was just riding coat tails. 9 hours ago, dgrochester55 said: Brady and Wilson were misses for everyone, but Big ben obtainable and would have made a difference. The two that jump out to me most was Troup over Gronkowski and Maybin over Orapko. Those were ones where no trade up was needed, the right player who was a good fit was there and Buffalo flat out went with a horrible alternative. Nix and Whaley were full of ineffective evaluation and assessment of players. It pretty much defined their careers and put them into where they are now. Doug might look like a good executive on paper; but he’s horribly mismanaged salary cap options and hamstrung the Bills until next year. Nix might look like a good “advisor” but his shining light in the NFL was only because he rode the coat tails of Linda Brogdan (Wilson) before her death of cancer. Beane and McDermott are now righting the ship and have something that Whaley and Nix lacked the intellectualism of drafting; a franchise Quarterback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Taking Marcel Dareaus ober JJ Watt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tazor Face said: Taking Marcel Dareaus ober JJ Watt JJ watt had 11 sacks in college. Dareus was the best defensive player on the national champs. This is the definition of hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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