What's a common thread among recent Allen analyses?

[John from Riverside]

Just now, NoSaint said:

 

Go back to the offseason John, you were pretty darn optimistic on the group. We’ve done this before, we don’t have to do it again.

Who is not optomistic on the offseason?  

 

Based on the flashes that Kelvin Benjamin showed (when healthy) last year why was there not a reason to be hopeful of some production.

 

When the season started you could see that was not going to be the case......Kelvin gets deservidly cut.....Clay is a no show

 

but we DID find Robert Foster

[BillsSB2020]

1 hour ago, Rubes said:

Allen played pretty well -- at home against a sub-.500 team with a ton of injuries.

 

On the road, in the nightmare that is Foxboro, with a low-talent offense, against Belichick and Brady who are trying to avoid a 3-game losing streak?

 

I won't be too upset if Allen ***** the bed, like nearly every rookie QB seems to do there. He'll have his ups and downs, I'm just looking for more ups than downs. If he puts together a solid game I'll be overjoyed.

 

You're clearly not seeing that the kid is improving each and every week. You're expecting him to perform like past Bills quarterbacks ala Tyrod, Edwards, EJ, Losman etc. This kid is different and there's ZERO BB can do about it. Winners don't lay eggs in Foxborough. We may not win, but Allen will improve once again.

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Who is not optomistic on the offseason?  

 

Based on the flashes that Kelvin Benjamin showed (when healthy) last year why was there not a reason to be hopeful of some production.

 

When the season started you could see that was not going to be the case......Kelvin gets deservidly cut.....Clay is a no show

 

but we DID find Robert Foster

 

And based on joshs flashes I’m optimistic but it’s early. That’s all we are debating here. He has done some good things. Some guys really step up, others fade back a bit after rookie seasons. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, NoSaint said:

 

And based on joshs flashes I’m optimistic but it’s early. That’s all we are debating here. He has done some good things. Some guys really step up, others fade back a bit after rookie seasons. 

True

 

but

 

The Josh Allen draft pick was all about future potential and not even about this year because his upside is stupid high.......work ethic is there........improving by the game.......and this with a aweful OL and receiving core through much of the season.

[eball]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I don't see Allen having a passing game breakout Sunday with this current group of skill players.  If the Pats take away Allen's runs and Fosters receptions what's left?  A conventional running game in which the backs are either practice squad players or injury hobbled vets?  Or TE play that could be shut down by dropping your nose tackle into coverage (ok this is a an exaggeration but you get the point)  or a stable of WR's whose distinguishing characteristics are not getting open, not making tough catches and dropping passes?  Even a solid contributor like McKenzie may be playing hurt.

 

And on the other side you have a NE team playing at home and desperate for a win.  Bottom line is I fully expect Allen to take a step back on Sunday.  We'll have to wait until next year and the revamping of the offense for Allen to have a breakout passing game and to beat the Pats.

 

I hope I'm wrong though because it would be one hell of a Christmas present to beat the Pats on Sunday. 

 

Your reasoning is sound, but I think Daboll's familiarity with Belichick is also a plus.  The truth is if you have a QB who is a legitimate threat to pass from the pocket as well as run, you're really picking your poison as a defense.  That's why Allen is so damned intriguing.  If he really "gets it" between the ears his skill set immediately rockets him into the upper echelon of NFL QBs.

 

Sure, the Pats*** can play a man deep over Foster and put a spy on Allen but if they do that we're playing 10-against-8.  I like those odds with a talented QB.

[billsredneck1]

2 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I hope Bills fans don't get too down on Allen this week.  Belichick is smart enough to make it tough on a rookie qb.  This will be a tough test for Allen.  I expect to see him struggle in this game , maybe even a few ints.  It will be fun to see what he can do against the Patriots. 

i think this one's up to the coaching.  i think they should go 4 wide + shady on the line. they can't cover everybody.  let them run their ***** off trying to cover. let them use a defender as a spy who cares. let him throw 30+ times.  take chances on early downs and don't get into 3rd and longs.

 

i'm not gonna address everyone who has quoted me, but in regards to accuracy and percentage, keep in mind....

50% of  his passes are over 10 yds.

20% of his passes are over  20 yds.

i believe over beyond that accounts for another 5-10%

 

these are the lowest percentage of passes to complete,  therefore....given the state of the oline and wrs,  his comp. % should not be used as a measure as to whether or not he will be a good to great qb. i vote he will be great.

[BillsSB2020]

6 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

100 percent Gug

 

Baffles me anyone can actually watch Josh play and think he is plagued by these accuracy issues lol...9 starts in, from a rookie who everyone saw as a huge project, and he is already carrying a worthless offense to victorys...crazy

We needn't trash our fellas in order to prop up Allen. We all know Allen is the real deal but Foster is rounding into form and the guys are working their tails off. Josh has the ability to elevate those around him as we saw in the Mic'd up bit. There's plenty of guys who'll stick next season like McKensie, Foster, Dawkins, Teller, and yes even Croom.

