Bocephuz Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: crazy how he looks like he has no leverage with poor footwork, yet is still strong as an ox most times to compensate. yeah.. his strength definitely covers up some technical flaws. but im ok with that.. technique can be learned .. natural strength and attitude lime that is somewhat god given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I wonder if Teller could play center ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I like Teller’s trajectory. He’s a work in progress but shows a ton of promise. Regarding Dawkins, I’m not sure I understand the criticism. The biggest reason the coaches felt comfortable dealing Glenn was because of the high level of play Dawkins gave last year. He’s a very good LT. And the biggest reason for his struggles this year was the loss of RI and EW. As it was for the entire OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bocephuz said: WYATT TELLER PASS PROTECT ANALYSIS I watched the All 22 from the Jets game and analyzed every pass protect snap by Wyatt Teller in the first half. I did not have time to watch the 2nd half.. (I do have a real job) .. however.. I think it a good sample size to show examples where he played well, was fooled on stunts.. and perhaps most importantly examples that showed he didn't repeat the same mistake twice. My system for grading is "Win" , "Loss" and "Draw" as described below: WIN block is material to the play block/assignment is executed well DRAW block is not material to the play block is executed well enough LOSS block is material to the play block/assignment is executed poorly DISCLAIMER: I am not a coach, I do not know exactly the play call or blocking assignment called on each play. I am merely an interested observer who focuses on O Line play every week and the following analysis is based on my observations --- OVERALL PERFORMANCE By my count there were 26 pass plays in the first half (including penalty plays etc...). "Won" 13/26 , "Lost" 3/26, "Draw" 10/26 ----- -- GIF BREAKDOWNS WIN : Q1: 14:29 - Teller is initially pushed back by #99 but rallies.. resets.. and gets his hands into the pads to push his man back at the last minute.. buying time for Allen to complete 18 yd strike. Teller demonstrates strenght, resolve and good technique in fighting through losing the initial punch. WIN: Q1 2:01 - Teller initially helps Dawkins with a double team .. but in doing that he is late in recognizing DE #96 coming in on delayed stunt. He miraculously avoids disaster however by getting there just in time and knocking #96 on his ass.. allowing for Allen to complete pass to Clay LOSS Q2: 4:56 - Teller goes to help Dawkins double #96 .. does not see Twist stunt from #50 leading to #50 flushing Allen from the pocket.. and eventually an INT LOSS: Q2 2:31 - FALSE START WIN: Q2 1:34 - Jets run as similar stunt as shown earlier with #50 and #96... but this time Teller picks it up quickly.. engages #50 and manhandles him WIN Q2 1:26 - Teller picks up the same stunt again showing he can think on his feet and adapt LOSS Q2 1:12 - Teller misreads the stunt this time and gets to #96 too late causing a pressure on Allen ---- CONCLUSION By no means was Teller perfect in pass protect in 1st half. However.. he did show some positive traits.. namely His strength often helps make up for poor technique or poor recognition He showed the ability to adapt and not get beat by the same stunt There were no holding penalties in the first half On the negative side A False Start is almost always inexcusable.. gotta clean that up He did misread a few stunts At the end of the day the Jets threw quite a few stunts at Teller and Dawkins in the first half ( mainly #50 and #96 working together) and the pair was 2/4 in picking them up. Hopefully Dawkins and Teller develop some chemistry here and learn to trust each other more in picking up stunts. I think the future is bright for Teller.. he seems to have the movement skills and strength to hang in the NFL and certainly has an attitude in finishing blocks. Hopefully with more experience will come less examples of him getting fooled by stunts. From what I've seen I believe he can develop into a reliable starting NFL Guard. ( On a side note .. John Miller is completely shot... I was a fan of his and had high expectations for him this year but its time to pull the plug) ( Also.. Juan Castillo likely needs to be fired. It seems like most of the time he calls for the Guards to double team it ends in busted protection) Thanks for putting in the effort on this...I thought Teller had a tough time with the Jet stunts, and at times he did - as did much of the o-line. I like him, he just needs some seasoning. That stunt that a lot of teams use, including the Bills, of lining up an end in a wide 9 and then having him come across and split the LT and LG and then loop a LDT around, or when they take the LT high with the DT and crash across the face of the LG with that LDE once again from a wide 9 only to have an interior RDT twist around and into the gap... creates a lot of problems. Only thing you can teach is that guys have to be "positionally" sound, focusing on gap blocking and ease off the double-teams. Edited December 15, 2018 by WideNine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Much like Richie with his feet,he'll only get better. Great thread,thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 7 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Thanks for this.....I am focusing on Teller because I feel like they want him to be a starter next year no matter what they do in free agency or draft Any reason why could not move Teller to RG? I feel like Dawkins best position os LG....if we draft a legit LT....move Dawkins to LG....free agent C.....Teller to RG....then figure out what to do at RT we might actually have something. Didn’t Dawkins struggle trying to move to RT in camp? Everything was reversed and it didn’t go well, as I recall. As we’ve done with our houses, take your weakest point, and make it your strength. Re-do the OLine, and we have a whole new ball game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Great work, appreciate the insight! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Bocephuz said: I would not be opposed to moving Teller to RG. Dawkins flashes good play at LT but also has struggled mightily at times. Only concern is that he is learning valuable footwork and reps at LG and would hesitate to have him have to reorient I would not characterize Dawkins as a "Stud". He has been passable at LT.. but he has a ways to go to get to Cordy Glenn level He is more than serviceable. Imo the issue with NFL o line is trying to move LTs to other OL positions as If its madden. Dawkins wasnt able to beat out Mills last year at RT. At LT his natural position he has performed much better. Enough to warrant a trade of often injured Glenn. In the middle rounds find a RT. Bring in a veteran a center and guard and Buffalos line will be much improved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted December 15, 2018 Author Share Posted December 15, 2018 2 hours ago, WideNine said: Thanks for putting in the effort on this...I thought Teller had a tough time with the Jet stunts, and at times he did - as did much of the o-line. I like him, he just needs some seasoning. That stunt that a lot of teams use, including the Bills, of lining up an end in a wide 9 and then having him come across and split the LT and LG and then loop a LDT around, or when they take the LT high with the DT and crash across the face of the LG with that LDE once again from a wide 9 only to have an interior RDT twist around and into the gap... creates a lot of problems. Only thing you can teach is that guys have to be "positionally" sound, focusing on gap blocking and ease off the double-teams. agree completely on the ease off the double team thing. more i watch o line pass protect more i think ‘zone’ stay in your gap blocking for pass protect is way to go. gap integrity for O line should be same as d line. this is why i think Castillo should be fired. way too many unnecessary double teams 27 minutes ago, Mat68 said: He is more than serviceable. Imo the issue with NFL o line is trying to move LTs to other OL positions as If its madden. Dawkins wasnt able to beat out Mills last year at RT. At LT his natural position he has performed much better. Enough to warrant a trade of often injured Glenn. In the middle rounds find a RT. Bring in a veteran a center and guard and Buffalos line will be much improved. Dawkins is likely an average LT at best.. which isn’t the worst thing. he’s definitely not a RT as his run blocking is poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bocephuz said: agree completely on the ease off the double team thing. more i watch o line pass protect more i think ‘zone’ stay in your gap blocking for pass protect is way to go. gap integrity for O line should be same as d line. this is why i think Castillo should be fired. way too many unnecessary double teams Dawkins is likely an average LT at best.. which isn’t the worst thing. he’s definitely not a RT as his run blocking is poor Brady takes some of the least amount of hits in the pocket, and a lot of that is because the NE o-line usually does a really good job of assigning each man to a gap. Even when a o-lineman is left uncovered, more often than not, he backpedals to stay in position relative to the rest of the line while staying in his gap rather than turning to double up on someone else. IMO a good strategy for countering twists and stunts as well as ensuring someone is manning a gap to pickup delayed blitzes. Our boys need some more coaching or better coaching. I can't say I know enough about Castillo to say he is the problem, but if there is a proven o-line coach who is a good teacher and McBeane thinks he would be an upgrade, and you plan to upgrade your o-line players, this off season would be the time to get that guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted December 15, 2018 Author Share Posted December 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, WideNine said: Brady takes some of the least amount of hits in the pocket, and a lot of that is because the NE o-line usually does a really good job of assigning each man to a gap. Even when a o-lineman is left uncovered, more often than not, he backpedals to stay in position relative to the rest of the line while staying in his gap rather than turning to double up on someone else. IMO a good strategy for countering twists and stunts as well as ensuring someone is manning a gap to pickup delayed blitzes. Our boys need some more coaching or better coaching. I can't say I know enough about Castillo to say he is the problem, but if there is a proven o-line coach who is a good teacher and McBeane thinks he would be an upgrade, and you plan to upgrade your o-line players, this off season would be the time to get that guy. this seems all to logical.. good info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I wonder how much the OL would improve if the Bills had a top OL coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriftygamer83 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Adding a year to this inexperienced line and undrafted in some cases will do wonders in getting them up to speed. I still say we go 8-8 then build up to 9-7; going 12-4 thereafter building up a competitive franchise with the right pieces in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Great work Bocephuz, and the evidence of a quality post is the informative discussion it leads to. You win! A few thoughts: RT to improve the overall quality of the line, its a no-brainer, do it. Teller has much to work with, he seems to have grit, game smarts, and he certainly has the raw strength to work with---if he becomes a Richie Incognito level player "on the field," that position is set for a good number of years. But, I would apply the same logic above about DD here, if a better LG is attainable, then yes, move Teller to the right side and the entire line improves. I think Bodine is serviceable at Center. A bigger priority is the right side, however that can be done--new people there, or the move options mentioned above. As a few have said, although the preferred way is to slot people and let them grow, the biggest objective is to get the five best O-linemen on the