Bills need to learn how to close out games

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

The Bills are not that good of a team right now. It's only the second season under this regime and they are not finished with rebuilding this team. We just have to wait and see.

 

Let's see what happens during this upcoming off season. I personally feel better and more optimistic about the future of the Bills, than I have in recent years.

 

I agree with this, and I really believe there is something very real about learning to find a way to win the close games. EXPECTING to win, not fearing a loss. Find a way. I like our general direction, and I think we have a lot of great parts. Nobody gets a free pass, but they get time to show how this turns out. IMO 

[2003Contenders]

42 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Two weeks in a row we held leads late only to watch our defense crumble.

 

Along those lines, the red zone defense has been putrid the last 2 weeks.

[Bob in STL]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I have one reaction to the Jets game:  the Bills have now lost two games in a row by failing to make plays to win the game.  Didn’t make the plays against the Dolphins, and didn’t make the plays against the Jets.

 

I can only speculate about it.  It’s some combination of player talent and coaching.  I’d guess mostly coaching.  McDermott talks a good game, but I’m not sure how good he is at getting his team ready for anything that could happen.  

 

Whatever the reason, this team needs to learn how to close out games.  McDermott and the players have to learn.  That’s what good teams do.  Or maybe not; maybe it’s just that you win some (Titans, Jags) and you lose some (Texans, Dolphins, Jets).   

 

They made plays,  just not nearly enough of them. 

 

I think its a lack of playmakers,  i.e. talent.  Better players make average coaches look good, but not the other way around.  

 

Look at our “vaunted” defense, best in league in yards allowed ... they gave up two fourth quarter TDs at home to a rookie QB.  Blew two leads and never touched the QB.  NEVER TOUCHED THE QB.  As bad as special teams were, and they were bad too.  They started good but when it mattered the most the defense let us down. 

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

I think its a lack of playmakers,  i.e. talent.  Better players make average coaches look good, but not the other way around.  

 

Josh Allen was our only playmaker yesterday, on either side of the ball. Honorable mention goes to Robert Foster. No one else made things happen.

[PUNT750]

4 hours ago, SDS said:

 

Eh. This just seems like fan speak to me. Other than some minor time-wasting strategies, what exactly is there to "learn"? Are they not always trying to keep the ball and get first downs? Isn't the defense always trying to stop the other team (except when the tradeoff is to keep them from stopping the clock).

 

That phrasing probably means more in a game like soccer when playing with a lead. So many more ways to waste time and keep the other team from scoring than American football.

 

Fan speak exactly - a catch phrase!  Thank You!

[billsfan89]

The last step that separates a talented 8-8 to 10-6 team that hopes to win a playoff game from a 11+ title contender is closing out games. In the NFL if you have a high degree of talent games usually come down to a few plays towards the end of games. Super Bowl teams know how to close out games. McBeane is going to have to address the lack of talent on offense and patch a hole or two on defense while McD has to take a step up as a head coach and insure that his teams are prepared consistently for as many situations as possible. 

[gobills1212]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As I understand it, every day Belichick ends practice with an end of game situation and practices what to do.  Sometimes offense, sometimes defense,  different score, different down, different time remaining.   At the end of the game the pressure is heightened, and if the players have seen something like it before they're better prepared.  

 

I don't think it's fan speak.  

 

You think Belichick isn't going to be teaching his team how to handle mthat last play better?  Of course he is.  He isnt going to just forget about it and expect that will never happen again. 

How do you know the Bills dont do that? In fact, theyve mentioned on multiple occasions they practice many odd situations- just in case it pops up they are prepared and know how to play it.

 

Things like that come with time and experience. Its litterally the difference between winning and losing. If you arent coming from behind, your looking to close it out. 

 

Generally, good teams dont let other teams stay in games. They put on the gas and close it out. Easier said than done in todays NFL and the good teams are good at it and thats why they are good.  

 

Cleaning up the penalties will certainly help their cause, but again - there are multiple aspects to nailing down the win IMO

[PUNT750]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I like 808's comment.  I think there's a difference between having Preston Brown in the middle late in games and Tremaine Edmunds.  Two years from now, tremaine will be playing at a level Brown could only dream of, but right now I don't think Edmunds teammates are thinking they have to man up like Tremaine. He just isn't that kind of leader yet. 

 

"I think there's a difference between having Preston Brown in the middle late in games and Tremaine Edmunds. "

What??  Preston was a guy you ran into - - a slow poke right behind the tackles.  With the Bengals he averaged 3.8 tackles per game before he went on IR.  He only got a 1 year contract for $4 mil.  That tells you something!  Nobody really wanted him.

I'm sorry - I think someone is slipping with their posts!

[SoCal Deek]

It’s called ‘making a play’. That’s how you close out games. The really good teams have players who step up and make a play in the final few minutes. They take a chance, they put it all on the line, they’re first to the ball, they stretch out for a catch or a tackle, and they don’t throw a pick! The last two games were there for the taking but nobody ‘made a play’. ( ie: Charles Clay in Miami)

[3rdand12]

23 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not knowing how to close out games is not the issue.  Having the talent to close out games is without question the bigger issue.  We cant close games out when guys drop passes, the OL doesnt block or creates penalties, or guys whiff on ST.  This is a talent issue.  Our coaches and Allen got us in position to win both these games, but players just didn't make the plays when needed.  

 

I am not worried about our ability to close games, I am actually quite encouraged with the level of fight I see in our guys at the end of games.  Allen damn near single handedly won us the Miami game despite the OL doing him no favors, and our receivers not giving him a lot of support.  He did enough to win, the guys around him did not.  Zay once again failed in a big moment to make a starting WR level play.  Clay dropped a game winner after terribly mismanaging the situation to make the catch harder than it needed to be (Still should have caught it anyway).  

 

I mean our rookie QB has over the last 3 games accounted for about 85% of the entire offensive production.  And he is doing this behind a bad OL and weak talent around him at the skill positions.  We wont have issues closing out games once the OL can actually block without getting a penalty and guys can actually get open on their routes and catch the ball.  

so if you say Allen did enough to win, but the others did not ?

 isn't that kinda Mr Shaws point ?
 That is Coaching as well.
 

[reddogblitz]

10 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s called ‘making a play’. That’s how you close out games. The really good teams have players who step up and make a play in the final few minutes. They take a chance, they put it all on the line, they’re first to the ball, they stretch out for a catch or a tackle, and they don’t throw a pick! The last two games were there for the taking but nobody ‘made a play’. ( ie: Charles Clay in Miami)

 

Where are Joe Webb and Deonte Thompson when we need them?

20 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Josh Allen was our only playmaker yesterday, on either side of the ball. Honorable mention goes to Robert Foster. No one else made things happen.

 

Nice TD run by Murph.

[billsfan89]

20 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

 

"I think there's a difference between having Preston Brown in the middle late in games and Tremaine Edmunds. "

What??  Preston was a guy you ran into - - a slow poke right behind the tackles.  With the Bengals he averaged 3.8 tackles per game before he went on IR.  He only got a 1 year contract for $4 mil.  That tells you something!  Nobody really wanted him.

I'm sorry - I think someone is slipping with their posts!

 

Brown would have been a 10 year starter in the 80's, 90's. or early to mid 00's. He was fundamentally sound against the run (Always went to the right hole and made the plays that were run at him), he was big enough and strong to not get mauled by most offensive lines (he was able to hold the point of attack) and honestly he seemed to be able to captain the defense in terms of calls and adjustments by all accounts. 

 

However he was never an elite run defender (I would say he was average to slightly above average) and he was piss poor in pass coverage. In a game where a balanced offense is 40% running you need your 3 down MLB to be at least capable in pass coverage (While being elite in run defense.) 

 

Edumods on the other hand is pretty good in pass coverage as a rookie and has the physical tools to be an elite player in terms of pass coverage. Edumnds also shows the ability to play the run well in terms of physicality and speed. Edumnds needs to round out in terms of his instincts, he will hit the wrong holes and miss on some plays in between and outside the tackles. He also needs to polish his coverage a bit more (He is relying on speed and length in coverage as he can be out of place.)

 

Edmunds mistakes and flaws are more so a product of his raw nature and youth. Edmunds on the back half of the season has played a lot better than he did in his first 5-6 games where he looked outright lost at times. So I think people frustrated with Edmunds struggles are forgetting that Brown was what he was and his style of play was not exactly conducive to high end production in the NFL at the MLB position. 

[The Now Moment]

On 12/10/2018 at 5:33 PM, John from Riverside said:

You need talent to win games.....

 

The bills do not have the talent on offense......and no amount of coaching is going to make players good.

 

case in point....we CANNOT RUN THE BALL

 

We led much of this game.....when you have a lead......coaches will want to run the ball to take time off the clock...unfortunately for us....our QB has most of our running yards...the guys who get paid millions just to tote the rock cannot do it because the OL is horrid.......hence we have to pass...hence we dont convert....hence we dont take any time off the clock........

 

It really is as simple as that.

Cause and effect.  Some people have a difficult time with it for some reason.

[Uncle Joe]

12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s called ‘making a play’. That’s how you close out games. The really good teams have players who step up and make a play in the final few minutes. They take a chance, they put it all on the line, they’re first to the ball, they stretch out for a catch or a tackle, and they don’t throw a pick! The last two games were there for the taking but nobody ‘made a play’. ( ie: Charles Clay in Miami)

 

35 year old vet Alexander makes play on 3rd down for loss and forces 4th and goal..

20 year old kid Edmunds wiffs on 4th down and goal that could have won the game.

 

Experience matters.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

35 year old vet Alexander makes play on 3rd down for loss and forces 4th and goal..

20 year old kid Edmunds wiffs on 4th down and goal that could have won the game.

 

Experience matters.

 

And our plan is to keep getting younger, but keep learning. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

so if you say Allen did enough to win, but the others did not ?

 isn't that kinda Mr Shaws point ?
 That is Coaching as well.
 

 

Well there is learning how to win, and then being capable of winning.  Learning how to close out games is more about believing you will win, even in do or die moments.  And this team has absolutely responded and made plays to get into position to win.  But the failures of an individual derail the teams success.  

 

So, I feel like when Allen is in the huddle, this team from top to bottom, coaches included, believe they can score and win.  And look at Miami game...Allen willed that team down the field.  He escaped a rush in a way that most QB's could never do, then got away from them enough to put the ball 50 yards through the air into the end zone where Clay drops a ball that hits him in both hands, and he made a poor adjustment in the first place making the catch harder than it should have.  

 

To me, thats not this team not knowing how to win, thats having enough play makers to rely on.  Clay dropped another big pass that should have been a big gain against the Jets.  He blew a catch last year in end zone that led to a tipped Int.  

 

So I feel like this team knows how to be scrappy and win.  But they just don't have the talent on offense that can be relied on.  I mean Allen produced over 80% of the total offense the last 3 weeks, thats insane.  But even so, every time he has the ball I feel like we can score...I feel like he can lead the charge down field for a win, and the team on the field seems to show that to IMO.  

[LSHMEAB]

On 12/10/2018 at 2:09 PM, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I know, put the game away early and all that.   

 

Do you think Bill Belichick is saying to his team, "just post better early and we won't have to make a play on some gadgets the Dolphins run"?  

 

The fact is that every team is in close games every season. Good teams make plays to win thise games.  They make plays because they are prepared to make them.  They are prepared for clock management issues. They are prepared to increase their intensity.  They are prepared to adjust based on what they've seen through the game.  

 

Coaches TEACH end of game strategy and practice situations.  

 

The Bills give me the feeling that they don't yet have what it takes. Some of it is just talent, to be sure.  And some of it is you can't win every game.  But some of it is being ready, and they don't look ready to me. 

McDermott won a lot of close games last season, which is a huge part of the reason I'm willing to give him a longer leash than most of the skeptics I tend to agree with. I don't think that was an accident.

 

I've yet to really see a McDermott choke job, which is something ALL Bills fans are accustomed to.

 

Allen has to get better and we need an elite pass rusher. I feel like it's more of a personnel issue than it is McDermott's conservative approach. That approach may very well prevent him from being a great coach. Just want to reiterate that I don't view him as a choker.

40 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

35 year old vet Alexander makes play on 3rd down for loss and forces 4th and goal..

20 year old kid Edmunds wiffs on 4th down and goal that could have won the game.

 

Experience matters.

I'm worried about Edmunds mentality more than anything.

 

He doesn't strike me as a killer. I don't know that experience will change that. 

 

I think he ultimately moves outside where he doesn't have as many responsibilities and can just use his athleticism.

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Brown would have been a 10 year starter in the 80's, 90's. or early to mid 00's. He was fundamentally sound against the run (Always went to the right hole and made the plays that were run at him), he was big enough and strong to not get mauled by most offensive lines (he was able to hold the point of attack) and honestly he seemed to be able to captain the defense in terms of calls and adjustments by all accounts. 

 

However he was never an elite run defender (I would say he was average to slightly above average) and he was piss poor in pass coverage. In a game where a balanced offense is 40% running you need your 3 down MLB to be at least capable in pass coverage (While being elite in run defense.) 

 

Edumods on the other hand is pretty good in pass coverage as a rookie and has the physical tools to be an elite player in terms of pass coverage. Edumnds also shows the ability to play the run well in terms of physicality and speed. Edumnds needs to round out in terms of his instincts, he will hit the wrong holes and miss on some plays in between and outside the tackles. He also needs to polish his coverage a bit more (He is relying on speed and length in coverage as he can be out of place.)

 

Edmunds mistakes and flaws are more so a product of his raw nature and youth. Edmunds on the back half of the season has played a lot better than he did in his first 5-6 games where he looked outright lost at times. So I think people frustrated with Edmunds struggles are forgetting that Brown was what he was and his style of play was not exactly conducive to high end production in the NFL at the MLB position. 

I agree with this. 

 

My point wasnt to suggest that Brown was or is better than Edmunds.  My point was that Brown had a presence on the field that came from his experience. He handled his job in a professional and determined way others on the team could follow.  Edmunds hasn't been around long enough to be that kind of leader.  

[Billever76]

On 12/10/2018 at 5:44 PM, Nextmanup said:

"Learning to close out games" isn't a thing.  It's what some football fans discuss.

 

You know what we needed more of yesterday? Big throws from Josh Allen at key times and fewer turnovers.

 

Competent special teams play would have gone a long way too. 

 

We did not capitalize on a lot of good situations and left points on the field throughout the game.

 

There's nothing to "learn" there per se.  The quality of Bills play needs to impove all over the field.

 

When it does, I think you'll see that we magically learn how to win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't agree about big time throws from Josh Allen needed the most in late game close games you simply can't expect your rookie QB to consistently deliver the win..I believe we need pressure on the opposing QBs and if we aren't getting it with our front 4 then we need to bring another guy and another even until we do!....Frazier just doesn't blitz and will keep on rushing his 4 until they have no more and late in games the opposing QBs find their guy bc they are not rushed..Frazier and his Tampa 2 defense needs to adjust or he needs fired...go look at the balt,first half chargers,GB, Indianapolis Miami in the last few possession and this last Jets game..now tell me where was the pressure and if our front four wasn't doing it where was the blitz?..that's FRAZIER ball and always has been..A SAFER APPROACH to the cover 2

Edited December 12, 2018 by Billever76

[CaptnCoke11]

On 12/10/2018 at 5:36 PM, HOUSE said:

Its a Buffalo Thing, The Sabres have the exact same problem

A two goal lead starting the 3rd period means nothing

It’s the losing mentality.. Those two teams are so use to losing it just happens naturally.