 

Let's support our boys in blue!

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, BillsSB2020 said:

We needn't trash our fellas in order to prop up Allen. We all know Allen is the real deal but Foster is rounding into form and the guys are working their tails off. Josh has the ability to elevate those around him as we saw in the Mic'd up bit. There's plenty of guys who'll stick next season like McKensie, Foster, Dawkins, Teller, and yes even Croom.

 

Let's support our boys in blue!

i'm amped for the process of the off season.  if we get a solid line where josh gets 3-4 Mississippi along with one  (hopefully 2) dynamic wrs, look out.

[BillsSB2020]

4 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I hope Bills fans don't get too down on Allen this week.  Belichick is smart enough to make it tough on a rookie qb.  This will be a tough test for Allen.  I expect to see him struggle in this game , maybe even a few ints.  It will be fun to see what he can do against the Patriots. 

OK Mister Negative!? I understand this is a tough matchup and I expect Josh to take some time to adjust to Belichick but he's gonna make a lot of things happen out there I believe. I don't know that we'll win, but we have our franchise QB AT LONG LAST. We've had some nice young men at QB but nobody who had this kind of raw talent and sticktoitevness. I expect Josh to make some wow plays even if he makes a few errors along the way. I don't see this team getting smoked with Josh. He understands the importance of this rivalry and he's gonna make sure the team shows up and shows out even if we fall short.

[Kelly the Dog]

The Lions decided not to rush hard, that is why Josh had time and had a pocket most of the afternoon, and we saw what he could do from it. But he is not going to have that pocket and time in the last couple games. The line didn't really get that much better the defense was just stupid. This is not Josh's fault. In fact, it shows more about how good he is already if anything. He never got time the whole season on a regular basis. And he picked them apart.

 

Plus, it is a testament to his skills that this happened. Patricia decided that he wasn't going to let Allen beat him with his running so he allowed him to pass. And Josh beat him with his arm. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

Your reasoning is sound, but I think Daboll's familiarity with Belichick is also a plus.  The truth is if you have a QB who is a legitimate threat to pass from the pocket as well as run, you're really picking your poison as a defense.  That's why Allen is so damned intriguing.  If he really "gets it" between the ears his skill set immediately rockets him into the upper echelon of NFL QBs.

 

Sure, the Pats*** can play a man deep over Foster and put a spy on Allen but if they do that we're playing 10-against-8.  I like those odds with a talented QB.

Trust me when I say that I hope I'm wrong here.  To beat the Pats in their place, possibly hammering the final nails into the coffin of their dynasty and robbing them of any chance for a 1st round bye in the playoffs would be so sweet. 

[Rubes]

4 hours ago, BillsSB2020 said:

You're clearly not seeing that the kid is improving each and every week. You're expecting him to perform like past Bills quarterbacks ala Tyrod, Edwards, EJ, Losman etc. This kid is different and there's ZERO BB can do about it. Winners don't lay eggs in Foxborough. We may not win, but Allen will improve once again.

 

I said nothing of the sort. I am a big Allen fan and I clearly believe (as I have indicated in other posts) that he has improved wekk after week. His game against the Lions was the kind of game I have been looking for from him. Not overwhelming statistically (or points-wise), but he was sitting in the pocket and making good throws. I think so far he's got what it takes, he just has to continually improve.

 

Improvement, as others have pointed out, is not always a straight line. I was pointing out why next game may not be all sunshine and unicorns. He's playing on the road, in a tough stadium, against a coach that has traditionally feasted against rookie QBs. I'm just saying don't be surprised if he doesn't look so spectacular against a December Pats**** team. And if he doesn't, it's no big thing, he'll still improve.

[BillsSB2020]

3 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

I said nothing of the sort. I am a big Allen fan and I clearly believe (as I have indicated in other posts) that he has improved wekk after week. His game against the Lions was the kind of game I have been looking for from him. Not overwhelming statistically (or points-wise), but he was sitting in the pocket and making good throws. I think so far he's got what it takes, he just has to continually improve.

 

Improvement, as others have pointed out, is not always a straight line. I was pointing out why next game may not be all sunshine and unicorns. He's playing on the road, in a tough stadium, against a coach that has traditionally feasted against rookie QBs. I'm just saying don't be surprised if he doesn't look so spectacular against a December Pats**** team. And if he doesn't, it's no big thing, he'll still improve.

Oh I think he may struggle some and there should be no expectations that the club MUST win or anything like that. I have seen enough from Allen to believe he's not going to look like past Bills quarterbacks. It's a tough environment to be sure but I believe Josh is up to the challenge. I don't expect a repeat of the GB performance is all I'm saying because he's been much better since his time off.

[gobills1212]

This brings zero to the conversation really, just thought it was funny to read an article about Kelly and in it find a SUPER lazy take on Allen used as an example of getting a chance bc hes white. Pretty lame, but apparently he gets a chance bc hes white...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/the-white-privilege-of-chad-kelly/amp/

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

This brings zero to the conversation really, just thought it was funny to read an article about Kelly and in it find a SUPER lazy take on Allen used as an example of getting a chance bc hes white. Pretty lame, but apparently he gets a chance bc hes white...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/the-white-privilege-of-chad-kelly/amp/

 

I know right? - in this hypothetical scenario I’m assuming his non-white uncle is a pro football hall of Famer? 

 

So Warren Moons nephew wouldn’t have gotten the same shot?

 

 nepotism is to blame here. Poor take and the wrong ‘ism’ 

[Alphadawg7]

55 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Trust me when I say that I hope I'm wrong here.  To beat the Pats in their place, possibly hammering the final nails into the coffin of their dynasty and robbing them of any chance for a 1st round bye in the playoffs would be so sweet. 

 

One thing about your OP before this one...its easy to say "If the Pats take away Josh running and also Foster, what's left".  You can say that about every team...if you take away two of their most effective players on offense, whats left.  Its actually taking that away that is the challenge.  

 

NE is giving up the most yards in the NFL to QB's on the ground.  Yes, they know they need to take Josh ability to run away, but effectively doing it is a whole other ball game.  Everyone was put on notice about him as a runner in the Vikes game, yet he put up 3 consecutive 100+ yards game going into Detroit game (yes I know kneeling knocked him down to 99 against Jax).  

 

Trying to take Foster out of the game is another challenge.  NE has corners to cover him, but one of the single most difficult things in the NFL to do is hold coverage a long time when a QB is buying time scrambling.  Foster is not an easy to guy to stick with once the QB starts running around if he makes adjustments.  Also, he is pretty fast and has been able to get past or behind multiple defenses now, including the Lions and Jax both of which strengths are the secondary.  

 

So while I get what you are saying, and its not even incorrect really, it is just easier said than done.  And NE doesn't have a very good defense.  They do however have a HC who is the best ever at defending and scheming against young QB's and I do think BB is taking Allen VERY seriously.  So will be interesting to watch this matchup for sure.  

[Alphadawg7]

58 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

I said nothing of the sort. I am a big Allen fan and I clearly believe (as I have indicated in other posts) that he has improved wekk after week. His game against the Lions was the kind of game I have been looking for from him. Not overwhelming statistically (or points-wise), but he was sitting in the pocket and making good throws. I think so far he's got what it takes, he just has to continually improve.

 

Improvement, as others have pointed out, is not always a straight line. I was pointing out why next game may not be all sunshine and unicorns. He's playing on the road, in a tough stadium, against a coach that has traditionally feasted against rookie QBs. I'm just saying don't be surprised if he doesn't look so spectacular against a December Pats**** team. And if he doesn't, it's no big thing, he'll still improve.

 

Good post.  He has undeniably made significant improvements.  Doesn't mean he won't have a rough game still.  And he will learn more right now from his misses, mistakes, and failures than he will learn from his successes.  One of the biggest challenges for young strong arm QB's is learning what NOT to do and WHEN to do this or that.  And this is the time to put those mistakes on film to study them and learn from them.  So if he goes out and has a down game at some point, big deal, it's just going to be more for him to study and grow from.

 

But the reality is...there is a dark under belly around here who is waiting to pounce the second he has a hiccup.  If he struggles in a game this year, won't matter how much he has shown the last 4 weeks, those people (and we know who they are) will FLOOD this board with "I told you he sucks" threads to no end.  And the moment he has a good game again, they will quite down again and just rant and rave inside threads waiting for that next "I told you so" moment where they can be thread starting machines.    

[longtimebillsfan]

8 hours ago, BillsSB2020 said:

OK Mister Negative!? I understand this is a tough matchup and I expect Josh to take some time to adjust to Belichick but he's gonna make a lot of things happen out there I believe. I don't know that we'll win, but we have our franchise QB AT LONG LAST. We've had some nice young men at QB but nobody who had this kind of raw talent and sticktoitevness. I expect Josh to make some wow plays even if he makes a few errors along the way. I don't see this team getting smoked with Josh. He understands the importance of this rivalry and he's gonna make sure the team shows up and shows out even if we fall short.

I agree with you.  I believe we have our franchise qb as well.  I hope Allen show that he can adjust to what ever the Patriots throw at him.

 

By the way, you don't have to be so formal with the Mister.  Just call me Negative.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

‘What’s a common thread among recent Allen analyses?’

*

Responses by the forum participants saying “Not another Allen analysis!”  ?

[bills11]

This week is gonna be really interesting . Belichick likes to force QBs and offences in general outside their comfort zone ..hell spy Allen and probably bracket foster because Belichick doesn't overlook small details this will be a game where Zay and the rest have to get seperation and the run game is crucial .