field. Doing so may mean changing a few positions where it makes sense. The team now has franchise level QB talent, now it needs to give him the maximum opportunity to grow into that. So, no matter how you do it, get your five best players out there. Edited December 15, 2018 by CSBill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 17 hours ago, I Make All The Throws said: Other than when he faced Myles Garrett, I can't think of a time he's struggled to block anybody. I certainly haven't noticed him in a bad way. Since he's facing the opponent's best pass rusher each and every week, shutting pretty much all of them down is not just average. He's very good. Our problems are elsewhere. Don't fix what ain't broken, IMO. He is decent. He has definitely not proven to be "very good". Speed rushers have caused him problems all year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 16 hours ago, 1st&ten said: I wonder if Teller could play center ?? Thinking the same thing. The guy's a bull 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideRightRevenge Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 19 hours ago, Bocephuz said: WYATT TELLER PASS PROTECT ANALYSIS I watched the All 22 from the Jets game and analyzed every pass protect snap by Wyatt Teller in the first half. I did not have time to watch the 2nd half.. (I do have a real job) .. however.. I think it a good sample size to show examples where he played well, was fooled on stunts.. and perhaps most importantly examples that showed he didn't repeat the same mistake twice. My system for grading is "Win" , "Loss" and "Draw" as described below: WIN block is material to the play block/assignment is executed well DRAW block is not material to the play block is executed well enough LOSS block is material to the play block/assignment is executed poorly DISCLAIMER: I am not a coach, I do not know exactly the play call or blocking assignment called on each play. I am merely an interested observer who focuses on O Line play every week and the following analysis is based on my observations --- OVERALL PERFORMANCE By my count there were 26 pass plays in the first half (including penalty plays etc...). "Won" 13/26 , "Lost" 3/26, "Draw" 10/26 ----- -- GIF BREAKDOWNS WIN : Q1: 14:29 - Teller is initially pushed back by #99 but rallies.. resets.. and gets his hands into the pads to push his man back at the last minute.. buying time for Allen to complete 18 yd strike. Teller demonstrates strenght, resolve and good technique in fighting through losing the initial punch. WIN: Q1 2:01 - Teller initially helps Dawkins with a double team .. but in doing that he is late in recognizing DE #96 coming in on delayed stunt. He miraculously avoids disaster however by getting there just in time and knocking #96 on his ass.. allowing for Allen to complete pass to Clay LOSS Q2: 4:56 - Teller goes to help Dawkins double #96 .. does not see Twist stunt from #50 leading to #50 flushing Allen from the pocket.. and eventually an INT LOSS: Q2 2:31 - FALSE START WIN: Q2 1:34 - Jets run as similar stunt as shown earlier with #50 and #96... but this time Teller picks it up quickly.. engages #50 and manhandles him WIN Q2 1:26 - Teller picks up the same stunt again showing he can think on his feet and adapt LOSS Q2 1:12 - Teller misreads the stunt this time and gets to #96 too late causing a pressure on Allen ---- CONCLUSION By no means was Teller perfect in pass protect in 1st half. However.. he did show some positive traits.. namely His strength often helps make up for poor technique or poor recognition He showed the ability to adapt and not get beat by the same stunt There were no holding penalties in the first half On the negative side A False Start is almost always inexcusable.. gotta clean that up He did misread a few stunts At the end of the day the Jets threw quite a few stunts at Teller and Dawkins in the first half ( mainly #50 and #96 working together) and the pair was 2/4 in picking them up. Hopefully Dawkins and Teller develop some chemistry here and learn to trust each other more in picking up stunts. I think the future is bright for Teller.. he seems to have the movement skills and strength to hang in the NFL and certainly has an attitude in finishing blocks. Hopefully with more experience will come less examples of him getting fooled by stunts. From what I've seen I believe he can develop into a reliable starting NFL Guard. ( On a side note .. John Miller is completely shot... I was a fan of his and had high expectations for him this year but its time to pull the plug) ( Also.. Juan Castillo likely needs to be fired. It seems like most of the time he calls for the Guards to double team it ends in busted protection) Bocephuz ... great work .. love seeing OL play from these clips ... I am a fan of Teller .. he's got a nasty streak (ala Richie . .but hopefully a better melon) that OL needs. Glad he's finally getting some reps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He is decent. He has definitely not proven to be "very good". Speed rushers have caused him problems all year. From what I've read this is the same concern with Jonah Williams. I'm not as high on taking him in the top 10 as many on this board are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 28 minutes ago, HappyDays said: From what I've read this is the same concern with Jonah Williams. I'm not as high on taking him in the top 10 as many on this board are. Me neither. I think Jonah is a bit of a higher ceiling than Dion but like Dion I think he can be a decent tackle who will struggle with lack of length to fend off speed rushers but potentially elite at guard. He is a first rounder but not a top 10 player for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Me neither. I think Jonah is a bit of a higher ceiling than Dion but like Dion I think he can be a decent tackle who will struggle with lack of length to fend off speed rushers but potentially elite at guard. He is a first rounder but not a top 10 player for me. Is John Miller irredeemable? What happened to him? I thought he was going to be a solid pro. Is he in the wrong system or simply not good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts