A Few Thoughts About the Jets Game, in no particular order

[Formerly Allan in MD]

2 hours ago, jahnyc said:

The o-line is really bad and we probably need upgrades at four positions on the o-line.  Allen had no time to throw today and the running backs had no room to run.

Been saying that constantly all season.  If we don't go OL early and often, unless we can bring in some stud free agents, we deserve what we get - and have been for years - mediocre.

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

The OL is pretty bad, exacerbated by poor to inconsistent rookie QB play. 

 

Jets had had it right today, don’t let Allen be the best athlete on the field, and make him be the best QB.  Josh is late on his throws and takes off because he isn’t quite seeing the field yet. It’s fine, he’s a rookie. But teams will TT him. Make him beat you with his arm. 

 

 

I agree Allen didn't have a great day, but no one is picking him up, when was the last time a receiver made an amazing catch to help out thier QB? I've seen way more drive killing drops than drive saving catches all season. Allen has a long way to go, but he also doesn't have the luxury of talent around him to make him look good and balance his deficiencies.

[Boatdrinks]

49 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

That says it all.

Does it ? The Browns have a much more talented roster than the Bills. 

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

Get used to it!  This will be Josh Allen his entire NFL career.

 

Inconsistency from play to play, pass to pass is who Josh Allen is.

 

Once defenses figure out how to take his running game away, he will have to do much more than he is doing now with his arm.  That's when he'll run into trouble staying in the league. 

 

I'm curious to see if he runs all over New England on 12/23.  I think Bill B. will figure out how to stop that.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

Allen missed 4-5 throws today that an NFL QB has to make. 

 

The "drop" by Clay on the 2nd drive was a terrible throw. The guy is wide open with nothing but green grass in front of him and Allen threw a bullet at his ankles. Should he have caught it, sure, but why is Allen not just laying the ball in front of him letting him run under it for a huge gain?

 

 

I must have been watching a different game because it seemed to me Allen hit Clay in the hands at stomach level.  There was NO WAY that pass was at his ankles.  I guess we'll have to wait for the 23 & me review to tell for sure.  But it looked like a perfectly thrown ball to me. 

[jrober38]

42 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think so in a game where our RBs averaged 3.4 YPC, pass blocking was poor, there were 5+ drops from the receivers, and we missed 2 FGs along with a bunch of other special teams mistakes. We scored 23 points only because of Allen. The defense and special teams and running game didn't contribute anything to that. We don't have receivers making circus catches. It's just Allen throwing good passes down field and running effectively. Yes he could have hit every pass with perfect accuracy and we would have won the game. But we shouldn't be expecting him to do that every week, certainly not this early in his career. Eventually if we ever plan on being a top offense we need playmakers and capable blockers. Right now it's just Allen doing it all on his own.

 

Experience has nothing to do with missing easy throws. You can't miss wide open receivers at the NFL level. Simple as that. 

 

Allen struggles badly anytime he throws with touch. He's great at the passes he needs to throw hard but he misses too many easy ones. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Inconsistency from play to play, pass to pass is who Josh Allen is.

 

Once defenses figure out how to take his running game away, he will have to do much more than he is doing now with his arm.  That's when he'll run into trouble staying in the league. 

 

I'm curious to see if he runs all over New England on 12/23.  I think Bill B. will figure out how to stop that.

 

 

Funny how after 3 games in a row they havn't figured it out yet.  What I'm curious about is given the lack of weapons we have around Allen, why haven't defenses been able to shut his rushing game down?  Is it because they're terrified that Clay will beat them deep down the middle? 

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Experience has nothing to do with missing easy throws. You can't miss wide open receivers at the NFL level. Simple as that. 

 

Allen struggles badly anytime he throws with touch. He's great at the passes he needs to throw hard but he misses too many easy ones. 

He made several nice touch throws today. 

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

On WGR this morning, the pregame show..they made a point of saying they think people are too hard on the OL...it seemed the consensus they agreed upon was the OL was SLIGHTLY below average.  I disagree with that. I think they are really bad. Not that any team in a league has an OL that blows the other team off the ball (maybe Indy?), but this OL is far from average.  On pass protection, half the time they give Allen the 2-3 seconds he needs before he takes off by himself...the other half of the time someone is in his face before he finishes his dropback.  And run blocking....they have gone from one of the best to one of the worst. This OL is not slightly below average, they are bad.

The notion that Allen is running for his life the moment ball is snapped on every pass play is greatly exaggerated at this forum.

 

There are many passing plays where Allen has a good amount of time.

 

What I see way too often is Josh looking downfield, looking...looking....looking....deciding he doesn't like anything he sees, and then taking off running.  Reminds me of Tyrod.

 

Almost all of the time the camera does not show what is going on downfield so you have no way to know what he is looking at, what he is missing, if everyone is covered or not, etc.

 

Allen has a lot of trouble reading defenses and figuring out where to go with the ball.

 

That accounts for his scrambling around at least as much as the O line breaking down in pass protection.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

He made several nice touch throws today. 

 

In all seriousness I don't remembering him making any. Most of his better passes were bullets off play action. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

In all seriousness I don't remembering him making any. Most of his better passes were bullets off play action. 

 

There was a nice touch pass to one of the RB's out of the backfield.  A couple of his shorter sideline throws had nice touch as well.  He had one dead duck of a throw that he tried to make to a RB standing 5 yards away from him.  This is what we'll have to learn to live with - 1 or 2 of these types of throws.  The trade off will be a couple of 20 yard runs on 3rd & 10. 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

In all seriousness I don't remembering him making any. Most of his better passes were bullets off play action. 

Confirmation bias on your part.  He missed a couple and made a couple.  It's an area he can improve upon.  He also has skills that are hard to find elsewhere.  But it's more fun to focus on the negative isn't it?

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Confirmation bias on your part.  He missed a couple and made a couple.  It's an area he can improve upon.  He also has skills that are hard to find elsewhere.  But it's more fun to focus on the negative isn't it?

Just like him saying the pass to clay was at his ankles. That’s a complete fabrication to push a narrative. 

 

 

and while we’re at it. How many times are people gonna have to excuse a clay drop with the standard “he should have caught it but it could have been a better pass” before it’s actually just clays fault? 

 

I saw 2 different people say this today and handful of others last week after his drop lost the game.... I remember a drop against the jets last year at the endzone that got picked off and people saying the same thing.

 

maybe the dude just freaking sucks when he needs to come up big. 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Just like him saying the pass to clay was at his ankles. That’s a complete fabrication to push a narrative. 

 

 

and while we’re at it. How many times are people gonna have to excuse a clay drop with the standard “he should have caught it but it could have been a better pass” before it’s actually just clays fault? 

 

I saw 2 different people say this today and handful of others last week after his drop lost the game.... I remember a drop against the jets last year at the endzone that got picked off and people saying the same thing.

 

maybe the dude just freaking sucks when he needs to come up big. 

 

 

Clay is disappointing.  I hope he is not on the roster next year.  And Allen does need to work on some of the touch throws.  Why though some choose to only focus on negatives is mind boggling.  He has some skills that are rare.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Clay is disappointing.  I hope he is not on the roster next year.  And Allen does need to work on some of the touch throws.  Why though some choose to only focus on negatives is mind boggling.  He has some skills that are rare.

There are plenty of very good qb’s tossing up “area code” type passes weekly.... their wr’s and te’s reward them for taking those chances WEEKLY. 

 

Why on earth, when it comes to our qb, do the passes need to be perfect game in and game out for him to not get crucified by characters like rober? It’s comical

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I note again the crap about accuracy based on completion percentage.  He was 18/36 or 50%.  He had at least four throwaways and had at least 2-3 where he hit guys right in the numbers and they dropped the ball.  So let's take 6 away.  Now it's 18/30 or the magic 60%.

 

He missed a couple throws.  I don't recall seeing him miss by yards as was stated in the OP.  Coulplr short dump offs he has to throw better.  The pick across the field was a typical dumb rookie mistake.  

It's not worth the effort. There are certain posters on this board who will carry on the narrative of Allen not just being inaccurate, but inaccurate in such a way that you would think he could barely keep a pass in the field of play.

Edited December 10, 2018 by billsfan1959

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Experience has nothing to do with missing easy throws. You can't miss wide open receivers at the NFL level.

 

I disagree with both statements. Every QB in the NFL misses wide open receivers. And I don't know that Allen was missing a bunch of open guys today. The only passes I remember as being totally inaccurate were a dump off he threw at the RB's ankles - he does that too often right now - and a pass to McKenzie that was high but he still got his hands on it. I'm sure there's 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting. Let's put it this way, there were more drops from the receivers than there were inaccurate passes. And more breakdowns from the offensive line than both of those problems combined. I'm not expecting Allen to become super precise with his ball placement, but I do expect that we can improve the blocking and receiving which in turn will make our offense more productive. And I expect him to not throw that dumb interception again. He knows that was stupid.

 

To me it's simple. With a disaster of an offense around him and very little help from other sides of the ball he put up 23 points. I'm satisfied with that right now, of course he has to keep improving next season. His completion percentage was low but his completions averaged 11.4 yards. I think we will just have to get used to this style of play. He will never be a consistent 65% passer but he will move the chains and score points with his pure playmaking ability.

[jrober38]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

There was a nice touch pass to one of the RB's out of the backfield.  A couple of his shorter sideline throws had nice touch as well.  He had one dead duck of a throw that he tried to make to a RB standing 5 yards away from him.  This is what we'll have to learn to live with - 1 or 2 of these types of throws.  The trade off will be a couple of 20 yard runs on 3rd & 10. 

 

I just rewatched the Clay drop. 

 

He's running a post route which gets on him a bit faster than he expected, and he reaches out his arms trying to pluck the ball below his waist, which while running up the field is a tough catch to make as he's initially looking for the ball over his shoulder and it comes in lower than expected. 

 

Try it. Imagine you're looking for a ball over your shoulder, and then imagine the ball is thrown below your waist. That's not a natural catch position. 

 

Should the ball have been caught? Yup. 

 

Should the ball have been thrown better? Absolutely. 

 

The issue is that even if caught, Clay is going to the ground, negating any run after catch because the ball is too low. It's an over the shoulder throw off play action that Allen needs to drop in bucket, and because there's no air under the ball Clay has to adjust his arm placement and winds up reaching down for the ball and dropping it.

 

It's an easy throw that Allen needs to make. Clay is literally wide open with no defender covering him and the pocket is totally clean. 

[HOUSE]

Virgil, I need these thoughts in order next time, its giving me Lupus

[dubs]

3 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

Get used to it!  This will be Josh Allen his entire NFL career.

 

 

Its almost like no other QBs miss open receiver or throw INTs, ever. 

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I disagree with both statements. Every QB in the NFL misses wide open receivers. And I don't know that Allen was missing a bunch of open guys today. The only passes I remember as being totally inaccurate were a dump off he threw at the RB's ankles - he does that too often right now - and a pass to McKenzie that was high but he still got his hands on it. I'm sure there's 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting. Let's put it this way, there were more drops from the receivers than there were inaccurate passes. And more breakdowns from the offensive line than both of those problems combined. I'm not expecting Allen to become super precise with his ball placement, but I do expect that we can improve the blocking and receiving which in turn will make our offense more productive. And I expect him to not throw that dumb interception again. He knows that was stupid.

 

To me it's simple. With a disaster of an offense around him and very little help from other sides of the ball he put up 23 points. I'm satisfied with that right now, of course he has to keep improving next season. His completion percentage was low but his completions averaged 11.4 yards. I think we will just have to get used to this style of play. He will never be a consistent 65% passer but he will move the chains and score points with his pure playmaking ability.

 

Big Ben made countless atrocious throws today.   

 

That guy is on a crusade and can’t be trusted to make valid points on JA.